I won't have time to respond to everything - I'll make the effort here although I'm not sure it will achieve much as you've gone full tunnel on me.
In post 1074, ClarkBar wrote: In post 1070, Battle Mage wrote:Why you: Well there were 3 options really. Probably you and TTJT would have been my top scumreads ahead of 72o
You pretty much town-read me all D1 and then all of a sudden I'm in your top two scum candidates?
I basically town read everyone Day 1 apart from my 2 scumreads.
In post 1074, ClarkBar wrote:
In post 1070, Battle Mage wrote:TTJT is very capable of fakeclaiming as town which would have caused all manner of issues.
I'm offended at the suggestion that scum!me would not be capable of a similar fakeclaim.
I haven't seen it from you - doesn't mean you're not capable, but I do know for a fact that TTJT is.
In post 1074, ClarkBar wrote:
In post 1070, Battle Mage wrote:I figured if you were town you'd claim vanilla, and if you didn't claim vanilla you would probably be scum
So, the thought of me possibly being a PR never crossed your mind? The potential risk of outing a PR (or two) in this gambit wasn't at all a concern?
I explained earlier that I was consciously trying to avoid a situation where the PRs needed to claim, so no it didn't occur to me as being a risk at all. Of course, I was aware I could have been wrong, but I'd basically made my mind up, and even if I was wrong, the chances of you being a PR were still not that high. And yes, the thought of you being a PR never crossed my mind. I don't even know now what hints/crumbs you're referring to. It's fairly obvious that I didn't think you were a PR. And if I was scum who thought you were a PR, why would I be pushing you to claim? I'd have just killed you at night. You're essentially suggesting I was open-wolfing to the extreme - I can buy that you think I could potentially do that, but it's not very likely as it would be a high risk, needlessly conspicuous gambit which would obviously bite me on the ass when my credibility was already low because of flips. There is no scum motivation here.
In post 1074, ClarkBar wrote:
In post 1070, Battle Mage wrote:(and obviously I'd get an indication from Jam/Raya reaction to confirm that was the case). It wouldn't rely on them outting themselves, as I could push and draw the attention on myself, and they could give subtle hints, and we'd have a good townblock but I could also draw the NK and get us into a strong position with 2 conf-towns in late game.
This bit is so convoluted and reachy it verges on the embarrassing. I love you BM, but this is some real nonsense.
It's not nonsense at all. It's completely logical - the only issue here is that it relied on my assumption about the masons being right, which it wasn't.
In post 1074, ClarkBar wrote:
In post 1070, Battle Mage wrote:No idea what you think the motivation is for scum-BM to make that play (where the sole purpose is to townblock someone if they don't fakeclaim), although I can sympathise with you thinking it's dumb play from your perspective, and with the benefit of hindsight.
I've already explained what your scum-motives were. You're smart and experienced, and something about the way I engaged at the top of D2 pinged you that I might be a PR. That's a problem for scum: maybe I'm a cop and investigated you or your partner? And so your read of me all of a sudden changed and you built a wagon on me based on lame reasoning. You introduced the idea of a theory and breadcrumbed a PR of your own for the purpose of discrediting me in case I did in fact claim a PR.
What you didn't take into account is that I recognized this attempt early and called it out before you had the opportunity to counter-claim. And now you're reaching
hard
to spin it into some bizarre and confusing POE gambit.
I feel like Velma at the end of a Scooby-Doo episode explaining the plot and having all the pieces fit together nicely.
As above, if I was scum and thought you were a PR, why would I want you to claim? ESPECIALLY if I thought you were a cop, because in claiming, you'd be guaranteed to be protected at night by a doctor if there is one.
And as you say, by forcing you to claim it would mean you would reveal your result. Clearly scum-BM would prefer a Cop to NOT claim, so he can kill them before they reveal results.
Additionally, if I was scum and thought you were a cop, and investigated me or my partner (and you havent really explained to me why you think I would have thought either of those things) I would sooner be claiming first with a guilty on you, rather than pushing you to claim a guilty on me and ccing you. Taking the initiative is valuable.
Although in reality, I'd do neither, because
I've been quite open about the weakness of the reasoning, so using this as an argument is hardly a revelation. I obviously wouldn't have lynched you with that reasoning, I just wanted to see if you'd fakeclaim, although that's all completely redundant now.
I don't even understand what "theory" I could have been inventing? And doesn't the fact I haven't done something like that to cc you, largely invalidate your whole rationale anyway? Unless you're so consumed by ego that you think you supposedly "calling me out" (again, must have missed that...) would have deterred me from continuing with such a play if that was my intention?
What you refer to as a "bizarre and confusing" POE gambit, is a staple of my game nowadays, and it can be very effective. I can't refer to ongoing games, but there is nothing to stop you reading.
I think the fundamental problem is you're annoyed that I've outted you as cop, and you aren't thinking objectively and rationally about what that means for my alignment.
Please do me the courtesy of actually giving this some thought and reading and responding to my points above.
