Team Mafia 2020: Open Setup - Game Over

[NaCl]

I don't get your post at all nacl. Can you just replace your post of Bob with hectic too tehn?

I agree that it can point to hectic as well, I think it applies less to him, as he felt more townread than bob was and could have tried to push himself one back down to just outside the lynch order, while Bob would probably not be able to do that. Also Hectic's posts yesterday regarding the doc gambit made me more suspicious of him. I don't really know if he was fishing for the response because he pretty much got the confirmation that I wasn't the doc in the first reply.

Like what I'm saying is that I think the Okapoka kill came from scum who were in a safe position but Bob probably needed to do something risky to live. Like right now everyone's going after me since S_S died, and I think I'd look worse if it had happened yesterday--and it would look bad for for him, if I'd been the doc. And if scum was being targeted, why not just try to kill one of us and get the other one lynched. It's a risky play but if they're going to be lynched like 90% anyways in the next little while, scum would have made the shot in there. And that bob was like everyone's top pick apart from Elsa, and I don't think Hectic was really as suspected by people as much.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm not going after you for SS dying, for what it's worth. Or anything NKA related (except minorly pine scumreading you)

[bob3141]

Votecount 2.10

Elsa Jay (4) -

unwnd, Hectic, OkaPoka, pisskop

pisskop (4) -

DrDolittle, Nancy Drew 39, bob3141, NaCl

NaCl (2) -

Titus, Elsa Jay

unwnd (1) -

Amrun

Not Voting (2) -

Something_Smart, Eddie Cane

With 13 players alive it takes 7 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2020-01-28 02:10:00).

VOTE: NaCl

We know scum realistically shouldn't care because these are TvT wagons. Unwnd scum is already on Elsa, making it highly unlikely the partner is.

I'm supposing Amrun is not likely to bus, given the situation.

Everyone else off the two major wagon is high probably town or conftown.

That leaves DDL, Nancy, Bob and NaCl.

I don't care to vote Nancy or DDL.

4 players wagons have a high chance of having atleast one scum on them. esp in my opinion when the 2 opposing wagons are town town. You see one scum push one and another teh other.


Make sure you kill nacl before lylo.


hectics responses to questions today were good whiel nacl are just bad. and just look like positioning

VOTE: nacl

[bob3141]

you don't think hectic's most recent posts are shit?

I think Hectic's posts haven't been too great but there are times where I see a move that I think scum-Hectic would make but Hectic is specifically not making those actions. The wagon is generally pretty badly done. Although if he is scum then I think pops is more likely to be town due to 968.

Nancy you always have an expectation of people treating you as obvtown and I'm hoping that if even your teammates can't explain why you are obvtown you will stop beating our heads over not locking you town.

Idk what to say nacl if you don't like what I've had to say then unlucky

Fine. VOTE: Okapoka Farkran says your posting doesn't have any depth to it ( mostly agree) and whenever I try and get a better grip on your thought process you clearly don't want to help me with that.

@NACL why aren't you voting? Too salty? (Sorry couldn't resist the pun.)

See my previous response to Krazy, same thing.

this is very good actually

i want

<elsa,nacl,ddl,bob,amrun> to take sides and comment on this

Okay, so pops vs Eddie, I don't think outing the neighborhood makes Eddie scum. Like, I get that Eddie can do it if he's careless scum but pops' argument doesn't make sense since he can also do it if he's annoyed town and I don't see why pops is reading into it in that way. It feels forced.
I initially liked pops for her earlier play because it didn't feel like it was scum-her and I think I actually know how she is as scum, unlike most people here. But the vote on Eddie feels like a reach.


Regarding the Hectic wagon, I'm not super opposed to it, but I disagree with the reasoning behind it. Mostly for Nancy's issue. Because from what I'm reading from Hectic's posts, he doesn't seem to understand the issue with the question he was asking. Nancy, do you think he's faking that he doesn't understand? I think it would be easier for scum to just say, "oops, I didn't realize" and then stop pushing on it instead of continuing to try talking to you.

This whoooole post sets off alarms. Salt is undermining a near-universally Townread player while weakly affirming the wagon (that that player) is on. There's a whole lot of unnatural solviness (yes I just made up a word) there. "I don't disagree with your vote, but let me now try to build a case against one of the people on that wagon" is a classic scum misdirect-while-hedging play.

That's nice and all, but that doesn't refute what I'm saying. Like, I'm specifically saying that I don't see scum motivation in Hectic's actions. I don't think Hectic has done a single thing worth defending him for, I just think that the wagon is mixed full of people with bad reasons like you and ND, and scum who is going along for the ride (Okapoka, far less sure on Pisskop). If Hectic does flips scum, yeah, sure, I'll have to change. And my case on Okapoka has nothing to do with the Hectic wagon.

