Jigsaw's Revenge - Game Over

[Albert B. Rampage]

what if we tried role play instead?

Just read MorningTweets and Eddies catchups they are good.

[Morning Tweet]

if you want people to stop scumreading you, do stuff worth townreading?

Just sitting there indignant is doing nothing to help your case buddy

Yeah we're just past the point where the effort is worth it. Sorry to be so blunt. I could spend all night reading and make all sorts of notes and I'm still on the list of people the scum hope to mislynch. If I'm eating a lynch then I'd rather do it while there's a chance it doesn't end the game in a scum win.

you arent the only person im considering voting for. im voting you in the hopes that either you're scum, or the lynch pressure makes you want to contribute and show you're town

you passed on even giving a readslist. What am I supposed to think? Also even if you're town and get mislynched, we can look back at your input in a new townie light

You apparently missed the part where I said use a sniper rifle instead of a shotgun. In other words: ask for a specific person instead of all people.

you could just mention the people you do have an opinion on. I'm unsure who to ask about.

I'd like to hear more about your evaluation on Battle Mage. You said you got super duper scum vibes on him. You likened him to a blind squirrel (good one btw). Why'd you find that to be scum-indicative for him?

Or if that wasn't the scum-indicative bit, what was?

[Drixx]

BM appears to be trying to drive the game but doesn't appear to actually be applying much rational thought to it. Literally the entirety of BM's "pushes" have been wildly speculative.

[Morning Tweet]

well you're not wrong

Have you found anyone besides BM scummy? Like if you had to do a top three or four lynchpool, who'd be in it

[Vecna]

VOTE: Firebringer

consider that me jamming with you woof

vecna is jsut scumreading me from previous slot apparently. Till he starts individually scumreading me, im not interested in this.

Well your play is also fucking scummy woof

[Vecna]

Please dont judge Fire based on his 'content' or 'contributions'

wtf is this shit

[pisskop]

what does it sound like it is?

[Eddie Cane]

Unvote, Vote: ABR

That's all I've got in me at the moment. Probably not back on until Tuesday.

I need you to explain the Drixx town read if you aren't going to respond to anything else.

[Firebringer]

what if we tried role play instead?

Just read MorningTweets and Eddies catchups they are good.

okay

[Ircher]

Unvote, Vote: ABR

That's all I've got in me at the moment. Probably not back on until Tuesday.

Seriously? You aren't even going to bother answering our questions (about the trap you participated in)?

VaultDweller <- Town unless Vecna is scum. If scum with Vecna, unlikely Jigsaw (who the fuck fake innos a Godfather?)
Ircher <- Town or Jigsaw unless I am scum. Gave ABR a BP Vest.
Albert B. Rampage <- Neighbor with flipped scum, small hood.
Battle Mage <- Neighbor with flipped scum, small hood.
BBmolla <- Semi Proven 1 shot Reporter, if more than one shot can be full proven. Slight town equity to claim not being used as a scum power. Not sure if it would occur to BB to use it as a scum power.
pisskop <- Claimed no hood.
Vecna <- Informed VD is town. Flavor supports claim, vaguely towny? Spec seems to want to widen lynchpool, keep an eye on this.
GuiltyLion <- Broke a trap. One Shot? (Don't clarify GL)
Eddie Cane <- In a hood with two cops (one of which can only target in hood), feels town.
davesaz <- As above, other people said null.
Drixx <- As above, other people said scummy. Trap interaction role, but only with multiperson traps.
Firebringer <- No mechanicals?
Morning Tweet <- EC says town, I feel pings. No real mechanicals?

This is useful. This makes BM and ABR less likely scum. How many was it in the hood? 3? 4?
VOTE: davesaz
Let's sheep the cop role even though they don't have a guilty.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm going to

UNVOTE:

Partly out of respect for Jingle. I don't think Jingle himself sounds scummy, but he's not polarized and Dany was very scum imo and had a scummy replacement so not sure if I can overlook that. I may end up revoting, but want to review some things.

[GuiltyLion]

frankly I been celebrating my birthday and not tryna think too hard about this game yet this weekend, love you all and hope you're having a wonderful weekend. more in a sec but I can't promise it'll be especially cogent

[GuiltyLion]

if you want people to stop scumreading you, do stuff worth townreading?

