Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[Eddie Cane]

pagetop

VOTE: Pops
VOTE: Krazy
VOTE: Pops

[Eddie Cane]

I think Krazy is surprisingly scummy for how little he has been wagoned. He keeps disappearing and reappearing. I'm not very confident about reading him and haven't myself been pushing him because when I played town with him he was super bleh day 1 and obvtowned day 3. But I think that slot is really creepy. Ed asked me to think about the universe where Eddie is IC and I think in that universe it seems even weirder that Krazy is just always there.
DDL is like Krazy lite and has felt really off. Starting off sheeping me seemed like it could be both !hims but more like scum!him and nothing's really gotten super better. Similar to Krazy I trust him to be readable later. But he hasn't been great. I've taken note of how DDL hasn't really gotten teased for having a derpy contribution level to the game the way Elsa has when my gut likes Elsa more so far.
I really don't know whether Pine is scum, I lean town and I don't know if it's pocketing. I kind of don't hate the wagon in the sense that I think it has information and NaCl wagon does not, I don't know what silly person suggested wagoning Elsa, but that also definitely does not.
NaCl is like the definition of a boring wagon I've kind of gone into it about how I feel about that player.
I think that's all the wagons that have ever been popular

pedit: Pine flipped preferences this year, he's stated as such openly
pedit: I assumed everyone who rolled scum would say "I rolled scum but I'm not going to say who my partners are". I'm pretty sure that's what I would do. None of my partners rolled scum so that didn't give me any data.

I think probably my biggest issue with Pops (personally, not in terms of scumminess) is her progression on myself and Krazy. Specifically, reconciling thinking Krazy is scum and having said multiple times she was mulling my slot over, reconsidering, etc, but never actually doing that at all with vote or otherwise. Dunno. Especially with her teammate supposedly having me as a town read, but that not translating into anything.

[Amrun]

Really sorry about just vanishing, everyone. I ran into some RL stuff I needed to deal with.

If you are insinuating that it was a townslip, why did you ask the question underlined there?

So my first thought when I say that post was that it was a townslip, but I asked the question so I could get clarification for how Nancy actually came to the incorrect assumption there were 2 mafia, to check for a possible fabrication of a townslip. I'm pretty sure it's a townslip, but do you want to answer this, Nancy?

@NaCi, why in 1544 did Hectic’s response in 1435 ping you? Yes, while I initially did misinterpret his post as shade, it clearly wasn’t, so I really don’t understand your issue with it and why it would negatively affect your read on Hectic.

The question felt bad because it's not something that would ever get an answer that would prove something one way or the other. Hectic, I know that you'd say that, but I was asking why you'd ask it in such a way. Because both anyone, town or scum would just realize (or pretend) that they were handling the setup incorrectly and pointing out that felt like it was weakly shading things to be a scumslip. Also, just pointing out the slip beforehand makes it harder to get an answer that is actually useful.

I disagree with her read on Eddie. I think she was too quick to go after him over revealing the neighbourhood. I think it's far more likely that Eddie was irritated and revealed it rather than him being too careless and letting it slip. I don't think it's a very good reason to be townreading her and scumreading Eddie.

I do completely agree with her reasoning there though, because I have personal experience of catching scum using that exact same logic where being right is more important than them over figuring out alignments, Eddie's tone and nature this game has reeked of town otherwise though.
Regarding Pops, I initially read her outrage as genuine, but it is the first time I've ever seen such a strong reaction from her, but I've played with town and scum her, so I don't know if that's AI for her. If someone could weigh in on that.

I don't see how you found that Eddie did that because he wanted to be right. Like there is no incentive to reveal it for either scum or town and it felt like more of a natural reaction to me. Although I'm not really feeling my SR on you anymore, it probably just stuck out due to recency.

Now we have the hectic wagon. His alignment isnt known yet but we have 2 conditions. One he is scum and one he is town.

Now what woudl teh comp of both wagons be in each condition

If he is town one of:

Pine, pisskop, Nancy Drew 39, DrDolittle, OkaPoka, titus, elsa

is almost certianly scum.

But if he is scum would a wagon of that size really be all town this early. So just as likely that atleast one is scum

But would more be one one or the other and more importantly which one.

Um, yes, but that wagon plus Hectic is more than half the players. Do you think that there would be more than 1 scum on there if Hectic is town?

Pretty sure Bob is town.

Also bob is probably town.

@Amrun, @Hectic,
Are this due to Bob's most recent posts (well at that time)? Because to me it felt like he put up a bunch of wagons and didn't actually comment on anything, then said at least one person out of this huge wagon is scum. I was liking him more beforehand, but those posts felt like they were a whole bunch of dry, empty bread in disguise.

