Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

Hey MT did you think Danny was scum from Day 1 or more in day 2 and day 3? What convinced you it was the best lynch for today?

Beginning of day two, very bad feelings about iDany this time around. I've read his town games before, he tends to be much more involved in them.

iDanys contribution to the Hectic wagon is terrible. When asked for reasoning, he gives a dated reason. He then doesnt unvote because "reasons".

iDany ghosted day one after the momentum shifted from Hectic over to momo. He also hasnt really said anything day two, possibly because he was a prime target.

iDany was our lynch d2, but it got pivoted extremely easily to Xtoxm. Not incrimitating by itself, but another piece

He has followed a trend of jumping on any wagon that seems like its gaining traction, but he seems to struggle to give his own reasoning for being on them. See: naked votes everywhere

What does he do to start off today? Vote ABR right after BM makes a big case, with reasoning of his own that is hardly reasoning and more just an observation.

This makes sense. I'll have to check with BM to see if it lines up with his read on Danny. BM what do you think?

[Battle Mage]

Hey MT if BM is getting tired, do you think its because danny lynch is gaining momentum since we are making more posts than him and BM is starting to give up?

Hey Vecna, do you think if we repeat that danny is scum 15 times on every page from page 87 until the end of day 3, that BM is going to be forced to vote his 2nd top scumread danny?

@Pisskop I think this posting style is more your speed since you are easily convinced by confirmation bias, appeals to majority, and a host of other cognitive biases? Right? So if I put Danny's name in every post I make, maybe we can start talking about how Danny is scum and we know that because it was written by SirCakez and it's our constitutional duty to lynch Danny.

This is a novel approach to delay your fate, I'll give you that.

It's still ABR-scum, MT-town I think. Might have had more doubt if ABR had shown any recognition that MT might be town defending him, but he didn't, so I just don't think he's even trying to appear to scumhunt.

[Morning Tweet]

@BM Surely you know that saying that im tunneling on one wrong idea, is highly ironic?

About Blake: Generally dont know how to read her. Have gone back on forth in the slot. I was planning on questioning her today about her farside reads (and some other reads) in order to get a better idea on her. Matters less now that I know farside is town.

[Battle Mage]

Hey MT did you think Danny was scum from Day 1 or more in day 2 and day 3? What convinced you it was the best lynch for today?

Beginning of day two, very bad feelings about iDany this time around. I've read his town games before, he tends to be much more involved in them.

iDanys contribution to the Hectic wagon is terrible. When asked for reasoning, he gives a dated reason. He then doesnt unvote because "reasons".

iDany ghosted day one after the momentum shifted from Hectic over to momo. He also hasnt really said anything day two, possibly because he was a prime target.

iDany was our lynch d2, but it got pivoted extremely easily to Xtoxm. Not incrimitating by itself, but another piece

He has followed a trend of jumping on any wagon that seems like its gaining traction, but he seems to struggle to give his own reasoning for being on them. See: naked votes everywhere

What does he do to start off today? Vote ABR right after BM makes a big case, with reasoning of his own that is hardly reasoning and more just an observation.

...MT, I think he was joking.

I'm off to bed.

Keep calm and

Vote: ABR

[Albert B. Rampage]

In a BM-scum world, I think he's afraid of a trail of danny, and blake flips so he's pre-emptively trying to lynch the strongest town players (me and MT). I can definitely see a case for that but might be WIFOM as well idk.

The only thing that matters is getting page top, and making 15 posts in 1 page, and repeating danny is scum and convincing the whole world that danny is scum so that he can get the rope that he needs so town can win.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Confirm vote: iDanny

[Morning Tweet]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

[Albert B. Rampage]

I think BM cannot keep up because we found out his scumbuddy who he "claims is his 2nd top scumread" but he refuses to vote, possible distancing here.

With BM running away with his tail between his legs, I think the Danny bandwagon has found new legs!

[Battle Mage]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

suggestion: sleep on it, and join the righteous wagon tomorrow.

[Albert B. Rampage]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

oh wow you have

the exact same reads as you started the day with

, it's as if you're actually invested in winning and are following the posts play by play and not being convinced at all by the shit cases we've seen today. Seems like BM and Gamme are not doing a good job to deflect from a Danny lynch at all!

