In post 1123, Blair wrote:Mediation isn't inherently scummy (almost nothing is), but it's easy to coast on because you will get town points for doing it 99.5% of the time.
As for your scum meta, I actually thought your early posts were strikingly similar to your posts in our scum game together (and Glitch is not actually wrong that your tone did shift at a certain point) - enough so that I was actually scumreading you when I was skimming the game the first time I tried to sub in for Rozyroz.
I'm interested to hear why you feel you are playing differently here than in our last game together.
I think my questions there were noticeably bad that game, e.g. this post:
In post 111, Blair wrote:If he genuinely believes weak openings are scum tells, that might explain why he avoided RVS althogether. It feels like he avoided early game so he could make pushes like this without any risk of looking hypocritical.
I like this reasoning overall I think
My one hangup rn is, if Maxwell is scum and (presumably) trying to survive, why handout a townread on rozyroz so immediately? If he's scum and rozyroz is town that's a fairly easy avenue to throw shade or pressure, Dunnstral already highlighted it, why does he instead opt for a townread which might make it harder for him to vote there later?
In post 108, Rozyroz wrote:Correction: none of those players have said enough to make me suspicious of them
I'm thinking a lot about the likelihood of scum vs town RVS voting me and then making this correction 1-2 minutes later
I think overall I want to say it'd be
really bold
as scum to plan to just outright vote me, a leading wagon, and claim: a) that I haven't posted anything, and then b) actually, it's that nothing I've posted has made them suspicious. Because they would know if I'm lynched I'm going to flip town and everyone is gonna look at this vote and critique why it was made.
At the same time, how can town read the game and not be suspicious of anything anyone has posted?? Why would town RVS vote instead of trying to at least take a stand on something and advance the game, even if only to an incremental degree?
Does anyone have any really strong thoughts here? I'm probably landing on the 'newbie town' side, but it's odd enough that I can't rule it out as scum.
Her second post seemed more like an ebwop/clarification rather than a bold declaration that you haven't made any content - I doubt she was actually claiming that you haven't posted anything. I think it's NAI
In post 123, Clover Ebi wrote:I'm not calling you a newbie! I just think your entire viewpoint on how people would play is something I would expect from one. If that makes sense.
Why was this a scummy thing to say?
Me posting a funny meme when there was serious discussion going on in-thead that maxwell called out was 100% true:
In post 190, Blair wrote:I did accept it. You quoted my acceptance.
Okay, just making sure. Ironically that means a blair/t-bone team is pretty unlikely, seeing as my vote on rozy would give them the win while going after me would ensure a loss. Possibly they could just not be thinking about that possibility but I'd think they'd want to avoid that degree of direct confrontation. I still like my plan with my vote on rozy better (because cat scratch fever needs to die, especially after 191, and the thought of them being in final 3 annoys me) but I'll gladly consent to being the day 1 vote if town agrees to follow my plan (I'll post contingency strategies for scum killing a non-celeste space if that is what people decide on).
Biggest tell is me ducking out of the thread for long periods as scum to avoid real-time interactions... in a blitz game
GuiltyLion recognizing I'm playing differently this game is the reaction I expect from people who have looked at my play in this game and the one I just linked (where I was scum)
In post 1040, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Actually Blair, unless you plan to case CSF hard and get a lot of people on your side, i'd much prefer it if you joined the NDMath wagon since it's got more votes and game needs a lynch right now. I sense apathy with the lack of posting lately.
this is an odd post from a slot that is otherwise fairly towny
This is an odd shade from a slot that has otherwise mostly ignored me.
In post 828, NDMath wrote:I'm not understanding the attacks on osuka.
What's there to not understand?
Osuka's posts comprise of the brief fight with Quick, a lot of posts facepalming at Truth which are mostly meaningless, and a very lazy and unsubstantiated push on me.
I scumreads the way that Osuka talks about my posting as "weird" repeatedly without ever explaining weird how—it's exactly the kind of shallow shade throwing without being able to come up with a proper case/narrative that signifies scum pushes vs town ones, especially at an opportune time when others like CSF were FoSing me.
He has repeatedly tried to misconstrue the way I have tried to explain his meta to the game as buddying, even though I've repeatedly told him and everyone else why I said what I did about him and wasn't at buddying. He's not engaging with my push at all or answering my question.
I read osuka's iso, I should have done that in the first place.
What conclusions did you draw from this? Did this impact your read on osuka or Nauci?
There were only two subs total in that game, by the way.
Not sure where you're going with it, though.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
There were only two subs total in that game, by the way.
Not sure where you're going with it, though.
There was 18. I checked.
Cat Scratch Fever and Beeboy were the only subs. You checked the wrong game.
Pretty sure you're referencing an ongoing game.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
So you understand you ducked into a conversation about CSF's last scum game and asked a leading question about this game instead, with no indication that you were changing the subject, yeah?
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
If osuka is scum we should lynch him tomorrow, I enjoy his posts.
“There is nothing so dangerous for anyone who has something to hide as conversation! A human being [...] cannot resist the opportunity to reveal himself and express his personality which conversation gives him. Every time he will give himself away.” -Hercule Poirot
Not like super confident about that, but I think he is a slow burn town player anyway, and his alignment will become more evident as time passes
But the main reason I think he's town is because of his interaction with Guilty. There's already more engagement here than what I'm seeing from his scum game
In post 722, NDMath wrote:I don't buy you thought that it was very scummy unless you can be more specific as to why.
alright, if you ask for it I will indulge!
