Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[davesaz]

Hectic is a bad wagon because of votes like these. No reasoning behind them, other than it's a good wagon.

Keep reading, it comes out as you go.

Let's hear what you saw then, Dave, now that we know the case doesn't actually exist. There's not going to be any continuity errors on my watch.

Was waiting to do this till I got to the end of catchup, but found a post that requires my attention.
UNVOTE:

Did you even bother to ISO me? I find it hard to believe you missed what I said. But anyway, I'll go back and point you to the post after I finish.

why did you not believing Hectic, make you less inclined to believe he was scum?

Let me rephrase your question and see if I get the meaning.
You're asking why, if I didn't believe that Hectic missed what I said, would I believe his claim and unvote him?
The disbelief is about Hectic as a person, not about his role. I can believe the claim and still doubt whether he was reading.

[Morning Tweet]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

[Battle Mage]

Can we not with the "if we lynch a scum inside of a hood, everyone else in the hood is confirmed town"? Especially if you've got like 7 people in a hood guys, its probably not going to hold true

I agree it's very possible for 2 scum in a hood otherwise the setup would be pretty easy for town I guess, but if Momo is scum, I think me and Pine are town for sure. And ABR is more likely town than currently.

Xtom why don't you explain a farside or Hectic scumread so we can talk maybe

Far side - instead of trying to work things out with me she is just returning the scumread, bc she expects to win out against me. Otherwise doesnt feel townie. I played with her a lot in the past.

Hectic - my strongest tr is vote there (a50) and abr who I also tr keeps asking me to vote there. Most of the wagon is my townread or townleans. At some point I need to compromise. I dont tr any of the slots on the alternate momo wagon.

I am also confused why you seem to put weight on the things I say, yet have me as a sr. It seems contradictory.

Cause id like to hear you say something, anything, so i have something to base a read off of

Xtoxm has posted plenty enough for you to have a read on him surely?

not really no. I think the only lurkier players at the time had been Pine, maybe George. That inital post was a response to Xtom being displeased with you scumreading him. But like, he hadn't posted enough to justify a townlean, thats for sure

I had loads of stuff on Xtoxm from his early posts, which is why I asked. Enough for a smart player like you to get a sense of his alignment?

I'm not running anyone else up today. If a doc is out there he can safely guard Hectic without worrying about being forced to claim. I'm ready to wrap this up and go to night if you are too xtoxm.

im not eager to rush onto the cw, tbh
with momo immediately clarifying that its not a 3p claim
1-shot bulletproof claim basically? thats a claim that at this point in the day almost certainly results in momo being lynched. anti-survivalistic claims dont *usually* come from scum..
i think BM is the more likely scum in your hood.

I can kinda see this reasoning. If momo were scum, i'd expect him to claim a stronger role than 1-shot BP. Especially when if he is scum, he's probably not an actual 1-shot BP and that's a fake claim. why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Good questions. Lots of possible answers. Maybe he thought it would seem stronger than it actually does (this was seemingly apparent from his claim which said this was a powerful asset to the town). Maybe he thought a big PR claim would be countered or just seen as too unbelievable, so he wanted to go for something low-key and credible, which is highly unlikely to be countered? A lot of PR fakeclaims on Day 1 could be busted pretty quickly, and if his ambition is to survive for more than a couple more days, I think he would need a fakeclaim PR which ain't gonna draw an NK, or get him into trouble with any complicated interplay. In other words, I actually think it's the perfect fakeclaim for Momo-scum.

I'm surprised Dany is getting so much heat without being here. Interesting!

[Battle Mage]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

You think he'd need to be provided that by the Mod?

It's a soft fakeclaim, anyone could make it up. Although I don't really know the flavour, so maybe that makes it trickier?

[davesaz]

That doesn't change that Hectic's post (that several of us questioned) was illogical as fuck. It needed a wagon when that was what we had to go on.

In general I loathe the idea of lynching a possible cop. Having people want to lynch me as a claimed investigative was unbearable in the TM game. There are things you just don't do and that's one of them.

[Battle Mage]

Hectic is a bad wagon because of votes like these. No reasoning behind them, other than it's a good wagon.

