Open 785: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Game over!]

[northsidegal]

Votecount 1.19

Snowblaze

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(4):

HoldenGolden (511), Menalque (532), Ydrasse (552), Almost50 (570)

Mohab500

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(3):

Umlaut (596), Fredrick A Campbell (608), Eevee (622)

RCEnigma

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(2):

Snowblaze (415), Mohab500 (502)

HoldenGolden

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(1):

Raya36 (495)

Not Voting

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(3):

Something_Smart, Chemist1422, RCEnigma (612)

With 13 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. The Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2020-07-14 12:17:59).

[Eevee]

So, I am just wondering some stuff regarding the setup. From what I've read, does scum auto-win once they reach day 5? and why would them getting lynched Day 1 and Day 2 instantly end the game if there are supposed to be 3 players?

meaningless wagon as all wagons are early on. UNVOTE:

I am gonna ask a really dumb question but, can there be power roles in this game?

Can I get some idea of the current wagon? skimmed the last few pages but everything seems so disconnected to me, I am not sure what's going on anymore.

Honestly unsure of what to do at the moment. can someone provide a summary of what the fuck happened in the last few pages? I don't understand what's going on anymore.

From what I understand: push on holden initially makes sense, but seeing as they're apparently V/LA, shouldn't be a cause for a push anymore.

Also really disappointed in the constant replace outs, I know I would've done the same if I had something that made me busy (in fact, I am still considering replacing out atm), but it's hard for me to form any reads properly when the player changes midway.

I would give a speech about not rushing but since we only have three days, I need you guys to speak up. For me, the RCE wagon still seems OK to me. This is fairly hypocritical of me but the low presence or inactive players as well as the replace-outs probably have the bulk of scum in them. I'll evaluate later in more detail and give more precise reads. VOTE: RCEngima for now.

what's even going on anymore lol

all of these posts are scummy imo - confused/lost to excuse lack of content complaining about replace outs and a healthy dose of LAMIST sprinkled in - this doesn't match what town!her is like

this is much more likely to flip scum than Snow i feel - let's vote here please

~Eve

[Eevee]

I don't know exactly how confident. More than I am in anyone else by far, and enough to vote probably anyone else to keep him from being killed today.

The reason is that 599 draws suspicion onto him in return for having a perfect alibi for being on the wagon. By unvoting, he's not revoking the suspicion-- it still looks like a potentially opportunistic vote-- but he is relinquishing the position on the wagon that was presumably very important to his survival as scum. To get back on the wagon he'd have to pretend to be unimpressed by Snowblaze's content and generate a new excuse, which will draw suspicion.

Also, like, he doesn't want to let up on Snowblaze as scum since he's likely on the chopping block if Snowblaze talks herself down. The unvote shows that he's actually invested in letting her give her defense, so either he's doing it as a play to look good, or he's just town. And being not the most charismatic player I would not expect him to try a reverse psychology play like that when he could go the more direct route of just remaining on and trying to get her hammered, which wouldn't have even made him look bad.

alright cool

~Eve

[Eevee]

Menalque would be a possible partner for Mohab if she is scum with the way he called her obvlious town when i just don't get that feel really

~Eve

[Eevee]

here's Mohab's ISO in partition: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

it's night and day

vote Mohab if you'd like to perform in the play!!!

~Eve

[Raya36]

Sorry about the short catch up. Hurt my hand, sucks to type.

I think Fredrick is ok. No slip there. Unless he backpedaled hard and successfully

Sorry guys, was really not engaged with this game yet and discouraged when I came in and couldn't find anything to comment on.

VOTE: Fredrick
Going to start off again with this

What was going on here, raya?

Me trying to re-engage myself

Okay but like why did you vote fredrick to do so?

Thought it might go somewhere. It did not.

I think Fredrick is ok. No slip there. Unless he backpedaled hard and successfully

Sorry guys, was really not engaged with this game yet and discouraged when I came in and couldn't find anything to comment on.

VOTE: Fredrick
Going to start off again with this

What was going on here, raya?

Me trying to re-engage myself

What do you think of my snow vote.

Engage with me

I agree with your reasoning and I can definitely see that. On a reread of her iso I'm not getting a strong solvey feel.

That said I think this reasoning is true:

VOTE: Snowblaze

Is this because of Holden’s post, or because I haven’t posted in a while?

