Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over


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Post Post #1875 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 3:39 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1870, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Yeah it would be really funny except in 150+ games I have never done that in my career, because I am bad at scum. I am ALWAYS the sacrificial lamb, and NEVER expected to go to to the end. Look at any of my scum games. I have NEVER played as if I'm good at scum. Look at my wiki.
Thou shalt not bring forth meta in defence of thyself. :lol:

I think you're a confident, capable, ego-player (in a good way <3) and you wanted to run the game and drive the scumteam to victory here, by any means necessary.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1876 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 3:42 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1871, Albert B. Rampage wrote:This is an easy win for us, lynch Blake and I'll tell you who to lynch next, we got this. BM should be ignored like we should have done yesterday, that was my fault for believing him yesterday.
This is revisionist history. You initiated the Xtoxm lynch from the PT, and left me to take the flack for it. Blake isn't scum, you are. You haven't even begun to respond to my case, other than saying it's wrong. If you were town, you would have accused me of being scum for the same rationale (because it's likely that Amanda Young is a scum-character in the Survivor hood). Instead, you made an off-hand stab that I was Jigsaw, and are now going back to Blake because she's an easy target in the hood with no scum.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1877 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 3:54 am

Post by pisskop »

I dont think your reads are that hot BM
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #1878 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 3:56 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Had to add to my case below. Will keep updating as new facts come to light:

Why ABR is scum


1. PT Behaviour on Day 1 and post-lynch:


I noted at outset of Day 2 his behaviour in PT is exactly what I would expect from him as scum (and only Momo's behaviour made me think he was clean).
He was initially not keen to throw suspicion on others in the hood, and just wanted everyone to follow him. He just 'assumed' Momo and I were town, and only suggested Pine was scum when Pine wouldn't toe the line. ABR was non-committal on my Momo scum-read, and didn't engage with it until after the flip. After the flip, he was excited and jubilant, and claimed credit for the lynch.

2. Flavour:


As noted in my setup theory, I think Amanda Young is highly likely in the game, as a survivor. ABR has instead claimed, in the PT, that he is Corbett Denlon - the child of 2 confirmed townies. She was not a prominent feature of the film franchise, so I'm not sure she would be a character in the game, especially given both her parents were. She was also never subject to Jigsaw's traps, so I wouldn't really call her a 'survivor' at all, and she'd be way way down on the list of likely survivor characters compared to Amanda Young. Gut says it MUST be a fakeclaim.

3. PT Behaviour Night 1 onwards:


During Night 1, ABR suddenly became frantically active in the PT, having neglected it for a while before that (me and Pine were both stuck in traps at this point of course). He claimed his role and flavour, and also claimed that Xtoxm was a "mailman" (incidentally, not what he flipped), and then gave the story I repeated yesterday in order to make me suspect Xtoxm, which on reflection may not have been true. He was not keen on my suggestion of lynching those not in a PT, which suggests if ABR flips scum, there is some more credence to it. I made it clear that I didn't trust him (by not reciprocating his claim, or sharing info about what happened to me in my trap), and since then he has become very angry and aggressive in the PT.

4. Momo wagon:


ABR was not at all eager to get on the Momo wagon, despite my endless cajoling, and the fact he was pretty happy wagonning everybody else. When Momo was about to get lynched, he randomly turned attention to ABR and started tunnelling him. He knew he was dead by then, and didn't have a convincing reason, so would have been incentivised to try and buy his buddy some towncred.

5. His approach to the hood:


ABR was very keen to reveal the identities of people in the hood, has put lots of effort into protecting everyone in that hood during the day, and has taken a firm line since Day 1 that 1 scum-flip confirms the others as town. Which is exactly what he would do as scum, knowing that 50% of the hood was scum. ABR-town would maintain a healthy suspicion of me, but instead he has continually behaved as if he knows I'm town.

6. No Traps:


If ABR was town, I think he would have been high on the list for scum to trap. He has claimed that he doesn't have any immunity to this. This is not conclusive, but very suspicious given scum have focussed on other veterans like me and Farside.

7. Roleclaim Slip:


Explicitly claimed there are no VTs in the game, then later claimed VT.