Keep reading, it comes out as you go.

Let's hear what you saw then, Dave, now that we know the case doesn't actually exist. There's not going to be any continuity errors on my watch.

Was waiting to do this till I got to the end of catchup, but found a post that requires my attention.
UNVOTE:

Did you even bother to ISO me? I find it hard to believe you missed what I said. But anyway, I'll go back and point you to the post after I finish.

why did you not believing Hectic, make you less inclined to believe he was scum?

Let me rephrase your question and see if I get the meaning.
You're asking why, if I didn't believe that Hectic missed what I said, would I believe his claim and unvote him?
The disbelief is about Hectic as a person, not about his role. I can believe the claim and still doubt whether he was reading.

That's not what my question was, but it doesn't matter - I'm satisfied with your answer.

[Battle Mage]

That doesn't change that Hectic's post (that several of us questioned) was illogical as fuck. It needed a wagon when that was what we had to go on.

In general I loathe the idea of lynching a possible cop. Having people want to lynch me as a claimed investigative was unbearable in the TM game. There are things you just don't do and that's one of them.

was this a response to anything in particular?

[Xtoxm]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

eh not really, for scum in a hood, theres probably only one mod-provided safe flavour that would fit, maaaaybe 2

[Morning Tweet]

Hectic is a bad wagon because of votes like these. No reasoning behind them, other than it's a good wagon.

Keep reading, it comes out as you go.

Let's hear what you saw then, Dave, now that we know the case doesn't actually exist. There's not going to be any continuity errors on my watch.

Was waiting to do this till I got to the end of catchup, but found a post that requires my attention.
UNVOTE:

Did you even bother to ISO me? I find it hard to believe you missed what I said. But anyway, I'll go back and point you to the post after I finish.

BM i think it's pretty clear dave isn't implying that he's scumreading/townreading Hectic for the "finding it hard to believe comment". it doesn't really seem related to the unvote-- which was surely because of the claim

[Morning Tweet]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

eh not really, for scum in a hood, theres probably only one mod-provided safe flavour that would fit, maaaaybe 2

Oh yeah, i wasn't really thinking with the hood flavour factored in

[Morning Tweet]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

You think he'd need to be provided that by the Mod?

It's a soft fakeclaim, anyone could make it up. Although I don't really know the flavour, so maybe that makes it trickier?

I kinda forgot about mod-provided fakeclaims, but ABR reminded me

if scum isn't provided fake claims, it'd be unfair for people who don't know saw characters. plus, they'd have to gamble that they choose a SAW flavour character that no one else has.

[Battle Mage]

Updated my reads list:

Almost50 is TOWN - meta

Drixx

is TOWN - open post reveal of hood, and subsequent near-obsession with hood, as well as general inquisitive tone reads strongly town.

Hectic

is MODERATE TOWN - I buy the cop-claim. More interested in flavour than game early. However overall vibe is confident, bombastic townie. Genuine scumhunting. If scum, probably not buddies with Dany - defence of him reads as pretty odd. Defence of himself has not been great.

ABR

is MODERATE TOWN - My head says probably town given his personality, the way he has stepped up to lead things, and the way people have reacted to it - in real time definitely felt like a panic-moment for scum. In my heart, I'm less sure, but clearly not a lynch in the short term.

Blake Belladonna

is TOWN LEAN

Vecna

is TOWN LEAN - just lots of good townie vibes from his posts so far. Falsely alleged I claimed scum, then ran off, so down-graded from moderate town. Lots of scummy associations to consider when we get some flips, but mostly just feels like town chasing shadows.

Gamma Emerald

is TOWN LEAN - marginal, but townie vibes from ISO so far.

BBMola

is TOWN LEAN - Interesting ISO, overall vibe is town, although protesting his own townie-ness isn't a great look. If my other reads were right, I could be interested in BBmola as a potential low-key scumpartner, but not one for now.