@Holden, if you must try and get me killed, you could at least spell my name right. Anyway: my original vote on Fredrick was more a gut ping than anything else. It’s kind of hard to put it into words, especially a few days later, but I thought he was just opportunistically hopping on wagons.

I unvoted because I thought his remark on scum not having daytalk was a townslip after finding out that scum did have daytalk. Probably should have made that slightly clearer.

As for my post with the RCE vote, that’s probably because I didn’t really have any scumreads (still don’t, I guess). And it wasn’t “why everyone else can’t be scum” it was more “why I don’t want to vote for other people”.

Snow, why can't scum fake that townslip. I see that all the time or scum asking the mod if there's daytalk for example

[Raya36]

Yeah. I’m trying. I was just going to point out that RCE’s vote on me is ringing all kinds of alarm bells.

“I vaguely remember not liking this wagon, and I think other people have done scummy stuff, but I’m fine with eliminating this anyway, we can worry about other stuff tomorrow”.

That just screams “scum trying to push a miselimination through while simultaneously distancing from it” to me.

Other than that, in general I feel like scum are on the latter half of my wagon rather than the early part. I’ll see if I can find what I particularly don’t like.

This is actually suspicious. "Who on your wagon is scum?" then she says the counterwagon lol

[Raya36]

Almo what do you think of my reasoning here and why does town!RCE make that post?

Because he didn't receive a red PM and didn't even read the rules thoroughly?? I mean, the rules explicitly state:

The Mafia win when all living members escape.

There is no mention of "majority" here, so RCE didn't read that (and I'm sure the win con in the role PM is identical because it would be a mod discrepancy if they gave us something in public and something else to scum in private).

Now let's discuss the possibilities: 2 Scum Eliminations on D1/D2 = Scum instant loss
1 Scum Elimination on D1/D2 and they canNOT have a "majority" escaping because NO ONE will escape by the end of D2.
No Scum Elimination on D1/D2 = still can't win by the "start" of D3 because only one scum would escape by the end of D2 and they need to make it through D3 for a second one to escape (and that's EVEN if we assume -somehow- "majority" which I already said was a misconception)

So, RCE was wrong. Plain and simple.

Now let me ask you this: What is the SCUM motive behind this post, given scum daychat is also announced in the rules. If RCE had doubts or was unclear about the rule (which -again- is not possible from my PoV given it's an explicit win con statement) why wouldn't he have asked in the scum PT?

This is a really good post.

UNVOTE: RCE
There isn't any scum motivation for that post unless they were doing it for us to think they're town for that reason. But if so it clearly backfired on them.

no Almo you don't follow me

RCEngima tried to give the impression he didn't want scum to realise they could kill each other if they hadn't already, and asked a question privately to the mod
but if that's the case, he shouldn't be making that post in the first place since it could possibly alert scum that they can kill each other

the scuminess of that post has nothing to do with the act of misunderstanding the rules - it has everything to do with the intent of the post and the disconnect betweent the thought process behind it and the actual act of making and posting it
you ask for scum motivation? there doesn't need to be a

specific

motivation for that post - the scum motivation for any post like that is to give out content and get yourself not scumread
you and RCE aren't invited to perform for the play - you can still have tickets to view it though

VOTE: RCEnigma

~Eve

VOTE: Eeveee
Seems they're just trying to find a reason to push RCE now (says we need to look at the intent but the only intent that makes sense is town intent), and then they say A50 looks bad too for disagreeing.

[Something_Smart]

This is actually suspicious. "Who on your wagon is scum?" then she says the counterwagon lol

But she has actual reasoning for it, so it's not a cop-out. And like I pointed out before, she's right that RCE's vote did look bad.

[Raya36]

This is actually suspicious. "Who on your wagon is scum?" then she says the counterwagon lol

But she has actual reasoning for it, so it's not a cop-out. And like I pointed out before, she's right that RCE's vote did look bad.

Yeah I saw that giant wallpost about RCE from her after. You're right that it's not a cop-out.
I don't want a snow lynch. I'd be ok with RCE since my only reason for townreading is that whole scum killing scum thing that I don't think scum would talk about in thread.
I'd like Eevee but I don't think that would be popular.
I'm not against Mohab.

VOTE: Mohab
I don't think Eevee is gonna happen and if Mohab does flip scum that would be very telling in that regard

[Raya36]

That's E-3 for Mohab and 15 hours until deadline

[Menalque]

Why don’t you want a snow lynch Raya? Or more to the point, why do you think snow isn’t scum?