Like are you trying to ignore my point? Unless your reasons have changed on Hectic, I still don't think that most of the stuff people are talking about are scummy.

Nancy you always have an expectation of people treating you as obvtown and I'm hoping that if even your teammates can't explain why you are obvtown you will stop beating our heads over not locking you town.

Idk what to say nacl if you don't like what I've had to say then unlucky

Fine. VOTE: Okapoka Farkran says your posting doesn't have any depth to it ( mostly agree) and whenever I try and get a better grip on your thought process you clearly don't want to help me with that.

@NACL why aren't you voting? Too salty? (Sorry couldn't resist the pun.)

See my previous response to Krazy, same thing.

this is very good actually

i want

<elsa,nacl,ddl,bob,amrun> to take sides and comment on this

Okay, so pops vs Eddie, I don't think outing the neighborhood makes Eddie scum. Like, I get that Eddie can do it if he's careless scum but pops' argument doesn't make sense since he can also do it if he's annoyed town and I don't see why pops is reading into it in that way. It feels forced.
I initially liked pops for her earlier play because it didn't feel like it was scum-her and I think I actually know how she is as scum, unlike most people here. But the vote on Eddie feels like a reach.


Regarding the Hectic wagon, I'm not super opposed to it, but I disagree with the reasoning behind it. Mostly for Nancy's issue. Because from what I'm reading from Hectic's posts, he doesn't seem to understand the issue with the question he was asking. Nancy, do you think he's faking that he doesn't understand? I think it would be easier for scum to just say, "oops, I didn't realize" and then stop pushing on it instead of continuing to try talking to you.

It’s definitely possible but that isn’t why I’m voting him but when I tell someone that I’m concerned that answering something could be antitown, I don’t know why they don’t back off either. One thing is clear. Hectic and Pine are never buddies here.

However, why Oka? He is so obviously town. This vote may possibly be town indicative for you however, since there’s pretty much no chance we’re flipping Oka today.

1. I don't think that setup discussion is alignment indicative most of the time which is his oldest posts.
2. He's posting a lot of opinions but isn't really backing them up. Too many of his posts are like "I think X" and is missing the "I think X because _". He goes on about Krazy scum and when I try to push deeper on it, he abandons the read. And the entire time I've been trying to get a better understanding of his thoughts, he's been sidestepping my question. He was deliberately avoiding me advance my read on him.

notice the first bit. nacl is pushing a town pops due to her stance on hectic wagon. A player that later hinted scum did not want to be on hectics wagon. And he is using to push a town read on confirmed scum (after flip).

[Titus]

titus you omitted bob

I'm ok with a bob vote, due to a large gap in his scumhunting in earlier days. I prefer NaCl.

[DrDolittle]

this is l-1 btw

[Micc]

Votecount 5.02

NaCl (4) -

Eddie Cane, Hectic, Titus, bob3141

Hectic (1) -

Amrun

Not Voting (3) -

DrDolittle, NaCl, Nancy Drew 39

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 5 is in (expired on 2020-02-12 23:35:00).

[DrDolittle]

does anyone want to say anything else?

[DrDolittle]

VOTE: nacl
yolo

[Nancy Drew 39]

titus you omitted bob

I'm ok with a bob vote, due to a large gap in his scumhunting in earlier days. I prefer NaCl.

VOTE: nacl
yolo

So he’s already hammered. Hopefully the game ends today, if not I guess we vote bob tomorrow?

[Nancy Drew 39]

titus you omitted bob

I'm ok with a bob vote, due to a large gap in his scumhunting in earlier days. I prefer NaCl.

VOTE: nacl
yolo

So he’s already hammered. Hopefully the game ends today, if not I guess we vote bob tomorrow?

I’m not voting Hectic in any case, because I’m convinced he’s town.

[Micc]

Votecount 5.03

NaCl (5) -

Eddie Cane, Hectic, Titus, bob3141, DrDolittle

Hectic (1) -

Amrun

Not Voting (2) -

NaCl, Nancy Drew 39

With 8 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

[Micc]

NaCl has been lynched Day 5. She was a

Mafia Neighbor

.

The Town has achieved its win condition.

Eddie Cane

, a

Town Phone Operator Neighbor

, survives and wins.

Titus

, a

Town Neighbor

, survives and wins.

Nancy Drew 39

, a

Town Neighbor

, survives and wins.

DrDolittle

, a

Town Neighbor

, survives and wins.

Hectic

, a

Town Neighbor

, survives and wins.

Amrun

, a

Town Neighbor

, survives and wins.

bob3141

, a

Town Neighbor

, survives and wins.

