Newbie 2010: Pride Month | Game Over

[keyenpeydee]

Vote count 1.08

The Genderfluid Flag

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(L-2) Elmo Teh AzN

- Snowblaze, Hectic, Umlaut,

(1) Umlaut

- piisirrational,

(1) Homura

- Ghost Ganster,

(1) Ghost Ganster

- Raya36,

(1) Snowblaze

- Elmo TeH AzN,

(1) Raya36

- gibus,

(1) Not Voting

- Homura,

MOD NOTES

: Good luck to everybody!
With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch. Day One will end in

(expired on 2020-06-21 10:30:00)

.
#BlackLivesMatter

[piisirrational]

You have a point about null reads but I think that applies much later on the game rather than 6 pages in. A lot of null reads this early is normal. A lot of scumreads this early doesn't sit well with me.

To clarify: I'm scumreading you because of your SR, not because you have a lot of nullreads.

Explain? This doesn't make sense. Raya's explanation of why she finds Ghost scummy ("I honestly think Ghost's list of scumreads was setting up mislynches and if any gained traction he would push that one." and how she disagreed with Ghost's suggestion of a policy lynch) is perfectly valid and I don't see any scum motivation here for Raya to push Ghost.

Not a fan. It's another "defend someone and ask the accuser to elaborate" kind of post. They're not hard for scum to make, and I want to see more independent thoughts, turtle.

I'm not sold on Elmo being scum. She seems pretty aggressive with how she's voting people, but I don't think scum are usually this aggressive in their play. However, the only thing I can attribute to her continual movement of votes and reactions as town is as some form of reaction test (can't really explain much beyond this because this just feels like a possibility in this context). Reaction tests aren't useful though unless information is gained from them so I'd like Elmo to explain the motivation behind her movement of votes at some point.

Hmm, following the trend here. I don't get why you think town!Elmo can only be doing this as reaction tests. Why can't it just be playstyle? This is a perfect way for you to look like you're defending town but without an actual valid reason, since scum!you might expect town!Elmo to absolutely not be doing reaction testing, so you don't need to worry about actually derailing the wagon.

In the first post, I actually don't see how you can scumread someone simply because they're scumreading someone you think as town. That's why I needed clarification on that part. Don't like how you're framing this post as me accusing the accuser of being scum and passively defending them when I'm simply asking for more clarification.

I stated that I find it that town!Elmo would be making posts 94 and 97 for a reaction test. How likely do I think it is for another reason? Not likely. It's still possible, which is why I want Elmo to clarify the reasoning/motivation behind those posts despite me giving her a slight townlean. Also, I don't like how you're saying how I would be worried about derailing a town wagon. I stated why I don't think Elmo is scum; not jumping on the wagon because of that is NAI.

Don't like your responses to either of my posts.

VOTE: Hectic

[Hectic]

However, the only thing I can attribute to her continual movement of votes and reactions as town is as some form of reaction test

This suggests the only way you could see town!Elmo is if she was doing what she was doing for reactions. You've said you don't think she's scum in the same post, but then given a weird condition she needs to fulfil for her to be town. If you're scum, you're essentially soft-defending the wagon without actually giving people reasons to hop off.

Regarding the first point, I'm not framing it as that, it's more the fact those type of posts are an easy way to look busy as scum.

I do appreciate the vote of confidence though <3

[piisirrational]

I'm not sold on Elmo being scum. She seems pretty aggressive with how she's voting people, but I don't think scum are usually this aggressive in their play. However, the only thing I can attribute to her continual movement of votes and reactions as town is as some form of reaction test (can't really explain much beyond this because this just feels like a possibility in this context). Reaction tests aren't useful though unless information is gained from them so I'd like Elmo to explain the motivation behind her movement of votes at some point.

Can you go over these reaction tests and see what reactions they caused and whether information was gained and what it could have meant?

