Mini 2133: XP Mafia II (Game Over)

[Raya36]

And about questing: Town should not want that sabotage being around at Night 2+ because losing all stored xp is... too bad at that point. I can get behind the reasoning for a day 1/night 1 quest but after that, the potential damage is just too big.

Just wanted to say I 100% agree with this. I don't think we should Quest anymore after this one unless the gift proves to be worth it

I have check with the mod, and he said we are allowed to vote end day without capturing. This is clearly the best mechanical option. No lynch is forced upon us, and until such time that lynch becomes available, we should not be using this anti-town ability. We want all town powers being used.

Ideally today should be short, choose a power, then end day. When lynch becomes available, we should start to discuss.

VOTE: End day

- Bret

Why do you say the day should be short?

[Ame]

I have check with the mod, and he said we are allowed to vote end day without capturing. This is clearly the best mechanical option. No lynch is forced upon us, and until such time that lynch becomes available, we should not be using this anti-town ability. We want all town powers being used.

Ideally today should be short, choose a power, then end day. When lynch becomes available, we should start to discuss.

VOTE: End day

- Bret

This would be very much to our disadvantage. Capturing hurts mafia more than it hurts town, especially in the early Days when everyone is low on XP. The key to this is the fact that we know they must expend XP to preform the Night kill. A D1 captured mafia member who began the game with 1XP would not only be prevented from carrying out the Night kill N1 but N2 as well since they would have lost their original XP and would have been unable to train during the previous Night. So by capturing a mafia, we have a chance of significantly hindering their movement as a whole. Capturing Town, on the other hand, does not significantly set us back (1) because many of the personal roles seem to not require the exhaustion of XP and (2) we have not yet gained any shared roles that do. At worse, we prevent a PR from taking a N1 action and/or set someone back from upgrading for a Night or two.

Furthermore, failing to use this mechanic robs us of information we could use to look back on later. This is, without a doubt, the most hurtful strategy that has been proposed.

Read the scum chat from the last game. A captured mafia set them back because the role blocker couldn't kill and do the factional ability at
Incorrect. There are 3 mafia, and a captured mafia is very low reward for town - one of the others can perform the factional kill. Town roles are not afforded this luxury. A captured town role is a lost role for the night. Capturing at this stage of the game is very low reward and high risk. The overwhelming likelihood is that a town player will be captured. The most important thing right now is to ensure town players with powers are using them unimpeded, not having them captured, or forcing them to claim to avoid being captured.

- Bret

You're missing the point. Removing one mafia's ability to do the kill forces another to do it. Forcing them to expend XP they could otherwise save or use on something else. Read the scum chat in the last game. Even though scum had multitasking, the roleblocker wasn't able to use their ability AND capture at the same time. This forced the third member to expend XP and they were eventually left unable to kill because each member's XP was exhausted.

[Farkset]

323 sounds like "there is no point in lynching, because there is higher chance to kill town then scum"
Capture is just like lynch but just not lethal.
~ker

[Ame]

use their ability AND kill*

[Flight of the Conchords]

323 sounds like "there is no point in lynching, because there is higher chance to kill town then scum"
Capture is just like lynch but just not lethal.
~ker

The two are nothing alike. Lynch tells us alignment, and so is worth the downside when it hits a town player. Capture teaches us very little. It is a blind roleblock. It sounds like it would be much useful later on, for example (likely sooner than this, but as an example), when there is only one scum left alive, etc.

- Bret

[Ame]

Consider my vote in a superposition between Conchords, Spring, and Mastina.

[Hectic]

Bret, any reason you're avoiding my question?

[Flight of the Conchords]

I mean, it's just not an interesting question to answer.
Mafia at it's core is a game that allows scum remove players that are a threat to them. That's the philosophy angle.
I also think having the strongman kill available allows us to use NKA more reliably - we don't have to ask ourselves "is [player] still alive because scum fear some protective role?"
I get the argument for disabling the strongman, though. You wanna do that, go ahead, it's a solid option.

- Bret

[springlullaby]

323 sounds like "there is no point in lynching, because there is higher chance to kill town then scum"
Capture is just like lynch but just not lethal.
~ker

This is very wrong. Here is why.

-> Capture is not a lynch at all because it lacks one pro-town characteristic of lynch which is revealing alignment.

Why are you so wrong here?

[springlullaby]

I mean, it's just not an interesting question to answer.
Mafia at it's core is a game that allows scum remove players that are a threat to them. That's the philosophy angle.
I also think having the strongman kill available allows us to use NKA more reliably - we don't have to ask ourselves "is [player] still alive because scum fear some protective role?"
I get the argument for disabling the strongman, though. You wanna do that, go ahead, it's a solid option.

- Bret

Hmm. What is NKA?

[springlullaby]

Nevermind, Night kill analysis.

[Farkset]

323 sounds like "there is no point in lynching, because there is higher chance to kill town then scum"
Capture is just like lynch but just not lethal.
~ker

The two are nothing alike. Lynch tells us alignment, and so is worth the downside when it hits a town player. Capture teaches us very little. It is a blind roleblock. It sounds like it would be much useful later on, for example (likely sooner than this, but as an example), when there is only one scum left alive, etc.

- Bret

I mean, it's just not an interesting question to answer.
Mafia at it's core is a game that allows scum remove players that are a threat to them. That's the philosophy angle.
I also think having the strongman kill available allows us to use NKA more reliably - we don't have to ask ourselves "is [player] still alive because scum fear some protective role?"
I get the argument for disabling the strongman, though. You wanna do that, go ahead, it's a solid option.

- Bret

This is… not good.

HURT: Conchords

-Farkran

[Ame]

HURT: Conchords

[springlullaby]

^Explain.

[springlullaby]

mastina
Ginggie
Pine
Pink Ball

More input.

[Pink Ball]

What can I do for you

[Ginngie]

mastina
Ginggie
Pine
Pink Ball

More input.

you listed my crew

what you want

[springlullaby]

Summon and you shall receive.

Comment on the state of the game?
Ginngie, have you pledged your quest participation yet.

[Ginngie]

whatever my crew does I'll be doing

[springlullaby]

So, Pine has pledged quest participation. Have you pledged yet?

[Ginngie]

That's 1/3 members so no

[springlullaby]

Pink Ball too. 2/3 still not enough?

[Pink Ball]

My comment on the state of the game is that one scum is voting you no matter what your alignment is. If you're town, they want to discredit you because of your open leadership proposal. If you're scum, it would be distancing

[springlullaby]

^Ok.
What do you think of FOC. And the vote he has garnered?

[Pink Ball]

Was them who proposed the End Day quickly? I don't think scum would do that unless one of their partners are looking bad