Pine

is TOWN LEAN - Only saving grace really is that I buy the claim, and think it probably feels more town than scum. Gameplay wise, he initially just wants to lurk through the game. Indicates factual knowledge that Vecna is town. Sets up Drixx vs Vecna as TvS - I have both as town, so this could be a cheap scum play. Collapsed under pressure to produce 6 suspects - scummy. Claims to be in 2 hoods, although per claim, obviously seems legit. Surely town if Momo-scum.

GuiltyLion

is TOWN LEAN - smart dude, sensible and believable thought processes, although continual "do you think I am scum though?" leaves a bad vibe, and early behaviour could be worth revisiting after some flips (not sure if he's just a vote-hopper by nature, or early-game jitters). Also not in a hood. I buy it.

Farside22

is TOWN LEAN - genuine scum-hunting, some minor alarm bells, but not worrying me too much for now. Odd relationship with MorningTweet noted - if not in a hood, worth exploring.

Davesaz

is NEUTRAL - about as neutral as it gets. Some townie vibes, but "in all honesty" was the most minor of scumpings.

GeorgeBailey

is NEUTRAL - some reasoning is a bit shaky, but quite liberal with the vote which I always like. One to watch, and nothing more for now.

MorningTweet

is SCUM LEAN - Lots of elaborate reads lists with very few actual suspects. Odd relationship with Farside. Makes a ludicrously weak case on me in post #567, and desperate for acknowledgement of it. Presenteeism? Nervous about questioning ABR - probably not buddies.

Elsa

is SCUM LEAN - Should be a good one to meta later, probably not worth a tickle today. Interactions would make a good fit for a Hectic or Momo scumbuddy. Voting pattern very dodgy, and picking up potential bussing-heat. Worth a look tomorrow.

Pisskop

is SCUM LEAN - generally town vibes, but I was really pinged by this "But I really do agree that we should be posting in our hoods" and "Why else would we not know our hoodmates?" followed by "I'd prefer we didnt talk about the hoods at all D1" and then "I dont have a hood". Hedging bets early on by implying he might be in a hood (when it was less clear who was in and who was out), referring to "our hoods" and "our hoodmates"? Or, less likely, a slip in reference to the scum PT? Probably not scum with ABR based on interaction.

Danyboy

SCUM LEAN - early obsession with using flavour to break game is a minus. Scummy vibes from posting. Nervous about other's opinions, although picking out me and ABR as main targets would be ballsy play for scum. Not a big presence as things heat up. A natural partner for Momo.

Xtoxm

is MODERATE SCUM - slipped up early on and then struggled for a couple posts. Claimed not to be in any hoods, and this means he shouldn't be lynched. Wants to sheep - scummy. Claims farside is scum but won't lynch her to be nice. randomly claims to be town for no reason. Not scumbuddies with Pine. Strange interactions with Farside. Openly admits lurking. More likely with Momo than Hectic. Meltdown under limited scrutiny.

Vaultdweller

is MODERATE SCUM - claimed he didn't post in his hood for ages - what's he hiding? little contribution early, mostly cheap town reads, and trying to play probable town off against each other without getting too close to fire. Seems scared of ABR, so not scumbuddies. Pre-occupied with momo and Vecna. Very quiet now Momo is being lynched. A Momo-Vecna-VaultDweller trio would not shock me.

Momo

is LIKELY SCUM - Hard to really quantify, mostly a strong gut feeling. I just get super scummy vibes from his posting, including the wording used. Weak claim, unverifiable and not consistent with play. Meta suggests scum. Improved vibes late on, but defense looks a bit like sour grapes and frustration with Day 1 lynch, not overly townie. Could definitely see him as scum with Danyboy - obvious Day 2 play for a Momo-scum flip. And potentially with VaultDweller.

[Battle Mage]

why fake claim if it's not even gonna be something strong?

Mod provided fakeclaim.

I suppose. Couldn't scum pool all the claims together and pick the strongest one to use though?

You think he'd need to be provided that by the Mod?

It's a soft fakeclaim, anyone could make it up. Although I don't really know the flavour, so maybe that makes it trickier?

I kinda forgot about mod-provided fakeclaims, but ABR reminded me

if scum isn't provided fake claims, it'd be unfair for people who don't know saw characters. plus, they'd have to gamble that they choose a SAW flavour character that no one else has.