[Battle Mage]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

oh wow you have

the exact same reads as you started the day with

, it's as if you're actually invested in winning and are following the posts play by play and not being convinced at all by the shit cases we've seen today. Seems like BM and Gamme are not doing a good job to deflect from a Danny lynch at all!

or...if I was to do a MT style, devil's advocate position:

Maybe it seems as if she's actually just trying to keep her reads consistent so she isn't accused of inconsistency again (which did seem to rattle her a bit earlier).

Come on man, I'm helping you here!

[Morning Tweet]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

suggestion: sleep on it, and join the righteous wagon tomorrow.

Maann

it's a feels bad knowing that ABR could be scum, and if he is, you're gonna absolutely destroy me sometime later for not believing your case. if he's scum, i honestly think itd be incidental to a lot of your case. The flavour reasons at least.

If he's town ill feel moderately good though (^ω^)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Spoiler:

separately I do agree about Pisskop, but we can come to that another day.

Can you talk to me about your A50 town read. I looked at his post and I saw a lot of tunnelling on EJ and I don't see him really scum hunting.

Not for today!

We should focus on lynching Xtoxm as quickly as possible before his buddies come and save his ass.

Vote: Xtoxm

for emphasis.

Id be down for some xtox pressure

I always knew you were a smart guy

VOTE: xtoxm

If you're town, I have no doubt we will win this game.

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

It first says he can talk to his scum partners in a PT [1st REDACTED]. The 2nd is apparently the choices for the traps? The 3rd is the FBI PT. 5th is his fake claim. Now, what exactly is the 4th REDACTED?? The one that says "You have many allies."?

It's the list of his scumbuddies obviously!

I do think Danyboy is the tippy top contender for lynching tomorrow.

anyone not voting Xtoxm right now needs to take a long hard look at themselves....

Yea the traitor stuff went over my head. The momo flip PM didn't show me anything that suggests traitor. Why do you think Jiggy doesn't have a neighbourhood? Apologies if you already said it though

It first says he can talk to his scum partners in a PT [1st REDACTED]. The 2nd is apparently the choices for the traps? The 3rd is the FBI PT. 5th is his fake claim. Now, what exactly is the 4th REDACTED?? The one that says "You have many allies."?

It's the list of his scumbuddies obviously!

Why not mention them when he mentioned the scum PT? The way it usually goes is "You are scum with X, Y & Z and you can talk to them here.."

But anyway, you want Xtoxm?

VOTE: Xtoxm

L-1

by my count.

I thought his D1 ending was indeed scummy, but I have a personal bias against lynching him for "reasons" that do not relate to this game. If I choose to set said reasons aside, I could see him flipping red.

Don't know, but that's just how it reads to me!

And yeah nice work. I make it L-2, so just enough time left for Vecna to get in and share anything he wants.

No need to wait for a claim from Xtoxm, we already have it.

ABR - just for fun, shall we claim on behalf of Xtoxm?

anyone not voting Xtoxm right now needs to take a long hard look at themselves....

Are you telling people to go "have intercourse with themselves"? Otherwise, why would they have a hard on themselves??

symptoms of lynching xtoxm may include excitement and even arousal

Vote: Xtoxm

Based on what happened last night, and everything we've seen so far today, Xtoxm is a great bet for scum and Jigsaw himself.

Trust BM - I have never steered you wrong before.

I’ve got mixed feelings on this, I think the idea of Jigsaw running the traps/games makes sense, but unlike Danny I don’t have something that I personally find scummy from this person

Can someone run me through an actual case for Xtoxm?

I can help you a little bit...

Last night Xtoxm shared his fakeclaim (postman) with ABR to try and protect himself, whilst simultaneously trying to kill me. Sent him a love-letter, basically telling ABR how big and strong he is, and promised to sheep him forever (admittedly, this is how ABR described it ). Firstly, there's no way in hell anyone town is doing that. Secondly, the likelihood of scum not putting a trap on ABR last night is reasonably slim given his profile (and I believe he's close-to-confirmed town), so deduce that the reason they didn't is because Xtoxm was going to target him (because if ABR was trapped he couldn't have received the letter). Thirdly, Xtoxm randomly asked on Day 1 to be investigated by different types of cop, and I assume only Jigsaw would be cop-proof, and would have a big incentive for an early clear investigation. Plus Jigsaw is probably not in a PT, so that gives a 1/6 chance anyway, and Xtoxm is clearly the scummiest player of the 6 on his own merit. Others have already made the case on his Day 1 voting pattern being dreadful, but also keeping himself quiet enough to avoid much interest. His only post today is a memorial for Elsa who was subjected to 2 traps last night.