1. first things first, I didn't like opening with the "let's see if I can remember why I quoted these posts!", feels really performative and buddying up to the thread. feels like you're mindful of how people are going to perceive your entry
2. next, a number of your questions are useless, they don't need to be answered and I don't see how they will generate useful content. Often because there's more content later that makes the answers to the questions irrelevant, or because they're just kinda empty things to discuss. It seems pretty clear that Quick thought at least the 'hood' aspect of Truth's claim was legitimate. CSF has posted a bunch of content to work with, who cares about "avoiding" RVS? Do you really think that's the most indicative thing you could comment on in the first 150 posts, or even the most indicative thing about CSF's play in the game?
3. You also make a number of really hedgey or pointless comments. "Usually pushing for NL comes from scum" (hard disagree btw), "but here it's probably closer to null". Okay? Do you scumread Candy Shop or not? "I find this a likely town mindset though not necessarily townie". What? What's the point of that comment at all?
4. Next, you just voted/unvoted and peaced out. I think town should be at least putting a vote down in that situation to advance the game, even if they're not fully caught up yet. you STILL haven't voted. What are you doing to actually help catch/kill scum? How does town benefit at all from your presence in the game if you're not participating in any wagons?
5. Finally, adding your next post into the mix, it's not really clear to me
at all
why you have any of the reads that you do. Your reads list has most of the players in the game in ambiguous nully tiers with no explanation given as to how they got to be there or where you'd feel comfortable voting. Why am I lower than Candyshop, who is lower than everyone else in the game? Do you think I'm more likely scum? If both myself and Candyshop were at L-1 and you were holding the hammer, you'd vote me over Candy Shop - why? Why are Glitch/Nauci below the four players above them? Would you vote to lynch either of those slots today?
6. None of it is content that is useful to me to help understand your thought process or suggests that you're taking initiative to solve the game for your benefit or anyone else's. It all feels very timid and blendy, like you're just posting a formulaic template of what you think town posts are supposed to look like.
(Numbers Inserted)
1. I am a very self-conscious player. So yes I care how people perceive my entry.
2. Funny enough, both examples you cite are actually looker's words due to it spoilering weirdly.
@Looker
3. Pushing for NL coming from scum is from personal experience it has come from scum more times than town. At the moment in time I wasn't sure, as of completing the catchup I scumread the slot. The comment on tstbs meant that I felt quick's mindset was that of a townie, but I believed it was probably something that mafia could/would fake. I decided to keep it I guess?
4. Voting was accidental due to looker's post quoting weird. I didn't see value in voting at that point in time. I don't get why I can't be not voting in peace when it's still early in the dayphase and I'm not one to case early on. I'm helping just as much without voting in that you got the impression that if I did vote it would be for you and received the same amount of pressure from it, I don't get that point at all.
5. The purpose of the readlist was to summarize the catchup and fill in what wasn't said in terms of reads. I'm more willing to hang the further down the list, and I tend to be a more defensive player in that I prefer not having my townreads hung to getting my scumreads hung.
6. I'm not comprehending this paragraph.
In post 791, GuiltyLion wrote:so I just tried to casually skim through NDMath town/scum to see if he always plays this poorly and it looks like this dude has never been scum yet on MS lmao
however, in his completed town games, he's definitely more goal-oriented in terms of votes/pressure and shows the ability to make insightful analysis, compared to what he's offered so far here.
<snip bc spoiler tag>
This is like page 7-8 or whatever of that game and ALL of these posts stand out more to me in terms of trying to sort players, generate content, and share reads to influence than thread than anything you've done here so far. I'll grant you that maybe it's been harder in this game because pages and pages were generated while you weren't around, but tbh if you're town in this game, you'd be far better served just quoting singular posts and giving takes like you did in 227 than doing the giant fluff walls filled with empty statements like you've given us so far.
I interpreted the post as being annoyed they didn't have as many townreads as they would like, and picked you because of prior experience and not having posted as much as other slots.
I scumread candyshop because of his no hang argument and lack of things I see town motivation in. Nauci/glitch I didn't like a few posts from and had them just under null. I strongly scumread you, mainly from your norwee interaction. But basically both of 5/6 are complaints that I didn't attach reasons to my readlist, and I don't see what's inherently wrong with that as it can be clarified and most of the reads weren't very strong.
I meant it more so as I need to first get a grasp on the game.
I guess I don't see/get the difference other than I haven't asked anyone for reads since everyone's given some.
If you look at NDMath's ISO in his scum game (it's very short I promise lol), his reasons for scumreading people feel vague (e.g. the "probably groupthink" line lol). He also interacts differently with his professed scumreads - his posts are dismissive in a way that doesn't encourage further back and forth conversation.
Probably group think.
There isn't much I consider townie in your posts. The Albert to you to Dunn chain pass yesterday but then specifically focusing on Dunn to me, I don't really understand. I've already stated that your TSE interaction is looking w/w. Making a scum team entirely out of quiz 1 people, especially not including spring, looks crazy for you to actually believe. Your 'desperation' to be on the quiz today also looked bad.
Let's see this go through. Another deny is proscum IMO.
I don't get why the chainleaders keep saying denying is Proscum? There's nothing to back that up, and info can be gathered for late game from split approve/denies.
In post 2638, midwaybear wrote:He’s passing it to Dunnstral
If not, he’s giving it to Pink Ball
Mark my words
You are so smart.
I get the sense that he doesn't go after GuiltyLion if he were scum.
I think he's being scumread for largely NAI reasons (NAI for him), like forgetting to use his vote. He also generally seems to be a lynchbaity type of player who gets mislynchedalot