Possible, or the real flavour is just NAI?

[Battle Mage]

Hectic is a bad wagon because of votes like these. No reasoning behind them, other than it's a good wagon.

Keep reading, it comes out as you go.

Let's hear what you saw then, Dave, now that we know the case doesn't actually exist. There's not going to be any continuity errors on my watch.

Was waiting to do this till I got to the end of catchup, but found a post that requires my attention.
UNVOTE:

Did you even bother to ISO me? I find it hard to believe you missed what I said. But anyway, I'll go back and point you to the post after I finish.

BM i think it's pretty clear dave isn't implying that he's scumreading/townreading Hectic for the "finding it hard to believe comment". it doesn't really seem related to the unvote-- which was surely because of the claim

I know, it was all tickle, no prickle.

[Morning Tweet]

Possible, or the real flavour is just NAI?

I dont know what u mean by this-- i mean that every role has a flavour character attached to it, so if you were to fake claim, you'd need a jigsaw character. But if you fake claim a jigsaw character that someone else has, then your claim would fail by default

I know, it was all tickle, no prickle.

oh, silly you (ﾉ>ω<)

[Battle Mage]

Possible, or the real flavour is just NAI?

I dont know what u mean by this-- i mean that every role has a flavour character attached to it, so if you were to fake claim, you'd need a jigsaw character. But if you fake claim a jigsaw character that someone else has, then your claim would fail by default

I know, it was all tickle, no prickle.

oh, silly you (ﾉ>ω<)

I mean that scum could just have flavour which isn't obviously scum? So the flavour wouldn't give them away anyway?

[Morning Tweet]

Possible, or the real flavour is just NAI?

I dont know what u mean by this-- i mean that every role has a flavour character attached to it, so if you were to fake claim, you'd need a jigsaw character. But if you fake claim a jigsaw character that someone else has, then your claim would fail by default

I know, it was all tickle, no prickle.

oh, silly you (ﾉ>ω<)

I mean that scum could just have flavour which isn't obviously scum? So the flavour wouldn't give them away anyway?

Ah. So they'd use their real flavour name, but make up the role part.

i think the name might tie into the ability. Simone is a saw character that survived her trap, hence the trap proof ablity. not a lot of saw characters get out of traps

she had to cut her arm off to beat someone else in a contest to see how much they could cut off of their bodies (・・；)

[davesaz]

That doesn't change that Hectic's post (that several of us questioned) was illogical as fuck. It needed a wagon when that was what we had to go on.

In general I loathe the idea of lynching a possible cop. Having people want to lynch me as a claimed investigative was unbearable in the TM game. There are things you just don't do and that's one of them.

was this a response to anything in particular?

Not anything in particular. I like being open about what I'm thinking.

[Xtoxm]

gonna park this here for now
VOTE: bm

[Albert B. Rampage]

gonna park this here for now
VOTE: bm

Let's be helpful and vote for momo.

[Almost50]

Alright, whatever, I'm claiming:

I'm Detective Halloran, a Police X-shot Sleuth.

X amount of times, I can investigate someone at night to see if they're an

Acolyte

, but I can't detect Jigsaw himself with my check.

I've been crumbing it all game with my RP.

Then why the fuck did you FoS me for pointing your OBVIOUS crumb out? You made me feel like I misinterpreted something and that it wasn't a crumb.

VOTE: momo

[Battle Mage]

we're not waiting for Pine? Ok well I want a piece of this.

Vote: Momo

If I die tonight, policy-lynch Xtoxm tomorrow obviously.

[Battle Mage]

Also, just for the record, I have no PR, so don't waste an NK on me, scumbags!

[farside22]

we're not waiting for Pine? Ok well I want a piece of this.

Vote: Momo

If I die tonight, policy-lynch Xtoxm tomorrow obviously.

I counted a total of 9 votes on momo.
Pine could still get in here.

[Albert B. Rampage]

we're not waiting for Pine? Ok well I want a piece of this.

Vote: Momo

If I die tonight, policy-lynch Xtoxm tomorrow obviously.

I'm not voting Xtoxm day 2 if he votes for momo now.