Hence we should

Vote: Xtoxm

VOTE: Blake

Come on guys. MT's PT has no scum? Give me a break. Easy scum lynch right here + jumped on Hectic at a crucial juncture when momo was getting pressure.

For me it's a no-brainer.

We're not lynching Blake today, we're lynching Xtoxm.

However, I do have to give it to you - that was a tremendously weak open by Blake - my TR has been shattered.

How convenient.

How convenient.

I told BM I was voting you before you posted Day 2. Try again.

this is dull, get it together you guys.

Almost50 is still town.
Battle Mage is still town.
BBMolla is still town.

farside22 I'm going to townbin for right now, because I don't see a reason for her to lie about what the trap consisted of. Based on the 1501, I further assume that it's likely that this trap was set to force town to remove one of two players that scum want removed in order to save the cop. I will revisit this later on when there's more information about what the scumteam are likely trying to do, but I'm not seeing scum being placed into this position currently.
davesaz is likely town.
GuiltyLion is likely town.
Xtoxm is likely town.
Drixx is likely town.
Vecna is likely town.

GeorgeBailey and VaultDweller are slots I remember townreading throughout day one, but at this point I don't remember why anymore. Their relative lack of presence lately do not give me the best impression.
Pisskop is somebody I'm not going to be interested in lynching for right now. He isn't acting like the last time I saw him as scum, but he's also far more easy to sort when he's town later on in the game.

Morning Tweet and Albert B Rampage are both slots that I'm explicitly not townreading. However, I would like to look towards reading these two slots primarily by analyzing Farside22 further, which I will do later. Until then, I'm not interested in sorting these two slots directly.

Of the remaining two, I would prefer a lynch on Gamma Emerald.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

I'm not sure what to make of this reads list. I mean, ABR is in a hood with me (and formerly Momo-scum), I can tell you with absolute confidence that the way Momo acted towards ABR in that PT, is NOT the way scum acts towards a partner. Is it conceivably possible ABR is scum? Yes. Is it remotely likely? No. Should we be discussing it today? Obviously not.

You don't mention Dany

at all

, despite the fact that he has been a big focal point today. Instead, I assume he is your unnamed 2nd favourite lynch for today?

You seem to have glossed over everything happening in respect of Xtoxm and bafflingly have him as likely town.

I won't go on, this is not a good showing.

Seeing Blake come out in support of Xtoxm is reassuring - I'd expect Jigsaw to get some people fighting his corner!

Definitely Blake tomorrow if Xtoxm flips as expected.

I can tell you with absolute confidence that the way Momo acted towards ABR in that PT, is NOT the way scum acts towards a partner.

I want to judge this myself.

I can see this for what it is. You're trying to throw yourself under to save Xtoxm.

Not today kiddo.

VOTE: bella

Damnit pisskop, don't undermine me!

can we seriously end the foolishness and focus on lynching Xtoxm-scum.

I don't want to lose another 3 PRs tonight.

Yeah Blake, what do you think about dany?

She's just protecting Xtoxm dude, it's distraction tactics.

I can tell you with absolute confidence that the way Momo acted towards ABR in that PT, is NOT the way scum acts towards a partner.

I want to judge this myself.

I can see this for what it is. You're trying to throw yourself under to save Xtoxm.

Not today kiddo.

Battle Mage.

Answer the question.

There's no question here. Let me ask you something instead - how do you think I could have confidence in anything you say when you don't read my posts properly and with due respect? when you have not engaged with the trends and key issues in the game? and when you are trying to waste time and obfuscate affairs by throwing shade at people who we are clearly not lynching today?

This conversation is a waste of time. I know you are smarter than this, and so I have to believe there's a chance you are scum protecting Xtoxm, but I'll lynch him first to find out.

VOTE: bella

Damnit pisskop, don't undermine me!

Competing wagons are good

true, but do you agree with me that bella is just protecting her boss xtoxm?

I also think now that I'm considering it - Xtoxm lurky/disengaged D1 play may have been an intentional strategy to bait a cop check and get inno'd, giving him towncred/authority to lead later in the game - maybe assuming a lot of how scum!Xtoxm would play tho

at the very least knowing that you can't be investigated would give you less of a reason to try on D1

that's a good point Guilty Lion. Once again, you are a smart dude.