Well Elmo's 94 and 97 in particular seemed formatted to test someone's reaction to their posts, as I saw something similar to that in an off-site game I played where the person doing the "reaction test" said they were doing it for that purpose and flipped town at the end. It's not really indicative that the posts were made for reaction testing, which is why I still want her to explain the motivation behind making the posts. The reaction tests reason was just a guess on my part, but to me it's the most probable guess which is why I suggested that idea.

[piisirrational]

However, the only thing I can attribute to her continual movement of votes and reactions as town is as some form of reaction test

This suggests the only way you could see town!Elmo is if she was doing what she was doing for reactions. You've said you don't think she's scum in the same post, but then given a weird condition she needs to fulfil for her to be town. If you're scum, you're essentially soft-defending the wagon without actually giving people reasons to hop off.

I don't see that as a weird condition; I see it as the most probable explanation for why town!Elmo would be making those posts. Just because

I

can't attribute it to anything else doesn't mean that other people can't; that's also one of the reasons why I wanted Elmo to clarify this.

I also don't see how saying that someone making posts such as 94 and 97 could be a reaction test doesn't give anyone reasons to hop off of their wagon. Town is more likely to do reaction tests than scum because scum doesn't actually need the information gained from doing one to do so, while at the same time drawing attention to themselves for pushing such tests. Meaning that if you agree with me, then you would probably hop off of the wagon as someone pushing hard for a reaction test like Elmo did is town-indicative.

[Raya36]

Do you think scum would force a town read on me?

I don't know, but in Snow's case it doesn't match her paranoid tone (56,90)

She did call is a very slight town lean though or something along those lines. It still came across as wary to me.

[Raya36]

I'd be interested to hear that town lean explained more actually.

Do you think scum would force a town read on me?

Yes. You tend to be a hard person for me to read.

I honestly thought I was pretty easy to read

[Raya36]

Yes, and I explained it in the post in which I actually vote for her. And with the second part I mean: you say it looks like I'm setting up mislynches and if any gained traction I would have pushed that one. So I'm asking you: how do you explain that I didn't do it, then? How do you explain that I didn't push Elmo's when it gained traction? Or perhaps Snowblaze's or piisirrational's?

I can't explain it and that probably means I'm wrong. UNVOTE: Ghost

Scummy is different from unhelpful, but unhelpful is good for scum. It follows that scum likes it when people are unhelpful and is on average more likely to be unhelpful as well. There's no contradiction there. And to say that I could use that to call them town looks very dishonest, because as you pointed it out yourself, I said it's either NAI or suspicious. There is absolutely no room for me to townread them with it.

To be clear I don't mean townread them with specifically that point. I mean townread them in general later without that point holding you back.

[Raya36]

(In response to your next post, I am most definitely town or scum)

I'm glad you cleared that up for me

Not so fast. If I've learnt one thing about Umlaut over the years, it's that he's incredibly deceptive and will lie 90% of the time, as any alignment. Don't rule him out as a mere town or scum just yet.

Hm well if he lies 90% of the time then chances are he isn't town or scum! He must be a fool! Don't lynch Umlaut!!

[Raya36]

Since I lie 90% of the time you should just assume the opposite of everything I say is true. Except for that last sentence. And that one. And that one...

I think my brain just broke. He must be a fool. This confirms it.

[Raya36]

You have a point about null reads but I think that applies much later on the game rather than 6 pages in. A lot of null reads this early is normal. A lot of scumreads this early doesn't sit well with me.

To clarify: I'm scumreading you because of your SR, not because you have a lot of nullreads.

Explain? This doesn't make sense. Raya's explanation of why she finds Ghost scummy ("I honestly think Ghost's list of scumreads was setting up mislynches and if any gained traction he would push that one." and how she disagreed with Ghost's suggestion of a policy lynch) is perfectly valid and I don't see any scum motivation here for Raya to push Ghost.

Not a fan. It's another "defend someone and ask the accuser to elaborate" kind of post. They're not hard for scum to make, and I want to see more independent thoughts, turtle.

