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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:50 am

Post by piisirrational »

In post 42, Umlaut wrote: What's opportunistic about it? Is there someone else you think I should be voting instead, and if not then what's wrong with jumping onto the biggest wagon?
It just pinged me that you'd be jumping on the biggest wagons and that you were conveniently doing it, which can be justified by you moving your vote. I get that it was still the RVS phase but that was something that just stuck out.

@gibus: Why do you think the votes placed on you are not opportunistic and NAI? To me, the fact that you got three votes in such a short span of time for the same post is what felt opportunistic combined with Umlaut's switching of votes. If it's for any reason other than RVS, I would like to know.

Just an FYI: Just because I label one of your posts as scummy does not necessarily mean that I think you're scum. Town also makes scummy posts all the time. It does mean, though, that I would be asking for clarification/intent/context behind the post to get a better indication of alignment. Umlaut explains their reasoning satisfactorily.
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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:52 am

Post by Raya36 »

Why is it scum oriented to jump on the biggest wagon?
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:53 am

Post by Raya36 »

In post 75, piisirrational wrote: Just an FYI: Just because I label one of your posts as scummy does not necessarily mean that I think you're scum. Town also makes scummy posts all the time. It does mean, though, that I would be asking for clarification/intent/context behind the post to get a better indication of alignment. Umlaut explains their reasoning satisfactorily.
This sounds like trying to hard to sound towny.
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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 1:59 am

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

In post 75, piisirrational wrote:
In post 42, Umlaut wrote: What's opportunistic about it? Is there someone else you think I should be voting instead, and if not then what's wrong with jumping onto the biggest wagon?
It just pinged me that you'd be jumping on the biggest wagons and that you were conveniently doing it, which can be justified by you moving your vote. I get that it was still the RVS phase but that was something that just stuck out.

@gibus: Why do you think the votes placed on you are not opportunistic and NAI? To me, the fact that you got three votes in such a short span of time for the same post is what felt opportunistic combined with Umlaut's switching of votes. If it's for any reason other than RVS, I would like to know.

Just an FYI: Just because I label one of your posts as scummy does not necessarily mean that I think you're scum. Town also makes scummy posts all the time. It does mean, though, that I would be asking for clarification/intent/context behind the post to get a better indication of alignment. Umlaut explains their reasoning satisfactorily.
VOTE: Pii.

This just feels like a lot of noise. The wagon wasn't RVS.
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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:00 am

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

The jumps on made it clear we were done.
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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:09 am

Post by piisirrational »

In post 77, Raya36 wrote:
In post 75, piisirrational wrote: Just an FYI: Just because I label one of your posts as scummy does not necessarily mean that I think you're scum. Town also makes scummy posts all the time. It does mean, though, that I would be asking for clarification/intent/context behind the post to get a better indication of alignment. Umlaut explains their reasoning satisfactorily.
This sounds like trying to hard to sound towny.
That's actually how I usually play though. gibus seemed to imply that I thought that Umlaut was scum, so I decided to clarify it.
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:20 am

Post by piisirrational »

In post 78, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:
In post 75, piisirrational wrote:
In post 42, Umlaut wrote: What's opportunistic about it? Is there someone else you think I should be voting instead, and if not then what's wrong with jumping onto the biggest wagon?
It just pinged me that you'd be jumping on the biggest wagons and that you were conveniently doing it, which can be justified by you moving your vote. I get that it was still the RVS phase but that was something that just stuck out.

@gibus: Why do you think the votes placed on you are not opportunistic and NAI? To me, the fact that you got three votes in such a short span of time for the same post is what felt opportunistic combined with Umlaut's switching of votes. If it's for any reason other than RVS, I would like to know.

Just an FYI: Just because I label one of your posts as scummy does not necessarily mean that I think you're scum. Town also makes scummy posts all the time. It does mean, though, that I would be asking for clarification/intent/context behind the post to get a better indication of alignment. Umlaut explains their reasoning satisfactorily.
VOTE: Pii.

This just feels like a lot of noise. The wagon wasn't RVS.
A non-RVS wagon forming during the RVS phase is very different than it forming way after that, as people like Umlaut would have less reason to move their vote over later. Just because the initial votes weren't random doesn't mean that the wagons formed now are similar to those formed much later. I specifically implied that it was still RVS when the wagon formed, not that the wagon itself was RVS.
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:37 am

Post by Raya36 »

In post 76, Raya36 wrote:Why is it scum oriented to jump on the biggest wagon?
Pi can you answer this?
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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:37 am

Post by keyenpeydee »

Vote count 1.03
Image

The Transgender Flag





(L-2) gibus
- Ghost Ganster, Umlaut, Raya36,
(2) Umlaut
- Snowblaze, piisirrational,
(2) piisirrational
- gibus, Elmo TeH AzN,
(1) Ghost Ganster
- Hectic,

(1) Not Voting
- Homura,


MOD NOTES
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With
9
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5
to lynch. Day One will end in
(expired on 2020-06-21 10:30:00)
.
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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:42 am

Post by Umlaut »

In post 78, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:VOTE: Pii.