Nothing he has done outside of the neighborhood is town

that's quite a claim

The reality is, she has nothing of consequence to share here, based on her own read of ABR which was pretty ambivalent (certainly not one of her top scumpicks today). This is nothing more than a smokescreen to save Xtoxm, I'm convinced of it.

Votecount 2.2

xtoxm (7) - Battle Mage, farside22, Morning Tweet, GuiltyLion, BBmolla, Almost50, Gamma Emerald
iDanyboy (2) - GeorgeBailey, VaultDweller
Gamma Emerald (2) - Vecna, Blake Belladonna
Blake Belladonna (2) - Albert B. Rampage, pisskop

Not voting (4) - davesaz, xtoxm, iDanyboy, Drixx

(expired on 2020-05-13 19:53:00) remain until day end

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 to reach a majority.

Drixx is V/LA through Friday, May 1.
VaultDweller is V/LA through Monday, May 4.

"I am going to give you a hint as to where I've hidden the key. So listen carefully, the hint is this: it's right before your eyes."

Even the Mod is begging us to lynch xtoxm.

"right before your eyes" - well that's xtoxm nearly getting lynched.
or maybe "right before your i's" - who is before Idany? - xtoxm.

This could not be simpler.

Nothing he has done outside of the neighborhood is town

that's quite a claim

The reality is, she has nothing of consequence to share here, based on her own read of ABR which was pretty ambivalent (certainly not one of her top scumpicks today). This is nothing more than a smokescreen to save Xtoxm, I'm convinced of it.

Yeah and what happens if we both die tonight? I want to leave a legacy.

I ain't gonna die tonight, I'm bulletproof. and we are leaving a legacy, lynching scum. that's the name of the game!

oh wow, that's a lot of energy spent on lynching Xtown-town for such a short Day 2!

Spoilered giant quote wall

[Morning Tweet]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

oh wow you have

the exact same reads as you started the day with

glad we did this i hope it's helpful sometime later cause it's certainly not to me right now!

[Morning Tweet]

@ABR put the quote monoliths in spoilers dude!!

[Battle Mage]

BM im still confident you're town and slightly less confident ABR is town.

ABR is (I hope) joking about spamming idany is scum. Making one post about why i think iDany is scum is fine.

im so tired :c

suggestion: sleep on it, and join the righteous wagon tomorrow.

Maann

it's a feels bad knowing that ABR could be scum, and if he is, you're gonna absolutely destroy me sometime later for not believing your case. if he's scum, i honestly think itd be incidental to a lot of your case. The flavour reasons at least.

If he's town ill feel moderately good though (^ω^)

the flavour reasons are really quite a small part of it though. I think you're treating it as more because we talked about it at such length.

[Battle Mage]

ABR - I'm not paid by the hour! You've done well to make it this far....

[GuiltyLion]

Jeeezus there's a lot to catch up on. I've read/skimmed along up to this point, but I need to deepthink/digest and reflect before I start responding to a lot in more detail, I aim to do that over the course of tonight but gonna be in bits and pieces probably and it's gonna take time. I also plan to claim my role and the events of my game tonight, so stay tuned for that!

Here's where my head is generally at right now though - I have really good feelings about a townbloc/towncore in Morning Tweet, GeorgeBailey, Vecna. I would probably bet the game on these slots being town.

I think ABR is a distraction and likely town.

I want(ed?) to believe BM is also town and just misguided/confbiased, but the longer this 1v1 with ABR goes on the less confident I am in that. I am kinda thinking Blake is town here actually, especially if BM is scum, but I'm not super convinced about it and need to dig more through all her content.

There's a lot of nully/meh slots that can't all be scum but I really don't feel all that great about either way. Davesaz, Drixx, pisskop, Molla. Of these I think I TR pisskop the most, but he could easily be competent scum cruising in this game state rn. These slots need to be forced to engage/participate today to set us up to read them correctly later, and this current game state is not contributing to that at all.

I really don't like iDanyboy or Gamma at all. I plan to case/push that but if my strong TRs (Vecna/MT/George) are all on board I really think we should just champion a Dany lynch today. I view that slot as the best odds of scum from almost every angle I can think of.

