TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN

[DeasVail]

Sure! What would you like to talk about?

[Ankamius]

are scum necessarily proactive though?

I'm pretty certain that Volpe is town, just kinda hitting the overly paranoid town that tends to drown out the game
nomnomnom is pretty firmly in her townrange I think

there's not a crazy amount of people that are being very proactive about the game otherwise unless you're partially referring to people that are more midrange

chenn maybe?

Ankamius

Volpe14/Farkran/nomnomnom

DeasVail/

Flavor Leaf

/davesaz/

Almost50

Gammagooey/MariaR/chennisden/GuyInFreezer
Vex Vience/Volxen/kuribo/Dr Easy Bake
Elements/EspressoPatronum

I'm not budging on these reads right away

I can maybe be convinced on davesaz or deasvail, but I haven't seen any real reason to think I'm wrong on davesaz based on what's been posted so far; deasvail more because I don't actually understand his playstyle like I do the others (and in farkran's case, I think he fits enough of the general mold I have for logic styled players that I'm ok being confident in it for now)

everyone on the line below that I'm open to being wrong on

next one is null line

elements and EP are weak scumreads

are scum necessarily proactive though?

I'm pretty certain that Volpe is town, just kinda hitting the overly paranoid town that tends to drown out the game
nomnomnom is pretty firmly in her townrange I think

there's not a crazy amount of people that are being very proactive about the game otherwise unless you're partially referring to people that are more midrange

Apparently, Volpe is good scum, I’ve never seen it, though. I can fake paranoia better than I can show real paranoia. I didn’t like the early parts of Flavor vs Volpe and there’s a part of me that thinks his death tunnel was completely fake, but I’ve backed off from that because most people seem to think he’s town, so I’m just kinda slightly lean towning volpe from it for now.

Volpe snowed me completely on baton pass, but I don't see the same Volpe there as I do here

namely the tone is very different this game

I'm actually reasonably confident that the major conflicts are either TvT or irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

it's more productive to look on the outliers for that and see who's working the sides of it than anything

this reminds me that chenn mentioned stuff about this that would indicate town although I'd need to double check to lock that

if the pieces are falling into place properly, GIF/Deas/Gamma/'lurkers'/EP/elements should probably have the scumteam

I'm struggling to see most of the other players fitting into this right now

Anyway here's my read until the aforementioned re-evaluation. I will only list whether I think they're town or not, "not" being null - scum range. Strength of townread not included on purpose.

Ankamius - T

Dr Easy Bake -

Flavor Leaf -

davesaz - T

chennisden -

Vex Vience - T
Volxen -

MariaR -

Gammagooey - T
DeasVail -
kuribo - Just wanna call this T for absolutely no reason at all tbh.
GuyInFreezer - T
Elements -

Volpe14 - T

EspressoPatronum -

Almost50 - T

Farkran - T

nomnomnom -

I'm not entirely sure what to make of this

GIF is a high value flip I think, although I necessarily believe it is much higher value as a nightkill than a lynch if it's early enough

but this is something that should be gone back to if GIF ever flips scum

Why do you town read A50?

I'm not as confident I can read him as before, but I don't think I'm entirely wrong that he can be read based on a combination of what he talks about and how he talks about it

and I'm seeing generally good takes with the impression that he believes what he's saying

that's good enough for me on D1

what do you think of this general take of the game?

or even really what's confusing about it since it's very rare that I explain thoughts like these correctly on the first try

[Ankamius]

I'm not sure how to take Farkran being dead yet

I have theories, but it takes more to really be sure about any of them

[DeasVail]

I like most of your quoted posts from a theory standpoint, except the one about the value of a GiF lynch. I don't really think in those terms.

But even though it attracted some controversy at the time, I liked your point about looking on the sidelines in 1856, and I don't have an issue with a reads list that follows a post count trend.

I don't find anything about you to be overwhelmingly town, but I generally like the content of your posts, even if a lot of it is not incredibly AI to me.

[Ankamius]

alright, neat, we're somewhat on the same page at least

does anyone in particular stand out as being on the sidelines to you? I didn't really have an opportunity to go digging with all the everything going on yesterday and I took the night phase to relax from mafia a bit, so I'm fuzzy on details

[DeasVail]

There are some people that you could argue as being on the sidelines (such as Gamma and Kuribo), that I think are more likely town.

In a lot of ways I do feel like A50 is an active linesman. And Espresso a less active linesman.

[Ankamius]

ok volxen

did you really find that one post the only thing to respond to after reading through the entire thread?

[EspressoPatronum]

Commuter Lynch Preference

Flavor: Volpe, GIF, NomNom
A50: Volpe, GIF, Nomnom
Ankamius: GIF, Nomnom, Volpe
EP: nomnom, GiF, Volpe

[Ankamius]

I don't really think that lynching in that list is particularly useful in the first place but whatever gets you guys off I guess

[Vex Vience]

dv, why are you now being active, compared to yesterday?

[EspressoPatronum]

I think it would be useful for us to out who is in a hood with each other.

