Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[Farren]

I think Morning is town.
I think Clidd is town.
I think ydrasse is probably town.
I think GL is probably town, but actually maybe a little weaker than the other three.

Gamma, pine, dunn all null.

This seems opportunistic if farren is town.

Usually when I see "opportunistic" it's referring to someone jumping on a common scum wagon. That doesn't seem to apply here - could you explain further?

[Farren]

That’s possible. Err my townreads aren’t very based on people SRing you at all? I guess GL is the one that’s most influenced by that.

Good answer. If you'd indicated a lot of reliance on that, I'd be worried. If nothing else, that Rising Star badge tells me you're more likely to fall towards the skilled end of things - and if you were basing your reads on a single point that I know to be NAI, that wouldn't mesh well.

Definitely means I want to figure you out sooner rather than later, though. That's okay, though; I like a challenge.

[Farren]

You put all the low posters in your null pile, which is actually just your scum pile but you're not calling it that

I'll take this as an answer to my earlier question.

Why does null pile equal scum pile in this case? He's made it clear the only person in his scum pile right now is me.

[Farren]

Farren, do you have any reads yet?

Leaning Town on clidd and you. Gun to my head, I'd say Dunnstral and GuiltyLion for scum - but my D1 read quality tends to be utter garbage. At least in my last game, the scum were all hiding in the middle of my thoughts by the time D1 came to a close. People who were being active, but not *really* active - people who were participating, but not shining. Probably means I should be looking more at ... Gamma Emerald, Ydrasse, Morning Tweet. And I'm forgetting someone ... Pine. I'd put Pine in the bottom bucket. And I know why I'm doing that, and I hate it.

So: let Dunnstral and GuiltyLion percolate for the time being, poke them from time to time, work on the middle three. Wait for Pine to become more present.

VOTE: Morning Tweet

Going off of memory, Morning Tweet, you've made less of an impression on me than Gamma and Ydrasse, despite you scumreading me. Is that a me thing or a you thing, do you think?

[Farren]

By the way, part of me thinks that maybe Town!Lion would open the game with a vote on Menalque/me/Ydrasse to sort us early, but this is a scant assumption. Not if our past game would have any effect on him. I don't know.

Given the first roll of the game - with a me / GuiltyLion scumteam - how do you think that would affect this?

[GuiltyLion]

As far as defending Ydrasse goes: describing her as "Friendly" was not a defense. It was more a probe on Menalque to see if he was advocating for "Friendly = Scummy," - which he was not. The only other post - 62 - yes, that's a small plus to Ydrasse, as it's something I'd noticed as well. Why would you think that constitutes white knighting?

I guess the reason I called it WKing is that I don't see where it leads to nor stems from reads on Menalque or Ydrasse. I can see how those questions were meant to probe Menalque, but then you backed off of it in 52. so I felt absent of any real sense of your read on either of them, it felt to me more like "participating to participate" type posting rather than an earnest push on Menalque or defense of Ydrasse.

[Farren]

I am present; this is my last day of workplace insanity for the summer. It's all downhill starting tomorrow.

I am glad to hear this.

I seem to recall the game we played together, you were also very busy and ultimately didn't stick around. And you were Town, I think.

(cheats and checks) Yup. So I'm hoping you'll be able to dazzle us with your presence later.

[GuiltyLion]

well like, I'm currently worried about clidd. that's mostly because I feel like he's trying to pre-emptively justify being not on-meta. which like, good very well be because he's burned out from the last couple of games and he's totally being truthful and just wants to have a chill game. in which case, great! I want him to have that too!

the last game I played with town!clidd (which I think was that Newbie you were in briefly) he posted this huge meta-analysis of my slot and I asked him whether he replicates that type of post as scum bc that's an insane amount of effort and he said he didn't think he could do it

so I see where you're coming from here, but I'm not sure he'd try to bring it up pre-emptively though. that feels a little brave as scum

[GuiltyLion]

do you have any thoughts on who might be scum so far btw?

PoE is telling Pine and Dunn. But it might change if they post something good.

eh I don't like this post

how is it PoE based off of like two RL days, especially when it gives you the two lurkiest slots

[GuiltyLion]

I think ydrasse is probably town.

Menalque what's your reasoning here? she feels way more casual/chill/friendly than I remember in either her scumgame or her towngame, I don't know how to read it

[GuiltyLion]

Personally, my town-lock on him is basically due to the depth of thought that he had about my meta, which sounded to me as extremely genuine.

how do you think scum!Menalque would approach your slot, his thoughts about your meta have nothing to do with his alignment. this is a bs reason for a townread and I especially don't like that it comes right after he softened up on you

VOTE: clidd

[Farren]

I guess the reason I called it WKing is that I don't see where it leads to nor stems from reads on Menalque or Ydrasse. I can see how those questions were meant to probe Menalque, but then you backed off of it in 52. so I felt absent of any real sense of your read on either of them, it felt to me more like "participating to participate" type posting rather than an earnest push on Menalque or defense of Ydrasse.

What I think of when I think of "earnest push" - either an active case of "This person is scum and here's why," or active questioning with repeated follow-ups. Basically, what I meant earlier when I was talking about becoming an Inquisitor. Barring a clear mechanical reason to do so, if I'm doing the former on D1, that's when you should be very concerned about me - either I'm scum, or I've gone completely off the rails. Or both.