I actually have no idea what I could possibly do to rerail the game though. Eddie is just openly admitting to wagoning a player he thinks is less likely to flip scum, in a way the conspicuously aligns with not wanting his neighbor to actually become dead and incriminate him and/or not wanting to continue a dialogue with that neighbor when he's currently winning public opinion and only has it to lose. Like he can clearly just do what he wants now. Ali told me in discord something about how e catches scum that'd I'd never heard before, e said, "you often see with scum, spending a certain amount of time acting a certain way [this is paraphrase by the way even though I used the quote character, no banns Micc], doing the things that would get them townread, trying really hard. Then they get townread. And there is this flick of the switch where they realize they don't have to do it anymore. And they change and do the things they want to do. That's when you can catch them." E said he saw Dannflor doing that. The thing Ali hasn't exactly explained to me is how you work with that if you didn't roll vig, because Dannflor was never actually lynched. So now I'm just full of despair. I think Eddie may have already endgamed the 15p.

Point 1 (to the thread)

This is not a townie wall of words. Remotely.

Point 2 (to Pops)

It is my game, but I have 3 town voices I can dialogue with. I made the judgment call to place my vote on Krazy, factoring in their stated confidence vs my own. If that read ends up being wrong, I will be at fault, not them; part of my read is considering their reads. I think a lot of what forum players miss is that mafia is a

team game

, not you + a bunch of fuckos you have to persuade vs some scum. This is just posturing on your part.

I’m kind of not liking how Pops has been ignoring evidence that supports team reads are believable. Like I totally believe your team said exactly what you said they did and it totally lines up with what I’d expect from them thinking along a townie mindset.

Another reason why I believe Titus is town here, because I freaking know Math.

I disagree very strongly on this, I think team reads are entirely NAI. Anyone can choose to withhold their role pm (or lie about it) from their teammates and have them be thinking they're a different role from what they actually are.

Please don't call me "kid" or any other noun that doesn't describe me.

I think my vote is on Amrun right now, it'd be about the same as if it was on Eddie. Moving it doesn't matter, people changing their minds would matter more than the integers next to the names.

Why is Amrun scum?

Amrun is willing to lynch basically anybody. I can't remember a time she's come to this thread and said anything in the vein of "X seems like the hot wagon right now, but Y has higher probability to flip scum and serves my wincon and we should move to it".

I've seen players like Titus have that attitude as town and that's probably the kind of Titus we have here, but my interpretation of her timings and justifications leans towards this being the scummy wine-in-front interest in wagons that well slide into hammer quickly and get the first mislynch before this game gets re-paradigmed to have some scum in the consensus scumreads.

Amrun is down for every wagon, even ones that seem diametrically opposed in various ways, never convinces me that she's solving with the way she discusses her reads, and I still think the typo thing is at least a little scummy.

Her entire body of play seems like sheep scum very happy with the way this day is going to me.

If pops flips scum Amrun is a very strong townread for me. I don't see them going after each other like that as S/S. But I otherwise agree with the case, I do have the same feeling.

I'm keeping this here but I first did a vote on pops and then changed my mind on it. I still agree with it but I need the part below answered before I decide to vote first.

I'm feeling a bit more confident in things. (Vote: Pops I changed my mind on) even if she's not scum this is an informative wagon, but her posts are feeling more and more like scum-pops to me.
If pops flips scum, then Hectic is a likely partner. Amrun is likely town, Eddie certainly town.
If pops flips town, then Amrun is likely scum. Hectic is probably town.

I said he would endgame me, and he quoted me saying he would endgame me and said "get fucked kid"

that is bragging about endgaming me

I think this is the most important post in the thread. Pops, Eddie, can you both tell me which one of Pops's posts in this thread was the next one she made after this was said in your hood? (I'm pretty sure this is within the rules but someone please stop this otherwise).

Also, the Pine wagon is bad because Pine's town.

@Amrun, @Hectic,
Are this due to Bob's most recent posts (well at that time)? Because to me it felt like he put up a bunch of wagons and didn't actually comment on anything, then said at least one person out of this huge wagon is scum. I was liking him more beforehand, but those posts felt like they were a whole bunch of dry, empty bread in disguise.

The above was from Pine.

My friend, all of bob’s posts sound like dry bread in disguise, always. Does that really make the bread bag empty? The bread bag is not empty here. It’s like hearty whole wheat bread with oats and pumpkin seeds and stuff. If the bread bag was empty, that would be when bob is scum.

And ignoring the content of his posts because they’re walls with typos and make your eyes glaze over is a mistake. When he’s town, he’s sharp.


I don’t like, and I don’t understand, this thought that you think pops is scummy, but it pops flips town, then I’m scum. I just had a game where scum set me up just like that and was mislynched in LyLo over it.

Being wrong doesn’t make someone scum, especially when it’s something you yourself agree with. ?!?

And pops posting lately has been BETTEr, not worse.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

The only ones who have suggested that are Pops, most significantly and to a much lesser extent now, NaCi. I think if you know the teammates who are making the reads, you can totally tell if they’re real or fake and very probably get a pretty good idea if the teammates are advocating for a town or scum agenda.

That’s one of the reasons I hard townread you because I’m extremely familiar with your teammates and I know exactly how they think and it was blatantly obvious to me that those reads were coming from a town mindset. Whether or not I agree with them or not, the jury’s still out on that.

[Amrun]

GDI I didn’t mean to quote that whole thing.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Wut? and I totally agreed with that, does that make me scum too?