This just feels like a lot of noise. The wagon wasn't RVS.
For what it's worth, I felt like the wagon was pretty random when I jumped onto it. I don't take Gibus' "scumclaim" seriously for a second and I definitely don't believe it's more likely to come from scum.

That said, I don't understand where Pi is coming from here and it bothers me. I just read five times and I still don't really know what he's saying. I also think deserves an answer.

VOTE: piisirational
because at least it's better than gibus.
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:39 am

Post by Ghost Ganster »

In post 53, Hectic wrote:Thank you! How about I only promise to troll on even posts? Odd posts will be completely, utterly, deadly serious.

What site do you come from, and do you think anything alignment-indicative has happened so far?
I'd rather not say what site, sorry. It's not for mafia-related reasons, though.

As for alignment-indicative things (and I'll list some things that are very borderline, here, just to further discussion, get more opinions and reactions):

-Umlaut's voting, mirroring and immediately following mine twice, looks so fishy that they actually feel like town (like "scum wouldn't do this", which is a faulty assumption, but you get where I'm coming from, I think).

-I'm generally wary of statements of facts that in actuality are opinions, so #30 (Elmo's post), looks slightly scummy, even if it's a joke (which is not clear to me).

-Raya answering your question about the most efficient way of "consuming" time as town, and then not doing it, basically at all, is slightly scummy as well.

-Your inside joking/weird hinting/trolling makes me very paranoid that I'm just not gonna be able to get a read on you and/or that I'll get annoyed at you, which will affect my opinion of you in an unhelpful way. I think being useful and cooperative is a good town trait, and in the vast majority of cases, not being so is either scummy or just good for scum.

-Snowblaze having exactly zero reads... I wouldn't say it's necessarily indicative of an alignment, but once again it's unhelpful, so it does raise my suspicions. I'm of the opinion that having bad reads (whatever "bad" means) is better than having none, so I personally would
force
myself to get some (if you get what I mean) in her shoes. Thankfully I'm paranoid enough that it's never going to happen, most likely. XD

-Elmo's following post was scummy as well. Not the vote itself, but the lack of an explanation and especially the one-liner used ("You can't make Lylo"), which I find very weird to say at this stage of the game.

-Your post, #68, is helpful but worded scummily, or at least the lack of an acknowledgement that you and Umlaut could both be scum is.

-Elmo's post, #69, gives me town vibes. I'm not sure I agree with it (unless here scum often makes very early hammers happen and gets away with it later?), but it's something that's worth noting in general and in a newbie game especially, and I don't think scum would do it. I feel that he could have found/bullshitted other reasons to explain his vote on Snowblaze in that case.

-Elmo's posts #78 and #79, go back to irk me, simply because I would say the wagon
was
still random voting, because at the end of the day it was based on gibus' scumclaim joke. Maybe we just have a different definition of it, though? I would be interested in knowing. Personally, I would equate random voting with "baseless", and I would include joke-votes under "baseless" as well. Am I off here?

-Raya's questions and especially the prod to get an answer (so mainly post #82) gives me a town vibe.

-Tonally, everything piisirrational in this last page feels like scum. I can't really put my finger on why, or at least, I don't know how exactly to explain it. Ironically enough, I think it's something about the need to explain, over-explain or needlessly explain (and not making a great job of it).

-It can be a bit dangerous to get a town read from a post simply because you totally agree with it, but that's what's happened when I read Umlaut's post just now.

In post 74, Raya36 wrote:
In post 52, Ghost Ganster wrote:
In post 27, Umlaut wrote:I'm curious about the newbies' past experience with Mafia here. Is this your first game? Did you play on another site first? Have you already played a game with anyone else in this one?
I played somewhat frequently for a while, a few years ago, on another site where mafia was more serious business than here. Or maybe it's just that the days were shorter so the levity lasted less by necessity? Either way, I'm still getting used to all the jokes, the in-site references and such. That was a one-way-ticket to lynch-town where I used to play! XD
Would you consider any of the joking to be AI in this game so far?
I answer this a little above, but to add something perhaps more precise, I'd say that hinting and muddying the waters is a surprisingly effective scum strategy, in my experience (it works in real life too! :( ).
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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:14 am

Post by gibus »

In post 75, piisirrational wrote: @gibus: Why do you think the votes placed on you are not opportunistic and NAI? To me, the fact that you got three votes in such a short span of time for the same post is what felt opportunistic combined with Umlaut's switching of votes. If it's for any reason other than RVS, I would like to know.
You misunderstood. How would you distinguish an
opportunistic
vote (L-2 or L-1) from one that isn't? I don't see the line, so I called it a buzzword (scumtell to me).
Also, you should outline how the action is AI (). Asking me why I find it NAI looks evasive.
In post 62, Hectic wrote:
In post 55, gibus wrote:I'll take that, roke.
_/¯\_
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
OI

Alright, fine. You can have your boot back if you return the hat:

| \__
|___|
Nani? You stole my boot? Looks like I've been Hectricked.
I'll keep both, thank you very much.
Spoiler:
__/¯\__
ᕦ( ͡ಠ ʖ̯ ͡ಠ)ᕤ

__/ | | \__
|___| |___|
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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:12 am

Post by Homura »

Umlaut, what's your actual read on gibus?
It is the pinnacle of all human emotion. More passionate than hope, much deeper than despair.