Just sitting there indignant is doing nothing to help your case buddy

Yeah we're just past the point where the effort is worth it. Sorry to be so blunt. I could spend all night reading and make all sorts of notes and I'm still on the list of people the scum hope to mislynch. If I'm eating a lynch then I'd rather do it while there's a chance it doesn't end the game in a scum win.

why must you always play like this Drixx

why

[Drixx]

if you want people to stop scumreading you, do stuff worth townreading?

Just sitting there indignant is doing nothing to help your case buddy

Yeah we're just past the point where the effort is worth it. Sorry to be so blunt. I could spend all night reading and make all sorts of notes and I'm still on the list of people the scum hope to mislynch. If I'm eating a lynch then I'd rather do it while there's a chance it doesn't end the game in a scum win.

why must you always play like this Drixx

why

I don't always play like this, but when I do it's because I'm busy and people have silly expectations.

[GuiltyLion]

I could do Bingle today if we don't wanna let him live through the claim. His catchup is good but I agree with EC it's not like especially town

I could do Blake/Fire slot as well, or Drixx. Those are prob my three acceptable lynches. I'm very iffy on Drixx going back to literally my first game on site I struggled with reading him. I do vibe with his feelings about BM and if he's scum he's quite good at faking that indignant town attitude.

I'm not super sure how I feel about those three overall and I know I gotta make firmer decisions there. I'll put in some real effort tomorrow.

I actually think I wanna go for Firebringer here. I agree with Vecna - Blake's ISO is very underwhelming from what I normally expect from town!Ank, and the defense of Xtoxm and pushing on ABR D2 feels most likely to be scum setting up for better situation on D3.

VOTE: Firebringer

[Eddie Cane]

As I said, I just played TM with Ank and we had a discord server with thousands of messages. I understand how she plays quite well I think now, and already read her fairly well. During the Large Theme she was town, town was in a similarly bad situation (I think actually on d3 too), and she was very apathetic and low content and wanted to replace. Tom and I had to talk her into staying. This game mirrors her apathy of that one fairly well imo - https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=150&t=81773 the content level is higher, but most of it is directly prompted by myself, as well as a bit of Tom and Dann. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200 is the only scum game from Alyssa I'm familiar with firsthand, but her play there feels very different from here, with it being much more fluid and, well, good. This game is

also

different from her when I've normally seen her as town, but it fits with my image of how her brain scans games, and the apathetic replace out even from a null pov is more likely to come from town when town is losing. I've looked over her iso a few times, and there were a few specific posts that somewhat pinged town. One interesting thing I would note, is that as far as I can tell she lists momo as town in her big reads list (#512) (at a time momo was pretty widely town read I think, which in itself is fine), and did not really acknowledge his existence outside of responding to quotes from other people until she voted him in #1398. According to vcs this is around or slightly after when wagons swinged to momo, but I don't know gamestate at the time so maybe thats wrong. Ank seems like the kind of player to overly theater rather than not acknowledge partners, but I wish I could have questioned her on what changed (again - unless gamestate stuff I'm missing), or if the vc is deceptive and scum!ank just wanted to get in on the wagon before it inevitably went through.

As an aside,

I can tell you with absolute confidence that the way Momo acted towards ABR in that PT, is NOT the way scum acts towards a partner.

what...

[Eddie Cane]

Fuck, my reads are all over the place

tbh I forgot GL was even in this game

[Eddie Cane]

if you want people to stop scumreading you, do stuff worth townreading?

Just sitting there indignant is doing nothing to help your case buddy

Yeah we're just past the point where the effort is worth it. Sorry to be so blunt. I could spend all night reading and make all sorts of notes and I'm still on the list of people the scum hope to mislynch. If I'm eating a lynch then I'd rather do it while there's a chance it doesn't end the game in a scum win.

why must you always play like this Drixx

why

I don't always play like this, but when I do it's because I'm busy and people have silly expectations.

When we last played, we hard pushed each other for a long time, as both town. You had a very high time commitment to that game. Sure that was like 2 years ago and you may have a different schedule now, but I don't understand how asking for your reads or for you to loosely follow a game you signed up for is a silly expectation. If you want sniper questions instead of shotgun questions, then why not just sure the reads you want to and/or have any substance on? I don't get it.

