Open 784 - Hard-Boiled (Town Wins!)


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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:28 pm

Post by Doctor Drew »

In post 523, word321 wrote:nash is american, potato is danish
Pardon me, but I was talking to votato.
'This might be the first game where I'm townreading Doctor Drew. Not sure if that's a good or bad sign considering he was town the previous 2 times' - Hectic
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:29 pm

Post by Doctor Drew »

In post 525, Doctor Drew wrote:
In post 523, word321 wrote:nash is american, potato is danish
Pardon me, but I was talking to votato.
Also.....I should learn to read better haha.
'This might be the first game where I'm townreading Doctor Drew. Not sure if that's a good or bad sign considering he was town the previous 2 times' - Hectic
'Like I am trying to not be a tunnelly asshole Drew but my patience is running thin' - Titus
'ok just make sure to fuck them, preferably not us pls (人>ω<)' - Morning Tweet
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:18 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 514, votato wrote:
In post 511, Nash wrote:
In post 507, votato wrote:
In post 505, word321 wrote:
In post 500, votato wrote:and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.
why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum
because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.
Does this really come from the votato in ? You do realise that having conftown is +EV?
im not suggesting we dont do anything to out the hider results postmortem. im just saying that the specific thing that word suggested was bad. the original plan was better imo.
I think Word's plan is fine. If it's done in an effectively random order it's not manipulatable by scum (i.e. scum all choose to target each other, making them immune to the hider), which extends the shelf-life to maybe 2 nights rather than 1.

So we will use the player list in the OP to do it, but you will target the player ABOVE you, rather than below. (as everyone agrees I'm conftown, makes sense that I decide the order right?) :cool:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Midari criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:50 pm

Post by JacksonVirgo »

In post 527, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 514, votato wrote:
In post 511, Nash wrote:
In post 507, votato wrote:
In post 505, word321 wrote:
In post 500, votato wrote:and it completely nerfs the investigative power of the hider.
why? he dies upon contact. how can that be nerfed? its literally unavoidable as scum
because random targeting limits the potential. we only have like 2-3 investigations. we should investigate the scummiest people.
Does this really come from the votato in ? You do realise that having conftown is +EV?
im not suggesting we dont do anything to out the hider results postmortem. im just saying that the specific thing that word suggested was bad. the original plan was better imo.
I think Word's plan is fine. If it's done in an effectively random order it's not manipulatable by scum (i.e. scum all choose to target each other, making them immune to the hider), which extends the shelf-life to maybe 2 nights rather than 1.

So we will use the player list in the OP to do it, but you will target the player ABOVE you, rather than below. (as everyone agrees I'm conftown, makes sense that I decide the order right?) :cool:

UNVOTE: VOTE: Midari criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.
Mod NoteUnsure what you meant here so I will say you voted Midari
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:53 pm

Post by Battle Mage »

that's right, thanks Mod
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:56 pm

Post by JacksonVirgo »

VC 1.9
Marashu (3)
- Deimos27, superbowl9, Worcestershire
Battle Mage (1)
- Tuxedo Mask
Nash (1)
- ceejayvinoya
Tuxedo Mask (2)
- Marashu, brassherald
Midari Ikishima (4)
- Doctor Drew, votato, word321, Battle Mage
Wocestershire (1)
- Midari Ikishima
votato (1)
- Nash

With 7 votes as hammer... Midari Ikishima is at L-3

Deadline:
(expired on 2020-07-07 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

Joined Mod iso

votato V/LA from Friday to Monday
brassherald V/LA until Monday
Midari Ikishima V/LA until Tuesday
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:09 pm

Post by Midari Ikishima »

In post 527, Battle Mage wrote:criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.
Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.

How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:10 pm

Post by Midari Ikishima »

This quickly is turning into let's get a midari wagon they must be scum since they don't like the plan.
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:59 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 531, Midari Ikishima wrote:
In post 527, Battle Mage wrote:criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.
Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.


How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.
There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante. Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker. As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:02 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 532, Midari Ikishima wrote:This quickly is turning into let's get a midari wagon they must be scum since they don't like the plan.
On the contrary, you were well worth a tickle before going out on that limb, and I just needed that little something extra to win me over. I reckon scum could be worried about this plan and try to fight it with ill-considered rationale, as you have done. Resorting immediately to ad hominem is not going to persuade anyone.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:07 am

Post by Battle Mage »

Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:39 am

Post by brassherald »

Yo, you guys posted alot this weekend and I don't feel like reading that much today between my hearings.

What is the plan that Midari doesn't like?
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:07 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 536, brassherald wrote:Yo, you guys posted alot this weekend and I don't feel like reading that much today between my hearings.

What is the plan that Midari doesn't like?
We're going to give the hider some cover, and make sure we know who they targetted in case they die, by everyone agreeing a target for tonight in the thread
only if they were the hider.


I got to choose the format as I'm the tippy top townie of the day. Everyone will target the person directly above them in the player list on the first page.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:09 am

Post by brassherald »

Cool, sounds good to me.
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:09 am

Post by brassherald »

I guess Hider!pii replacement targets the bottom person so that we have an ouroboros of players?
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:13 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 539, brassherald wrote:I guess Hider!pii replacement targets the bottom person so that we have an ouroboros of players?
exactly.

now, how do you feel about riding on Midari for a bit? Just to see how she reacts?
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:18 am

Post by brassherald »

Is it just because she doesn't want to follow the plan?
I've only made one good post, and don't you dare accuse me of doing it again.
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:28 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 541, brassherald wrote:Is it just because she doesn't want to follow the plan?
no, for me it was mostly some dodgy voting patterns before that. Others have other reasons I'm sure.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:31 am

Post by brassherald »

Okay, just wanted to be sure.