I'm not sold on Elmo being scum. She seems pretty aggressive with how she's voting people, but I don't think scum are usually this aggressive in their play. However, the only thing I can attribute to her continual movement of votes and reactions as town is as some form of reaction test (can't really explain much beyond this because this just feels like a possibility in this context). Reaction tests aren't useful though unless information is gained from them so I'd like Elmo to explain the motivation behind her movement of votes at some point.

Hmm, following the trend here. I don't get why you think town!Elmo can only be doing this as reaction tests. Why can't it just be playstyle? This is a perfect way for you to look like you're defending town but without an actual valid reason, since scum!you might expect town!Elmo to absolutely not be doing reaction testing, so you don't need to worry about actually derailing the wagon.

Hectic, I see you're trying to get a mislynch...

[Homura]

Ghost vote = Soft vote. An FoS.

Not sure how that was misconstrued.

[Homura]

Why is being unsubtle scummy?

It’s unsubtle because the questions on literally every single point in my post is not only excessive but feels less like wanting a statement from me than making a statement on me himself. Everything about my play — what I did, even what I didn’t do, is wrong or scummy or bad. There’s no sense of “I’m not sure if this player is town and I want to find out by asking about their motivations and reasoning to find out” and more “I really want to get this player lynched no matter what”. But that’s since been admitted so the point is moot — that’s what it felt like at the time.

I had him as town for his overall play besides this, but writing this post makes me feel that the push was a lot more bad-faithy than I originally felt.

[Homura]

Or maybe I’m just aggravated in general by the amount of strawmen my posts are being made into. And all coming from my townreads.

I feel like I barely got to play the game.

[Hectic]

Why does it look like that, Raya? I'm just voicing any suspicions I have. He's not my top scumread, and I actually like his recent responses to me, though it took me several tries to read and understand what he was saying.

Okay, Homura, I can see where you're coming from there. You mean that his rapid fire questioning is more designed to make you look bad than for him to actually gauge your alignment.

[Hectic]

I haven't checked the role table yet. Is jester on there? I'm getting jester vibes from someone but I don't want to say just in case they're one of those dayvig jester types.

[Elmo TeH AzN]

I'll catch up later. 55+ hrs a week is beating me down

[Umlaut]

Why does it look like that, Raya? I'm just voicing any suspicions I have. He's not my top scumread, and I actually like his recent responses to me, though it took me several tries to read and understand what he was saying.

Okay, Homura, I can see where you're coming from there. You mean that his rapid fire questioning is more designed to make you look bad than for him to actually gauge your alignment.

I don't like either part of this post.

First part looks like you're seeing you misread the room on Pi and backpedaling on that push.

Second part is... actually not awful, I guess, but has a distinct "I get you, let's be friends :)" tone that I find un-towny.

I'll catch up later. 55+ hrs a week is beating me down

Sigh. I hope you find time soon.

[Umlaut]

That said,

@Pi

Why are you still voting me? Last time you talked about it you were saying you didn't even really think I was scum. Did you decide I was at some point or do you just still have no scumreads two days later?

The fact you've changed your vote doesn't relieve you from answering this.

[piisirrational]

That said,

@Pi

Why are you still voting me? Last time you talked about it you were saying you didn't even really think I was scum. Did you decide I was at some point or do you just still have no scumreads two days later?

The fact you've changed your vote doesn't relieve you from answering this.

I usually only change my vote when something pings me really hard, which nothing since your wagons comment has until Hectic’s post.

[piisirrational]

Going to bed right now so I’ll explain more tomorrow.

[Hectic]

I get you, turtle. Have a good night and let's be friends [:

[Hectic]

Umlaut, why do I need to scumread and then backpedal on turtle as scum? They're not my top scumread and I wasn't pushing them. What's the point?

[Hectic]

Grego
Aya
Swan
Norati
Busi
Amu
Talum
Melena

[gibus]

99: Hey, gibus. How'd you know Homura was applying a meta read on turtle in 91? Was it because of this post?

I didn't. Why?