Love.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:42 am

Post by Umlaut »

Strong town vibes from Ganster's .
In post 87, Homura wrote:Umlaut, what's your actual read on gibus?
Pretty much null still, leaning town if I had to choose. I like his followup with Pi in but the original reasoning for voting him in is actually kind of meh. ("Opportunistic" is a bit of a buzzword, sure, but it's also a perfectly legitimate word with an actual meaning and a valid way to read something.) He pretty much ignored the wagon on him early on as far as I can tell, which is NAI.
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:40 am

Post by piisirrational »

In post 82, Raya36 wrote:
In post 76, Raya36 wrote:Why is it scum oriented to jump on the biggest wagon?
Pi can you answer this?
It is not scum-oriented to jump on the biggest wagon. Town does that but only when they have a good case to push. Umlaut's post 27 of bringing someone to L-2 with the reasoning of "bigger wagons are nicer," especially after already putting down an RVS vote, seemed more likely to come from scum than from town, even if minorly so. And hence, gibus, why I find it to not be NAI.

@gibus: To me, a vote is "opportunistic" if the person casting the vote already has a vote on someone else, but decides to switch over to a bigger wagon with the same/worse justification of voting the bigger wagon compared to the one they already voted.
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:11 pm

Post by Snowblaze »

Not too many posts to read through, which unfortunately means not too much chance at generating actual reads.

@Ghost Ganster: yes, I am aware that it’s not particularly helpful to have a lack of reads, but I think it would be even less helpful to generate forced reads I don’t have any faith in and start fixing my view of the game before I have enough evidence to go on.

Pi does try to look town as town - I completely disagree with the principle of caring about appearances as town, but pi has played like this as town before.

I agree that the gibus wagon was random joke-voting, as I said earlier.

I think I can overcome my paranoia enough to throw out townleans on Ghost Ganster and to a lesser extent gibus (because I feel like scum would be less likely to draw attention to themselves and attract an early wagon). No scum leans yet, but I’m getting there.
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:38 pm

Post by Homura »

Feels like pi town.
It is the pinnacle of all human emotion. More passionate than hope, much deeper than despair.

Love.
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:27 pm

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

VOTE: Snow

Feels like you are trying really hard right now
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 8:41 pm

Post by Snowblaze »

In post 92, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:VOTE: Snow

Feels like you are trying really hard right now
...how does that make me scum? I’m just throwing out whatever thoughts I have at the moment.
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:24 pm

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

Why are you getting defensive at a vote?
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:26 pm

Post by Ghost Ganster »

What's the general policy for and/or reaction to lurking, here?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Homura

Her posts have no content except for #91, which
hardly
counts. I don't mind lynching barely active players at all because I'd hate lose to lurker scum, and even just threatening to lynch a lurker, perhaps with a wagon, often pushes them (and sometimes others) into posting more, which is actually needed to get any kind of read on them. Plus, day 1 lynches tend to be a crapshoot anyway.

As of now, my preferred order for lynching would be something like Snowblaze, Elmo, piisirrational, gibus, Hectic, Raya, Umlaut.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:28 pm

Post by Homura »

In post 94, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:Why are you getting defensive at a vote?
Not a fan of Snow's posts, but I didn't read that as particularly defensive. What are you seeing?
It is the pinnacle of all human emotion. More passionate than hope, much deeper than despair.

Love.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:43 pm

Post by Elmo TeH AzN »

In post 93, Snowblaze wrote:
In post 92, Elmo TeH AzN wrote:VOTE: Snow

Feels like you are trying really hard right now
...how does that make me scum? I’m just throwing out whatever thoughts I have at the moment.
This just felt panicked. Odds are I'm wrong or they are frustrated. But to flip out over one vote just didn't feel right.
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Post Post #98 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:48 pm

Post by Snowblaze »

@Elmo: I wouldn’t say I’m getting defensive so much as not really understanding why you suspect me.

@Ghost Ganster: Homura has been relatively inactive as town in previous games.

Could you explain why you want me dead? And why you think Umlaut is town?

Pedit: I wasn’t flipping out or panicking at all.
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Post Post #99 (ISO) » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:31 pm

Post by gibus »

I feel better about pie ( and the meta reads , ).
I like Umlaut and GG's exchange here. Townreading both (Umlaut to a greater extent).

Snow and Elmo can't be scum together. Leaning town on .

@Raya, how did your read on pie progress?
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