This is L-2, if I can math right.

VOTE: Midari
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:25 am

Post by Marashu »

In post 332, Battle Mage wrote: Doesn't seem like you've thought the votato stuff through! I could buy that you might think that scum-BM would see votato as an easy mislynch, and want to pursue that.
But do you really think that my strategy for doing that would be to openly suggest
wagonning him while he is V/LA
, without giving any reasons, or even voting him myself? It's completely implausible that BM-scum actually thinks he can achieve a mislynch with that approach. Additionally, if you're suggesting I think votato's lynchbait, why would I need to wait until he's V/LA? Surely the opposite is true. Moreover, I don't even agree with your characterisation of him, so that's your opinion, not mine.
From what I had seen at the time, that was within the range of scum!BM. Your the quality of posts shifted radically since.
In post 333, Battle Mage wrote: If Pi is null for you, you obviously haven't graduated from the BM-school of scumhunting.
Kept failing the prereq course,
Rolling town 101
. Hoping to make do with trial-by-fire and practical experience until then.
In post 341, Deimos27 wrote: How do you reach the conclusion that scum was on both Midari
and
on Pi?
Tuxedo was on Midari. Pi looked to me like a good place for scum to hide because Pi seemed an easy, inactive wagon.
In post 380, superbowl9 wrote:Why do you townread votato @ all the ppl who townread votato (these are just the ppl I jotted down who said smth about towntato)
Meta, mostly. towntato likes to try to steer conversation towards himself, and I spotted him doing that a couple times here.

PS - my work schedule this week is weird. I'll still be working but I'll also be available during the day this week.
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:36 am

Post by Midari Ikishima »

In post 535, Battle Mage wrote:Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!
It's not. Keep trying.

In post 533, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 531, Midari Ikishima wrote:
In post 527, Battle Mage wrote:criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.
Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.


How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.
There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante.
Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker.
As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?
Rude cause you can't think about something going against the grain for other reasons. K.

I'm not outting myself and other accts to prove a theory.

Open 452i MattP/Sawyer Vig
Open 507 DrCirmo Vig

Ill be back Wed/Thurs.
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:49 am

Post by superbowl9 »

In post 504, Doctor Drew wrote: But, why do you assume that Midari is a noob? Lots of 2020 join dates here, why her?
I view noob as more of a posting style/mindset than join date, someone fresh off newbies could be a great player, but if they seem like they don't know the most effective ways to argue certain cases or are unfamiliar with terms like Worchestire, then I would label them as a noob if that makes sense
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:18 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 545, Midari Ikishima wrote:
In post 535, Battle Mage wrote:Ah this is Midari's first game as scum!
It's not. Keep trying.
I looked at your topic list, read all of your completed games, and you were town in all of them.

If I missed one, you are welcome to prove me wrong by linking to it.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:26 am

Post by Battle Mage »

In post 545, Midari Ikishima wrote:
In post 533, Battle Mage wrote:
In post 531, Midari Ikishima wrote:
In post 527, Battle Mage wrote:criticising the plan which is clearly in interest of town, on top of everything else.
Reeeee you don't like the plan you are anti town. I give a situation where you create a false positive but you don't want to hear it? The density of the people in this game is bar none crazy. Instead of entertaining the idea of ANY OTHER PLAN we just have to use a semi random order and not use logic with THIS GTFO.
This is illogical for numerous reasons. And don't tell me "the mafia will target each other"

Answer me your after rubbing your two brain cells together.


How many PRs are in the game?

So directing one on a suicide mission is the way to go? Get out.
There's no need to be rude. You're simply wrong here, and with the greatest respect, I have more recent experience of this setup than you do, and am well placed to advise on strategy. I can be wrong of course, or indeed I could be scum trying to manipulate the town (although it's quite apparent above that you know that's not a possibility) but to call me an I'm an idiot when I highlight your error is not a good look.

The false positive argument you made is predicated on the idea of a vigilante.
Town should never have a vigilante in this setup, because the player should always choose tracker.
As such, there should be no false positive issue. I had thought that was so obvious it didn't warrant mentioning, so apologies I wasn't clear enough at the outset.

Can you please point me to other games where you've had a similar unprompted meltdown as town when you've gone against the consensus and come under slight pressure?
Rude cause you can't think about something going against the grain for other reasons. K.

I'm not outting myself and other accts to prove a theory.
You're an alt of somebody? I wonder if I could find out by looking at the banlist? :lol:

The bottom line is, unless there is a legit newbie in this setup, there isn't going to be a vig, so it doesn't matter. And even if you think someone might be dumb enough to pick Vig over Tracker, the odds of that, multiplied by the odds of the hider hitting them vs scum, make your "false positive" an exceptionally remote possibility - much more remote than the likelihood that they hit scum on Night 1, and die without us getting anything from it because we don't know who they visited. It's just basic maths dude.

Your objection about the Vig makes even less sense because, it doesn't really affect the validity of the gameplan for the hider. The hider dies if they visit a vig, regardless of whether they claimed their target or not.
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2020 Stats - 31 completed games:

Survived to the end and won - 11
Nightkilled - 10
Survived to the end and lost - 6
Day-elimmed by majority - 4

winrate as scum: 78%
winrate as town: 55%
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:41 am

Post by Tuxedo Mask »

We're going to do a quick ELI5!

@ BM lay out the exact plan for the hider and what we learn from it? Would it be likely we carry this plan out day 2?

@Midari what are the flaws with the plan? What do you propose as an alternative?
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