Assuming scum have a separate PT to talk as a team, town is at a huge information disparity in this game compared to normal games.

I - Scum's Information

Any given hood containing scum gives the entire scum team the following information:
1. Which players are part of that hood
2. The collective power for that hood
3. The survivor power for that hood
4. The flavour name for that hood (eg. Composer)
Scum has this information on however many hoods the scum team is spread throughout.

Even though they have limited information about hoods containing no scum, they still know every player who is in an all-town hood.

Given that a night power reveals information about a hood's power, it is possible for scum to gain information about non-scum hoods.

II - Town's Information

Any given town member knows the 4 hood items above (players/power/survivor/flavour) only as it relates to their individual slot.

Town also does not know any of the all-town hoods.

III - Equalizing the Disparity is Good

In a normal game, the information disparity is usually limited to scum knowing their teammates. In this game, scum knows some/many of our collective + survivor PRs.

We need to share some information to help correct the disparity. While it may not be useful immediately, knowing more about the hoods will allow us to hold people accountable for future powers. I've seen a few people muse over distribution in specific hoods (eg. the commuter hood), so it could perhaps help in that area as well.

Group distribution is the right information to out. Scum already knows almost all of the group distribution, so revealing this will give scum limited information. At the same, it gives town a lot more information than it currently has. Group distribution is also the least revealing of the above factors, allowing all-town hoods to remain relatively secret (wrt powers, at least). Further, it will give us an easier solve later in the game. Information roles such as the night revealing role will allow us to piece together the other factors over time.

[EspressoPatronum]

TL;DR knowing hood members might help us out in the long run. Sharing this info is low risk because scum already knows the information anyway.

[Ankamius]

I don't want my hood's abilities to be outed

sorry

[EspressoPatronum]

If start the ball rolling, but FL already outed us yesterday.

[EspressoPatronum]

I don't want my hood's abilities to be outed

sorry

You didn't read my post

[Ankamius]

I think enough has been said about the neighborhoods in general

[EspressoPatronum]

I think enough has been said about the neighborhoods in general

Why do you think this?

[Ankamius]

because this is the first step in micromanaging the mechanics of the game

and I know this playerlist well enough to fully believe that if this first step is taken, then it's going to be forced through all the way to the end.

and I'd really rather not play to try to maximize potential of the roles when there's a very real possibility that it will just blow up in our faces instead and leave us with no use of basically any of them

we'd be sacrificing too much for ~M~A~Y~B~E~ getting some use out of our PRs, and honestly beyond that I don't think town is in a position where we are able to properly use whatever we have even if we can manage to get use of them properly

[Ankamius]

essentially

I have a nasty feeling that the scumteam would get a lot better use out of all this shit than town would, and I fully believe town would just barge through with forcing the issue anyways

[EspressoPatronum]

essentially

I have a nasty feeling that the scumteam would get a lot better use out of all this shit than town would, and I fully believe town would just barge through with forcing the issue anyways

Right, but the scum team probably knows the distribution of most hoods already.

If you give me a reason to believe scum doesn't have a team PT, then I could perhaps get on board with your thoughts.

[EspressoPatronum]

because this is the first step in micromanaging the mechanics of the game

and I know this playerlist well enough to fully believe that if this first step is taken, then it's going to be forced through all the way to the end.

and I'd really rather not play to try to maximize potential of the roles when there's a very real possibility that it will just blow up in our faces instead and leave us with no use of basically any of them

we'd be sacrificing too much for ~M~A~Y~B~E~ getting some use out of our PRs, and honestly beyond that I don't think town is in a position where we are able to properly use whatever we have even if we can manage to get use of them properly

I'm not sure I really buy the floodgates argument here. You're saying that we shouldn't reveal group distribution information because it will inevitably lead to a micromanaging game.

Who, specifically, would make this a micromanaging game?

Aside from your micromanaging argument, how does revealing group distribution hurt town?

[EspressoPatronum]

I'm even saying it could be helpful, but that isn't necessary for my argument.

If it doesn't hurt town and scum likely know it already, we should do it.

[Vex Vience]

outing hood powers are bad. outing neighbors is ok, ig? i mean, it could possibly help nail down reads from people, and it would get dialogue about them open, but like, what incentive does scum have to shoot the all-town hoods, knowing it’ll give them their last-man standing? wouldn’t scum want to shoot into their own hoods for it?

based on the night reveal, let’s assume the writers are all town. scum knows that group is all town and when there’s only one left, they become a vigi. that’s bad for scum. someone can easily shoot and kill them at that point. whereas, if the hood has scum in it, wouldnt they want to shoot the others in the hood—ignoring the all-town hoods—to get the extra nk?

[Vex Vience]

i see your logic behind it, somewhat, ep. but it doesn’t really make that much sense ultimately. i dont see the motive scum has to shoot all-town to give them their last-man standing, when scum would wanna take it from their own hoods.

[Vex Vience]

also like, did nobody read the sample pms? it literally states scum have a factional chat.