[GuiltyLion]

oh and VaultDweller town too by Vecna's claim. Which is a super convenient slot to town clear as he is also kind of a non-entity so far

[Battle Mage]

Jeeezus there's a lot to catch up on. I've read/skimmed along up to this point, but I need to deepthink/digest and reflect before I start responding to a lot in more detail, I aim to do that over the course of tonight but gonna be in bits and pieces probably and it's gonna take time. I also plan to claim my role and the events of my game tonight, so stay tuned for that!

Here's where my head is generally at right now though - I have really good feelings about a townbloc/towncore in Morning Tweet, GeorgeBailey, Vecna. I would probably bet the game on these slots being town.

I think ABR is a distraction and likely town.

I want(ed?) to believe BM is also town and just misguided/confbiased, but the longer this 1v1 with ABR goes on the less confident I am in that. I am kinda thinking Blake is town here actually, especially if BM is scum, but I'm not super convinced about it and need to dig more through all her content.

There's a lot of nully/meh slots that can't all be scum but I really don't feel all that great about either way. Davesaz, Drixx, pisskop, Molla. Of these I think I TR pisskop the most, but he could easily be competent scum cruising in this game state rn. These slots need to be forced to engage/participate today to set us up to read them correctly later, and this current game state is not contributing to that at all.

I really don't like iDanyboy or Gamma at all. I plan to case/push that but if my strong TRs (Vecna/MT/George) are all on board I really think we should just champion a Dany lynch today. I view that slot as the best odds of scum from almost every angle I can think of.

You'd better hurry with that claim - don't know how long this day is going. I'm already super excited for the reason you think I am scum and ABR is town. A fresh perspective always welcome. Especially because you've been right about pretty much everything so far this game, and it's going to be reassuring to hear you get it wrong for once.

[Albert B. Rampage]

BM has made approximately 160 posts about me since the day opened today ! Wow !!!!!!! He must want to lynch me more than xtoxm, what do you think??

[Albert B. Rampage]

I really don't like iDanyboy or Gamma at all. I plan to case/push that but if my strong TRs (Vecna/MT/George) are all on board I really think we should just champion a Dany lynch today. I view that slot as the best odds of scum from almost every angle I can think of.

Yep, another one for the danny winwagon. There's no stopping us now

[GuiltyLion]

I'd really appreciate if you all would cut down on the 1v1ing, it's really anti-town no matter your alignments. I am gonna eat dinner now and I'm worried there's going to be 5-6 new pages to read by the time I return to thread

[Morning Tweet]

@BM 100% honest with you, i really should take the time to revisit the other parts. I wasted my life away on discussing the flavour portions to the point where im forgetting the other reasons.

Even then though, when I weighed his reaction against your case and factored in my earlier townread, i still came up with town. I'll revisit the other parts. just not this instant.

[Battle Mage]

Jeeezus there's a lot to catch up on. I've read/skimmed along up to this point, but I need to deepthink/digest and reflect before I start responding to a lot in more detail, I aim to do that over the course of tonight but gonna be in bits and pieces probably and it's gonna take time. I also plan to claim my role and the events of my game tonight, so stay tuned for that!

Here's where my head is generally at right now though - I have really good feelings about a townbloc/towncore in Morning Tweet, GeorgeBailey, Vecna. I would probably bet the game on these slots being town.

I think ABR is a distraction and likely town.

I want(ed?) to believe BM is also town and just misguided/confbiased, but the longer this 1v1 with ABR goes on the less confident I am in that. I am kinda thinking Blake is town here actually, especially if BM is scum, but I'm not super convinced about it and need to dig more through all her content.

There's a lot of nully/meh slots that can't all be scum but I really don't feel all that great about either way. Davesaz, Drixx, pisskop, Molla. Of these I think I TR pisskop the most, but he could easily be competent scum cruising in this game state rn. These slots need to be forced to engage/participate today to set us up to read them correctly later, and this current game state is not contributing to that at all.

I really don't like iDanyboy or Gamma at all. I plan to case/push that but if my strong TRs (Vecna/MT/George) are all on board I really think we should just champion a Dany lynch today. I view that slot as the best odds of scum from almost every angle I can think of.

Also a further observation: This post would confirm my previous feeling that it's more likely you and BBMolla as the partners for ABR, and Pisskop as town.