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Wut? and I totally agreed with that, does that make me scum too?

(he's not town)

[Hectic]

@NaCl: I've seen him do a very similar type of VCA as town in a kinda recent large game. He just feels incredibly similar here, and his pushes and behaviour are all genuine imo.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Sure. I will reply to this because I kind of want to soapbox about it anyways.

You are playing like a fucking moron if you do not tell your team your role pm. They are your team. They are there to help, coach, advise, whatever. That's the whole point of TEAM mafia, this isn't like MU champs where you play individually. Not telling them your team limits their ability to help you. The advantage is, what, they can give you "genuine townie reads"? In exchange for not getting their support about kill decisions, PR reads, thread decisions, directions to push, and still getting advice about who to push. And whatever else you ask. I dunno, I haven't had a teammate roll scum in team mafia for the second year in a row so I haven't had to experience it, but yea. The first thing I did in my chat was get pinged saying they got their roles, I checked MS, Micc had sent mine, I screenshotted it to them and bitched about being town in such an easy setup for scum. There was no "wait, what if I tell them I'm town and get their reads to pocket people" or other similar stupid ass thought process.

Ignoring that

, it is not scummy to philosophically disagree. It is scummy to push this as an "obvious scum post" when its clearly a fucking theory post which scum rarely lie about anyways. You are so fucking lucky NSG and Hito do not have a voice in this game and I don't care to case you.

@Krazy I want tr you but in what alternate universe, does this ever qualify as a scum post? *smdh*

[Hectic]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

Second obvious scum post of this page but I guess people have stopped caring

Yeah, how is this an obvious scum post?

[Krazy]

No because you haven't built half your iso around getting people to read your teammates

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

I don't know one of my teammates alignments because I had no intention of reading it. In any case it probably depends on the team so this idea it's unthinkable is eddie just using more unrealistic ATE

But you do you Nancy

[Krazy]

Because he's spent half the game selling the idea that if ank is approaching the game like he's town then he's town, and he's trying 5o ad hominem his way out of anyone disagreeing

[Nancy Drew 39]

@NaCl: I've seen him do a very similar type of VCA as town in a kinda recent large game. He just feels incredibly similar here, and his pushes and behaviour are all genuine imo.

Who are you referencing here?

[Eddie Cane]

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

like you guys are looking at this and still thinking krazy is town? seriously?

[Krazy]

The idea that he actually thinks everyone playing team mafia knows the alignment of everyone else on their team does not at all account for the wide variety of playstyles and dispositions on this site, and he only argues it like that for self-serving reasons

[Krazy]

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

like you guys are looking at this and still thinking krazy is town? seriously?

Do you believe in ate after ate?

[Hectic]

Because he's spent half the game selling the idea that if ank is approaching the game like he's town then he's town, and he's trying 5o ad hominem his way out of anyone disagreeing

This makes some more sense actually.

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

But not this, I found myself agreeing with a lot of the reasons Eddie put in that other post.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm very close to BoP voting Krazy, by the way. Just speaking to my team about it.

[Something_Smart]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

I didn't, and I am serious.

I probably will at some point though.

It's advantageous in the same way that not reading your role PM is advantageous (and therefore not allowed).

[Titus]

Hmph, has everyone made up their minds here? Am I the only slow thinker?

[Hectic]

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

like you guys are looking at this and still thinking krazy is town? seriously?

Do you believe in ate after ate?

Idk, Krazy. At first, you were uncertain about him and were leaning town, but now you're regarding basically every action of his as scummy. Is this because his play got severely worse overall, or is scum!you shifting your perception? Could also be town tunnelling of course.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No because you haven't built half your iso around getting people to read your teammates

Give me one reason that scum eddie wouldn't just tell his team he's town no matter what? What upside is there to telling a team of strong town players you're scum?

I don't know one of my teammates alignments because I had no intention of reading it.

In any case it probably depends on the team so this idea it's unthinkable is eddie just using more unrealistic ATE

But you do you Nancy

Now you are pushing this ridiculous theory too? Serious question, does anyone here besides Pops, NaCi, Krazy thinks this even remotely makes even an iota of sense?

How in the actual fuck do you not know any of your team members’ alignment in a game if fucking TEAM mafia?

[Something_Smart]

Hmph, has everyone made up their minds here? Am I the only slow thinker?

I'm a slow thinker.

Just because I'm voting pops doesn't mean I've made up my mind about anyone else.

[Hectic]

They both make good arguments tbh, this is pretty fun.

[Eddie Cane]

I find the notion that people didnt auto tell their team their role hilarious. I still cant tell if people are being serious about that.

I didn't, and I am serious.

I probably will at some point though.

It's advantageous in the same way that not reading your role PM is advantageous (and therefore not allowed).

I think the only players not reading your role PM is advantageous for is players who are bad. The advantage yea is looking town cause you don't know what you are, but the disadvantage is you can't defend your scum mates and push agendas, so any reasonably skilled player would be disadvantaged by not knowing they're scum.

Theory though. Can you please comment on the game? My town read is slipping because of your lack of activity.