8. Behaviour on Day 3 (so far):


Falsely claiming to have driven wagon on Momo on Day 1 to get town-cred.
Falsely claiming to have disagreed with case on Xtoxm and wanted to stop the lynch (when he explicitly said he agreed with the case, and was part of the lynchwagon).
Gets angry and blames Mod for giving him a bad fakeclaim.

9. Inconsistent with Vecna-VaultDweller claim:


Vecna is claiming he is someone's kid, and has a flavour and role about finding his dad (VaultDweller). ABR is also claiming to be someone's kid, but that kid is just some vanilla who ended up in the survivor PT without being a survivor. Spot the odd one out.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1879 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 3:59 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Pisskop - The case for ABR-scum is strong, as above. Please explain why you don't agree, rather than "your reads are not that hot"?
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1880 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:14 am

Post by pisskop »

Ive known abr as a player for years.

i think he is town based on how he responds and pushes.

I have a lot of respect for abr's play because its really aggressive has cleaned up so well over the years
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #1881 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:24 am

Post by Vecna »

UNVOTE: ABR

I dont really like those townreads. Can you explain Drixx and Blake? Are you really gonna read the entire game on your possible flavoursolve? Because that seems like a really bad way to go about this
In post 1865, Battle Mage wrote:A simpler list for today

Probable Town
(Unlikely any scum in here at all)
Morning Tweet
Blake Belladonna
Drixx
VaultDweller
Vecna

Neutral
(only 1 scum here if Dany is town, 0 if Dany is scum)
davesaz
GeorgeBailey
Gamma Emerald

Possible scum
(only 1 scum here, unless BBmolla is town)
GuiltyLion
pisskop

Probable Scum
(prime lynches for tomorrow)
iDanyboy
BBmolla

Definitely Scum
(Lynch for today)
Albert B. Rampage
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Post Post #1882 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:28 am

Post by Vecna »

VOTE: ABR

This can actually remain I guess
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Post Post #1883 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:30 am

Post by Vecna »

Other flavour-solves are possible though BM.

And the way pisskop just went straight against you without even arguing your case should already highlight youre quite possibly wrong somewhere in the rest of the solve
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Post Post #1884 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:31 am

Post by Vecna »

wait, actually guess that still fits.

hmmm

(also, im getting this odd feeling that ABR is just trying to distance here from Blake. When BBmolla pointed at my reads earlier and called them very bad, I had a really strong suspicious already it was scum calling it out because they were very wrong but one of the conclusions was still correct)
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Post Post #1885 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:32 am

Post by Battle Mage »

That's pretty much my town read list from yesterday, with the addition of VaultDweller, so it hasn't changed drastically. Drixx is not there based on flavour or any gamesolve, it's because he looked obvtown early on, and I haven't noted anything especially scummy since. Blake I had as initially town, then erring towards scum yesterday, and now town again because of ABR being scum, so again, not linked to my wider theory about the game. :cool:
In post 1881, Vecna wrote:UNVOTE: ABR

I dont really like those townreads. Can you explain Drixx and Blake? Are you really gonna read the entire game on your possible flavoursolve? Because that seems like a really bad way to go about this
In post 1865, Battle Mage wrote:A simpler list for today

Probable Town
(Unlikely any scum in here at all)
Morning Tweet
Blake Belladonna
Drixx
VaultDweller
Vecna

Neutral
(only 1 scum here if Dany is town, 0 if Dany is scum)
davesaz
GeorgeBailey
Gamma Emerald

Possible scum
(only 1 scum here, unless BBmolla is town)
GuiltyLion
pisskop

Probable Scum
(prime lynches for tomorrow)
iDanyboy
BBmolla

Definitely Scum
(Lynch for today)
Albert B. Rampage
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1886 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:35 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1883, Vecna wrote:Other flavour-solves are possible though BM.

And the way pisskop just went straight against you without even arguing your case should already highlight youre quite possibly wrong somewhere in the rest of the solve
It is possible for me to be right, and townies to still disagree with me. But you're right, it would be preferably if they didn't. Pisskop defending ABR obviously doesn't look great, but it doesn't guarantee he is scum.