[Menalque]

That's E-3 for Mohab and 15 hours until deadline

This is vaguely disingenuous given that Snow is also at G-3

[Raya36]

Why don’t you want a snow lynch Raya? Or more to the point, why do you think snow isn’t scum?

I believe Snowblaze's post that I quoted and she stepped it up with that read list and the new burst of effort. I also believe that she will participate much more now based on the reads and the effort shown there and the lack of participation and solving was my main problem originally.

[Raya36]

That's E-3 for Mohab and 15 hours until deadline

This is vaguely disingenuous given that Snow is also at G-3

Snow is viable as well but I don't want her lynched because I think she is town

[Menalque]

That's E-3 for Mohab and 15 hours until deadline

This is vaguely disingenuous given that Snow is also at G-3

Snow is viable as well but I don't want her lynched because I think she is town

Yes but by presenting only mohab it makes her seem like she’s the only person viable to anyone coming into the thread late, when that’s not the situation. Despite your reads you should present the information honestly so that we can see what people chose to do between the two of them on later days with all the information in front of them

I really wish we weren’t deadline guillotining

[Menalque]

RCEnigma

I still don't get the initial Porkens vote, but I'm not sure it's strongly AI either way.

The mechanics stuff... I don't really like making reads based on mechanical speculation, but again it seems weird from either alignment. I'm trying to think through this: scum!RCE would have presumably asked the question in the PT before making 168, otherwise he would have kept it secret in case the answer was yes. At the same time, town!RCE would have wanted to keep it a secret if he didn't already know the answer, since that post is encouraging scum to consider possibilities they might otherwise not have thought of... yeah, I don't think this is getting me any closer to a read, I'll just move on.

238 is okay, but the kind of solving that would be easy enough for scum to fake.

239 and 257 - this is the sort of thing I'd be kind of expecting from scum in the gamestate at the time.

264 - I do get the logic here, but I'm not really sure the information denied to scum outweighs the information denied to town, plus I find it very hard to play without talking about townreads.

536 - that's actually a valid explanation; personally if I'd had a thought like that and the answer was yes I'd keep my mouth shut about it and hope scum don't have weird enough logic to figure it out, but I guess it makes sense.

599 - actually not as bad as I originally thought given the context of the post above.

612 - I appreciate this, and I do feel it's slightly town-AI.

...yup, my reads are a confused mess again. What fun. At least if I'm eliminated I don't have to worry about getting them straight!

I'm getting slight pings in both directions, and I can't really work out whether the town-AI things outweigh the scum-AI things. That being said, I'm keeping my vote firmly where it is in the most-likely-vain-hope of self-preservation.

(By the way, we have plurality elimination at deadline, so you don't need to hammer me (or anyone else) just to get an elimination.)

Oh, I missed this earlier, this is actually very useful to know

[Menalque]

Fuck, I meant to just quote the last para about plurality

[Umlaut]

Haven't caught up yet, but it looks like my vanity wagon has come a long way!

[Menalque]

I actually don’t love plurality setups because they allow a greater degree of passivity than I’d like and allow people to avoid compromise which I think is quite often useful in determining alignments when looked back at (who compromised and where) but the big plus is not needing to find 3 votes in 12 hours when the people I’d need to make those votes are all p inactive

[Menalque]

Why don’t you want a snow lynch Raya? Or more to the point, why do you think snow isn’t scum?

I believe Snowblaze's post that I quoted and she stepped it up with that read list and the new burst of effort. I also believe that she will participate much more now based on the reads and the effort shown there and the lack of participation and solving was my main problem originally.

Which post, you quoted two?

And why does snow making an effort at threat of being lynched make her townie vs her lack of solving earlier?

Also why is effort townie? Snow made walls and tried in her scumgames on site and meta is basically the only reason to TR someone or SR someone for effort

[Snowblaze]

I’m... not dead?

Still tired, but I’ll make myself do those last two ISOs in a couple of hours. In the meantime, VOTE: Mohab500 for self-preservation.

[Menalque]

S_S, chemist, RCE

I’d like it if some combination of you could vote snowblaze at this point to ensure she’s guillotined today

[Snowblaze]

S_S, chemist, RCE

I’d like it if some combination of you could vote snowblaze at this point to ensure she’s guillotined today

I’d like it if you couldn’t

(If you think I’m most likely to flip scum, fair enough, I probably won’t be able to change your minds.)

[Umlaut]

Menalque, independently of Snowblaze, what is your actual read on Mohab?