The latter would make more sense, but my particular line of inquiry was satisfied. Trying to probe a tone read on D1 is pretty pointless, especially when I don't have much familiarity with the player list. Even with tone reads on me - I at least know what I'm thinking, so I've got *something* to work with there.

I've described myself as "cold and calculating." That applies to both my townplay and my scumplay. Do you think I'm representing myself accurately when I say that? If no, is it because I'm scum and deliberately trying to cloud the image of who I am, or because I'm Town and just not very self-aware? Or for some other reason?

[GuiltyLion]

I don't have enough of a sense on you to accurately assess whether you are "calculating" or not at this stage, but I don't see why you'd lie about it as either alignment

I think you do feel kinda stiff/formal to me so that may explain the bad early game vibes

[Farren]

Personally, my town-lock on him is basically due to the depth of thought that he had about my meta, which sounded to me as extremely genuine.

how do you think scum!Menalque would approach your slot, his thoughts about your meta have nothing to do with his alignment. this is a bs reason for a townread and I especially don't like that it comes right after he softened up on you

VOTE: clidd

Clidd, were you referring to me or Menalque? I had thought you were referring to me.

GuiltyLion: does it matter how Clidd answers this question?

[clidd]

By the way, part of me thinks that maybe Town!Lion would open the game with a vote on Menalque/me/Ydrasse to sort us early, but this is a scant assumption. Not if our past game would have any effect on him. I don't know.

Given the first roll of the game - with a me / GuiltyLion scumteam - how do you think that would affect this?

If you are referring to a past game, where you two were scum, depending on the date he would be more inclined to vote for you first if the impression of that game was bigger than the past with me/Ydrasse/Menalque.

As I don't read minds, I don't find it so suggestive.

[GuiltyLion]

After thinking for a while (on relax mode on), I just came to my first serious read: Menalque obvtown.

Personally, my town-lock on him is basically due to the depth of thought that he had about my meta, which sounded to me as extremely genuine.

And the way he came to question me and at the same time think of solutions for that to happen in a way that he could draw an AI conclusion, without indirect shading or doing evasive maneuvers to make me look worse, was an indication that he was starting from a uninformed perspective (town) that doesn't know my alignment.

these things all point to it being about Menalque, no? Why would these comments refer to you, you didn't really speak much or at all about clidd's meta whereas Menalque was invoking it quite explicitly?

it definitely matters if it was about you and not Menalque

[clidd]

do you have any thoughts on who might be scum so far btw?

PoE is telling Pine and Dunn. But it might change if they post something good.

eh I don't like this post

how is it PoE based off of like two RL days, especially when it gives you the two lurkiest slots

PoE is indifferent to time.

[clidd]

Personally, my town-lock on him is basically due to the depth of thought that he had about my meta, which sounded to me as extremely genuine.

how do you think scum!Menalque would approach your slot, his thoughts about your meta have nothing to do with his alignment. this is a bs reason for a townread and I especially don't like that it comes right after he softened up on you

VOTE: clidd

Ok, but it doesn't change my read.

[clidd]

Can you do good questions, Lion ?

[clidd]

I don't think you're scum, but the way you seem to be reacting to me right now seems off in my opinion.

[clidd]

I am trying to assess whether you are confused in the current scenario/viewing behavioral discrepancy as a scum indicator.

My read on Menalque is valid to me, I don't think he would go that deeper to understand my meta.

[GuiltyLion]

I don't follow, what do you mean by good questions? Like you don't think my questions were good?

I don't agree with you that Menalque is obvtown here and I think the reason you gave for it doesn't feel all that rigorous, which I would expect more from you. As either alignment Menalque can speak genuinely about your meta. It looks to me like you were happy with the conclusion he reached in 175 and townread him back as a result, I can't grok why you'd be confident he's town off that.

I also don't vibe with scumreads on the two lowest activity slots on the basis of PoE here, it's very likely that one of the more active posters is scum trying to establish a good foothold in the game

[clidd]

And Scum!Menalque does not approach me directly, like he did here by approaching the subject clearly. He would slowly look at my behavior and use the lack of characteristic features of my towngame to develop suspicions in me without compromising much.

[GuiltyLion]

My read on Menalque is valid to me, I don't think he would go that deeper to understand my meta.

maybe can you explain which posts/points were deeper than scum!Menalque could or would post?

I think if you're saying "why would he go through the effort" I can better understand that read, but it read to me like you initially said it was the genuine-ness that made it town.

[Farren]

I don't have enough of a sense on you to accurately assess whether you are "calculating" or not at this stage, but I don't see why you'd lie about it as either alignment

I think you do feel kinda stiff/formal to me so that may explain the bad early game vibes

I've given a possible reason why scum|Farren might deliberately misrepresent himself - image maintenance.

And thinking on that, I'm now realizing how you came to the conclusion that clidd was talking about Menalque. Menalque's meta-argument on clidd: that scum|clidd knows he posts differently and thus is trying to explain that away to divert a meta-attack. (Is this correct?)

So scum|Farren could be doing something in the same general vein here - aware that he posts differently as scum vs. Town, and thus trying to portray his meta in general as closer to his scum-meta to throw off suspicion.

Do you think "participating to participate" fit in with "cold and calculating?"