I'd be happy to hear someone else have a go at the flavour! I've got really into it now! :D

And yes, it's definitely not 100%, but it's my opinion, and I'm happy to go with it in the absence of anything better. I think it fits pretty well, so could easily be right.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1887 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:37 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1884, Vecna wrote:wait, actually guess that still fits.

hmmm

(also, im getting this odd feeling that ABR is just trying to distance here from Blake. When BBmolla pointed at my reads earlier and called them very bad, I had a really strong suspicious already it was scum calling it out because they were very wrong but one of the conclusions was still correct)
Yeah BBMollas ISO is not good, and if ABR is scum, it looks terrible. :lol:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1888 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:38 am

Post by pisskop »

omg its a right tight circlejerk here
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #1889 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:45 am

Post by Vecna »

pisskop's tone suddenly changed completely
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Post Post #1890 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 4:48 am

Post by pisskop »

I will not be lynching abr any more than id lynch you.

I think bm is a fool who grandstands

and Im not on a laptop to type pretty prose for you
beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.
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Post Post #1891 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 5:10 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1889, Vecna wrote:pisskop's tone suddenly changed completely
maybe he's on the defensive coz we got him :lol:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1892 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 5:34 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

BM is blacklisted from all my future games if he's town
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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Post Post #1893 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 5:59 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I think there's bad at mafia and then there's BM, running a
social experiment
3 days in a row to see how many people will follow him from:

1) tunnel vision
2) repetition ad nauseam
3) perceived level of complete certainty
4) long form posts that give an air of him putting effort into scumhunting (but is wrong)

BM, if you join MY game to shit all over it so that you can get some kind of kick from it, you will never be welcome to play with me ever again and I will make sure everyone knows on this site.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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Post Post #1894 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 6:03 am

Post by Vecna »

Youre not doing yourselves any favors here if youre town

He caught scum day1 and stopped your wagon on the town cop. How is that worth this reaction? Because he lynched town D1 that you also were pushing people to vote for?

Because he's leading a case on you now, which is completely understandable given what happened and youre still alive to tell the tale?
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Post Post #1895 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 6:10 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1892, Albert B. Rampage wrote:BM is blacklisted from all my future games if he's town
Pathetic dude, respect for you lost here.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #1896 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 6:12 am

Post by iDanyboy »

ABR and BM have very similar posting styles so I realy don't get this hate. BM is playing the same as he did in day 1 and he loved him there.

VOTE: ABR
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Post Post #1897 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 6:12 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 1893, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I think there's bad at mafia and then there's BM, running a
social experiment
3 days in a row to see how many people will follow him from:

1) tunnel vision
2) repetition ad nauseam
3) perceived level of complete certainty
4) long form posts that give an air of him putting effort into scumhunting (but is wrong)

BM, if you join MY game to shit all over it so that you can get some kind of kick from it, you will never be welcome to play with me ever again and I will make sure everyone knows on this site.
I will not accept threats to blacklist other players or to besmirch other players across the site. Chill out, it's just a game.
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I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup.
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Post Post #1898 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 6:15 am

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 1892, Albert B. Rampage wrote:BM is blacklisted from all my future games if he's town
>.>

Thinking ABR and BM both town.

VOTE: iDanyboy
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Post Post #1899 (ISO) » Sun May 03, 2020 6:18 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 1893, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I think there's bad at mafia and then there's BM, running a
social experiment
3 days in a row to see how many people will follow him from:

1) tunnel vision
2) repetition ad nauseam
3) perceived level of complete certainty
4) long form posts that give an air of him putting effort into scumhunting (but is wrong)

BM, if you join MY game to shit all over it so that you can get some kind of kick from it, you will never be welcome to play with me ever again and I will make sure everyone knows on this site.
Again pathetic. It's a game dude, get over yourself. I don't care if you think you're some billy big-balls on the internet - bullying in any form sucks, and sadly for you I'm a grown man with a family, I couldn't care less for your shit. :lol:

As I say, respect for you lost. If you think bitching, crying and moaning whenever someone votes for you, makes you a good player, you're wrong. It makes you a bad player at mafia, and not pleasant to play with. If you can't handle a little heat, stay out of the kitchen.

On a lighter note, I did laugh at you accusing me of tunnel vision and repetition ad nauseum, when that's all you've been doing this game re: Blake. :lol:
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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