Something_Smart

,

Elsa Jay

,

OkaPoka

,

Pine

and

pisskop

all win posthumously.

Congratulations to the Town for winning the TM2020 Open Setup!

[Micc]

Spoiler: Role List

Players:

Eddie Cane

, cancel food -

Town Phone Operator Neighbor III

Titus

, The Marauders -

Town Neighbor V

Something_Smart

, Wild Cards -

Town Indecisive Doctor

Elsa Jay

, Busboy Revolution -

Town Neighbor VI

popsofctown

, Quick Attack -

Mafia Neighbor III

OkaPoka

, Doomsday -

Town Neighbor I

Nancy Drew 39

, Derp Wolves -

Town Neighbor VI

DrDolittle

, SubOptimal Math -

Town Neighbor II

unwnd

Krazy , Ripple's Krazy Mistress Dunn -

Mafia Rolecop Neighbor I

Pine

, The Four Horseman -

Town Neighbor IV

Hectic

, Team "Team" Team -

Town Neighbor V

pisskop

, Tea Gathering Club -

Town Neighbor VII

bob3141

, Newb Kids on the Block -

Town Neighbor IV

Amrun

, You Over A Disproportionately Small Gap -

Town Neighbor VII

NaCl

, DFKN -

Mafia Neighbor II

Spoiler: Night Actions

Night 1 Actions:

Eddie Cane investigates Pine - Pine's neighbor is bob3141
Something_Smart protects Eddie Cane - Eddie Cane is protected
NaCl kills Pine - Pine flips Town Neighbor
unwnd rolecops Something_Smart - Something_Smart is an Indecisive Doctor

Night 2 Actions:

Eddie Cane investigates Elsa Jay - Elsa Jay's neighbor is Nancy Drew 39
Something_Smart protects DrDolittle - DrDolittle is protected
NaCl kills DrDolittle - fails because DrDolittle is protected

Night 3 Actions:

Eddie Cane investigates Something_Smart - receives NO RESULT
Something_Smart protects NaCl - NaCl is protected
NaCl kills OkaPoka - OkaPoka flips Town Neighbor

Night 4 Actions:

Eddie Cane investigates DrDolittle - DrDolittle is NaCl's neighbor
Something_Smart protects Amrun - Amrun is protected
NaCl kills Something_Smart - Something_Smart flips Town Indecisive Doctor

Private threads will be released upon the completion of Team Mafia 2020. A game survey will be distributed to players from this game within the next 24 hours to be used for possible TM2020 tiebreakers.

Thanks everyone for playing. I hope you enjoyed the game!

[Micc]

Mafia Thread
Titus & Hectic
pisskop & Amrun
Elsa Jay & Nancy Drew 39
DrDolittle & NaCl
OkaPoka & unwnd
Pine & bob3141
Eddie Cane & popsofctown

Thank you everyone for playing! This thread is now open for post game discussion.

[OkaPoka]

Micc i just want to say ur the goat mod

[Micc]

thank you for those kind words.

[Eddie Cane]

Micc is a phenomenal mod, and this was a very enjoyable game for me at least. I don't agree this is a townsided setup. Its basically mountainous with 2 ICs and where scum neighbors can pocket people.

[OkaPoka]

i think town wins like 80% of the time in this setup tbh

[Eddie Cane]

I disagree. I think because of how it played out, it looks that way. But it is close to mountainous. Mafia lost both 1v1s against neighbors. Only NaCl tried to be townie in his neighborhood, and he was the only scum that made it deep. I think you thinking that is results-oriented. I told my team this and did not state it in thread because I didn't need it to kill Pops, but a lot of my Pops scum read was from neighborhood stuff.

[OkaPoka]

Ehhh

I felt like this setup was townsided like 10 pages in mainly because as soon as town figures out to claim neighbors, scum have no room to make a gambit and we generate ics through lynching scum. Also NaCl was about to be the d3 or d4 lynch before ss did the gambit so i dont think nacl would have actually made it deep.

We just live in a townsided meta imo and we got handed a townsided setup. I think this setup requires a don corleone type of player for scum to win, like you need to be unlynchable levels good which is not a fair expectation to have as scum

[Eddie Cane]

I mean its basically mountainous, I just disagree conceptually. Scum don't need to make gambits, they need to not get lynched before their neighbors and they have 2 votes on their side. Or, they need to just not have either neighbor lynched.

[OkaPoka]

You think given 15 random people on ms.net this game would be close to 50/50?

[BBmolla]

I think the Phone Operator could go away.

I do think this is a bad sample also. But it is townsided due to number of mislynches I think.

[Eddie Cane]

PO could go away, agreed.

I think yes, close to 50/50.