Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Menalque]

the problem is that if you're town LL then you pushing me when I think I've been intensely townie ever since I repped in is something that scum like to do because if they don't have to burn a NK on me it's generally very useful for them

like I'm giving you a mild pass because you're a newbie, but by far the most obvious answer to you and scum!wooper trying to lynch me today is that scum!wooper is teamed with scum!you

so this gives me a much higher margin of error on those pushing me, and generally I need at least one other slot who I can trust to tell me if they think the push is good or bad faith. the problem here is that there are only about two slots I trust other than myself, and neither of them is particularly active or able to bounce ideas off me with them

I mean if you want to get into WIFOM,

I can just come out and tell you that I was so good at scumplay on my old site that oftentimes town lost at LYLO because they'd rather mislynch me and lose than lose to me as scum again.

You are not ever a nightkill target.

You are not ever "intensely townie ever since [you] repped in"

. There has been a majority to lynch you for several IRL days right now. I'm literally the one that advocated an extension to give my two scumreads time to post, because I'd rather take it slow and be certain.

Mafia always wants to lynch you because you are so clearly scummy

. Any mafia that night kills you is objectively bad. If you flip green, then pretty much every town in this game is collectively wrong and we can look back on the lynch to solve the game at LYLO.

Your analysis on scum!Lucky wanting to lynch you to save a nightkill is so objectively bad

that I can only see your play here as trying to mislead new players in

a way that takes advantage of it being a newbie game and is harmful to the growth of mafia

.

(1) oh, wonderful, you're one of those players. this is actually mildly frustrating because it makes me a bit less sure on scum!you -- I'd probably force through your lynch if I wasn't in this slot because I deal very badly with players who are (a) very arrogant (b) very wrong (c) incapable of acknowledging a or b

(2) I'm townie for anyone who wants to look bro, and idk where you're getting "there has been a majority to lynch you for several IRL days right now". like, there's been an openness to it, I don't think anyone has been calling for it hard other than you and wooper

(3) unless we lynch scum!wooper in which case I'm basically never getting mislynched. and seeing as that's the main alternative I'm pushing to my lynch, yes, scum have a massive incentive to Lynch me not NK me

(4) lmao

[Menalque]

the main reason I'm fighting so hard is because I know that towns tend to forget who the flipped town say to lynch but if you don't ignore me then lynch wooper/luciano tomorrow

[Menalque]

I think my thoughts are already there

Was asking for your thoughts on my post. Your response indicated that you did not mean to quote it and was responding to Wooper.

oooohhhhh, right, okay

yeah lemme look at it 2 secs

[Menalque]

what discrepancy?

You were townreading Titus.

yeah, but I was asked for the teams if LL is town

also saying I think someone is probably town but not locktown doesn't mean they're out of PoE when there's only 4 possible people I think scum can be within

[Menalque]

We have 7 players left. 2 are scum. If you are town you are looking at 2 scum and 4 town outside of yourself. You clearly think I'm scum, and you think wooper is scum. That's already 2 of the 6 not!you players. But you would also advocate lynching Titus and Homura. You are calling 4 of the 6 living players scum. Assuming you are town, and we mislynch somebody who is not you today, how the hell are you going to lead the town to victory at LYLO if your play this DP is to literally offer up anyone as a lynch who isn't you?

err, no, that's not what I'm doing

I've at no point advocated lynching Titus or homura (other than saying we should Lynch within Titus and wooper)

I am saying that I think the most likely scum is (you, wooper) but that I could also see homura or Titus as scum because I'm not town reading either of them

I have a very strong preference for lynching wooper, but also yes, obviously any of those lynches are preferable to me because I could see them as scum whereas I know I'm town?

It feels like you aren't trying to scumhunt and you are just trying to survive. That's always either bad!town or !scum.

you have no idea what you're talking about, but again, p sure it's because you're scum

homura what do you think is town!indicative about all of this from LL

[Menalque]

like I don't see how LL is doing anything other than open wolfing rn with the shit he's spewing

[Menalque]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

[LuckyLuciano]

LL is lynching scum, but I guess that's what they call open wolfing on this site. /shrug

[Homura]

(1) oh, wonderful, you're one of those players. this is actually mildly frustrating because it makes me a bit less sure on scum!you -- I'd probably force through your lynch if I wasn't in this slot because I deal very badly with players who are (a) very arrogant (b) very wrong (c) incapable of acknowledging a or b

This does slightly lessen my townread on Luciano a bit, actually.

P-edit: You two are mirroring each other.

[LuckyLuciano]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

[Menalque]

VOTE: Menalque. I can't convince myself that it's not Menalque + Titus. If I'm wrong on Menalque, I'm down to reconsider at LYLO. There's literally nobody else that is going to get enough traction to be lynched this DP, so let's just move on.

also, see this: trying to generate the notion that my lynch is inevitable to ensure it goes through.

read my ISO people, look at what I'm saying, and look at how surface level LL's read on me is and his play around me has been. he's literally been trying to set me up to be lynched from the moment I repped in by suggesting that Titus unvoting me would be scum!indicative for us as a team, when actually unvoting a replaced slot who puts up a bunch of content after repping in is entirely normal

[Menalque]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

so you're just admitting that it wasn't a question asked in good faith then

[LuckyLuciano]

My vote was on you before you repped in, my friend.