[Eddie Cane]

I dunno. I don't think this game is winnable if we miss today based on night kill amounts and average strength of players. Happy birthday GL! But I really wish people would try more. Skimming this thread I got the impression BM has had the iron fist of control on this game, and he's barely interacted with me or anyone since I've subbed in despite direct questions. Its frustrating.

[Eddie Cane]

Please dont judge Fire based on his 'content' or 'contributions'

wtf is this shit

based on the bell curve you swear too much for it to be an effective argumentation style

can you fucking explain why ank's shit was so fucking scummy?

[GuiltyLion]

Eddie if you feel strongly that Ank slot is town or at least the wrong lynch today, I can defer to you on that since tbh your assessment of her meta/playstyle feels more nuanced and built off a lot more experience than I have with her. I think I'm just struggling to see a lot of clear scum candidates here if Bingle claim is legit. I definitely do not want ABR today, but trying to hit right between Bingle/Drixx/Blake feels like a crapshoot especially since two of the players can't really justify or explain their predecessors play.

What do you think of Bingle discreding MT as a universal townread? Is that scum just trying to have a nice 'against the grain' fake read to try to sound original or is that likely to be genuine?

[Eddie Cane]

I do not have her as my top tier of town, and would not object to her lynch like I would, say, Morning Tweet. On my first read after subbing in I thought she was pretty likely town, faded a bit as I got a lot of town reads, and tbh developed a stronger read on her while writing that post. But yea, I think being on a team with someone is even better than hydraing with them, because you actually get to see how they solve a game "on their own" rather than "with" you. After TM18 I didn't get Giga/Katy, JJ, nor Transcend (rip) wrong again

ever

as far as I remember. So to use less words (I get rambly at 5 AM after drinking lightly) I think Ank is town. She is not super town, but she is more likely town.

Bingle's line about MT was weird to me, I have no idea. I can't empathize with the read at all, MT was townier than BM, ABR, and everybody else during that whole exchange to me, on top of just being unlikely with momo. And the post he quoted seemed pretty NAI. I think that question is player dependent and IDK Jingle that well other than respecting his play. I think Dany is incredibly scummy, so that's where I'm basing that read on, but if Jingle is a cop and we mislynch him today... I dunno, I might be pussying out.

I agree a lot of people are being townie. I am sort of going between Drixx and Bingle for the day. Dave feels like a coin flip every game I play with him, but by the amount of townie people in the game, he's a possible hit. I find scum best with real time interactions and people are barely around real time. There are 10 town and it takes 8 to kill (evens suck). If we take BM as town (something I am not sure of atp), that's one vote out of commission on ABR. Does this feel like a game where all town are going to align and kill scum? No, so either scum needs to bus for no reason (luckily pretty common on ms2020) or I / somebody else who's town need to lead a confident lynch on scum and shovel votes through. I am trying to develop a super confident scum read, and that is sort of Bingle but if this is game is probably a loss otherwise, its definitely a wash if we lynch a cop today, so I'm sort of backing off that unless I can't find another confident scum to push.

[Vecna]

Please dont judge Fire based on his 'content' or 'contributions'

wtf is this shit

based on the bell curve you swear too much for it to be an effective argumentation style

can you fucking explain why ank's shit was so fucking scummy?

Search my iso for ank, I think I gave a few pretty detailed posts on it already.

Let me know if its not sufficient for you

[Vecna]

Please dont judge Fire based on his 'content' or 'contributions'

wtf is this shit

based on the bell curve you swear too much for it to be an effective argumentation style

can you fucking explain why ank's shit was so fucking scummy?

Also, pretending that firebringer isnt capable of good, or at least likeable content as town, that you can read into, is showing either a lack of knowledge, or a motive

Especially in his recent games.

This is miles from that and is just trying to use that "I like to troll image" to get away with shit here.

[Vecna]

To expand on that:

Town firebringer likes to bring subtle trolling and joy that helps town to solve the gamestate and garner good discussion. Its always in there from my experience.

What he's doing here is just a too scummy to be scum gambit, and he's sabotaging our efforts, hoping we'll think "thats just firebringer".