[LuckyLuciano]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

so you're just admitting that it wasn't a question asked in good faith then

Not at all. If you say something along the lines of, "Well, if you are town then I'm lost at who Wooper's scummate is" then you would look very town. How can you be so strong on your two reads and then so easily abandon one when asked a hypothetical like that? How much do you actually believe what you say?

[Menalque]

(1) oh, wonderful, you're one of those players. this is actually mildly frustrating because it makes me a bit less sure on scum!you -- I'd probably force through your lynch if I wasn't in this slot because I deal very badly with players who are (a) very arrogant (b) very wrong (c) incapable of acknowledging a or b

This does slightly lessen my townread on Luciano a bit, actually.

P-edit:

You two are mirroring each other

.

not exactly.

I have a proven record on site, which you know and both Titus/wooper can confirm if they so wish.

I've deliberately been

incredibly

measured and reasonable here, which at the very least wooper can confirm

LL is, I'm fairly sure, trying to provoke me into staying focused on a 1v1 with him, and is pretty demonstrably not interested in sorting me. see: bad faith questions, setting me up to fail no matter what I say

[Menalque]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

so you're just admitting that it wasn't a question asked in good faith then

Not at all. If you say something along the lines of, "Well, if you are town then I'm lost at who Wooper's scummate is" then you would look very town. How can you be so strong on your two reads and then so easily abandon one when asked a hypothetical like that? How much do you actually believe what you say?

no, this is literally acting in bad faith. if you say "imagine I'm town, who is scum" then you haven't pulled some magic scum catching trick if the person goes "well, in a world where you're town then I guess it's someone else in my PoE" you've just asked a bad faith question and tried to make it into something it's not

[Menalque]

and if you're doing that then you're not really trying to sort me which requires actually acting in good faith

[Menalque]

hence my confidence in you being scum, but me being confident in that doesn't mean that I'm 100% on it because that's a wonderful way to end up with egg on your face

[LuckyLuciano]

In addition, you logged on right as Homura was trying to sort me. Why not address the convo he and I had if you wanted to know why he TRs me, when

he literally just built his TR on the page you in which you jumped into the convo.

Instead you just spammed "why is LL town" over and over again. Did you not read anything Homura

had just posted?

[LuckyLuciano]

When I asked that question I was sorting whether your mindset is to solve the game, or to survive. Your answer indicated the latter. Simply having a POE isn't solving the game, especially when that POE, when you look at your reasons for people being in the pool, amount to anyone but you.

[Homura]

not exactly.

I have a proven record on site, which you know and both Titus/wooper can confirm if they so wish.

I've deliberately been incredibly measured and reasonable here, which at the very least wooper can confirm

I did not mean to imply that you were otherwise and I apologize if I came off that way.

Slightly related, though, it's been half a year since I last participated in a game with you (other than the last Newbie), so you'll forgive me if I cannot read you as well. Do you think you're outside of your scumrange this game?

[Homura]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

This feels slightly disingenuous — like it was a trick question where any answer Menalque gave would've be the wrong answer. How would you have responded if Menalque answered with the hypothetical you proposed in 1063?

[Homura]

Mena, under the hypothetical that Luciano is town, do you think I or Titus would be the most likely partner for scum!Wooper?

[Menalque]

not exactly.

I have a proven record on site, which you know and both Titus/wooper can confirm if they so wish.

I've deliberately been incredibly measured and reasonable here, which at the very least wooper can confirm

I did not mean to imply that you were otherwise and I apologize if I came off that way.

Slightly related, though, it's been half a year since I last participated in a game with you (other than the last Newbie), so you'll forgive me if I cannot read you as well. Do you think you're outside of your scumrange this game?

oh, you're actually not who I thought you were then but I think I do know who you are. there's another new player who posts similarly to you. unless the game I'm thinking of with you is older than I realised, but I still don't think it makes it to half a year.

I'm not sure that's a super useful question in terms of sorting me tbh. I'm not sure I am, my scum range is pretty broad nowadays, and while I would struggle to effort post as much as I have this game I probably could if motivated and Trying Hard(tm).

I think the better way is to look at me holistically and ask whether I'm trying to solve the game or not/why I'm making the pushes I am

[LuckyLuciano]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

This feels slightly disingenuous — like it was a trick question where any answer Menalque gave would've be the wrong answer. How would you have responded if Menalque answered with the hypothetical you proposed in 1063?

Then he would look town, like I said in the post you quoted. I don't know why he is not allowed to say, "I don't know," or, "I would have to reevaluate after the flip".