Micro 960: A Year of Miccros II - Game Over

[skitter30]

mine

[Datisi]

skitt, at the begining of the game, you commented on koba/tw never being s/s... does that still hold?

pedit: i'm a mix of "i want to end this" adn "oh god i'm not ready" idk

[skitter30]

i mean scum don't always play optimally

yes I know scum do not always play optimally - but the EV difference between bussing and pushing someone else when your scumpartner gets called out by the moderator for fake-claiming is just so so so big that I think almost any scum player who is not a complete noob would definitely pick the bus route.

idk. if u read thru that section she inexplicably wanted to not vote you, which was a p strange reaction from a townie

[Datisi]

dats what are u thinking rn?

i'm thinking about going for a walk and trying to forget about this game for a little while longer, why?

ok i slightly lied here, i'm also looking for quotes and shit i'm gonna dump in my notes PT if the game goes to night 3

wanted to check micc's ruleset first if i'm allowed to mention that

[skitter30]

skitt, at the begining of the game, you commented on koba/tw never being s/s... does that still hold?

pedit: i'm a mix of "i want to end this" adn "oh god i'm not ready" idk

um not as strongly cuz it was ages and ages ago but i trust past!me saying that if that makes sense?

rn i'm kinda taking tw out of the lynchpool cuz ur telling me he mechanically has to be town, which negates ss/tw in any universe

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like here's the setup as I understand it.

The moderator randomly selects 9 games, he then creates a game with roles from those 9 games.

A lover without a lover is functionally equivalent to a vanilla townie
A neighbor without a neighbor is functionally equivalent to a vanilla townie
A neighbor bodyguard without a neighbor is functionally equivalent to a regular bodyguard.

Since none of the roles are from the same game - they would not form "hoods" or "love-pairs" The existence of a neighbor or a lover does not imply or not imply the existence of another lover/neighbor.

Claiming "neighborless bodyguard neighbor" is just a fake claim like any other - it has no real reason to be more or less likely to exist on purely mechanical reason. Please tell me what I'm not seeing here?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like why can't neighbor bodyguard be a fake-claim? I'm just not seeing what mechanically makes it so that TW must be town because from my role PM I know he is scum here and I just wish I could understand the mistake you are making in your logic so I can correct it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

dats what are u thinking rn?

i'm thinking about going for a walk and trying to forget about this game for a little while longer, why?

enjoy your walk dats

stay safe

[Datisi]

it was about their spat at like the first 5 pages i think

and like... i think he's town on mechanics. i think the bg claim is town and makes more sense with mfd than a bomb and the neighbourless neighbour is like ~symmetry~ and i guess kinda ~poetic~ with a loverless lover and i know that can be a fakeclaim but it just strikes me as something scum simply isn't likely to fakeclaim???

which like doesn't make him 100% irrefutably undeniably town but like... mech isn't the only way we're reading him anyway, no?

pedit: this is re skitter

[skitter30]

like why can't neighbor bodyguard be a fake-claim? I'm just not seeing what mechanically makes it so that TW must be town because from my role PM I know he is scum here and I just wish I could understand the mistake you are making in your logic so I can correct it

well the bg bit apparently, the neighbor bit is just icing on the cake given that dats is claiming loveless lover

apparently we need the bg to be balanced against mfd

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i mean scum don't always play optimally

yes I know scum do not always play optimally - but the EV difference between bussing and pushing someone else when your scumpartner gets called out by the moderator for fake-claiming is just so so so big that I think almost any scum player who is not a complete noob would definitely pick the bus route.

idk. if u read thru that section she inexplicably wanted to not vote you, which was a p strange reaction from a townie

yes it's weird from a townie but it's beyond suicidal dumb if we were S/S together.

Like I wanted to lynch myself that day and I KNEW what my role pm was.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like why can't neighbor bodyguard be a fake-claim? I'm just not seeing what mechanically makes it so that TW must be town because from my role PM I know he is scum here and I just wish I could understand the mistake you are making in your logic so I can correct it

well the bg bit apparently, the neighbor bit is just icing on the cake given that dats is claiming loveless lover

apparently we need the bg to be balanced against mfd

did you think yesterday that we had 3 TPRs or 2 TPRs?

[skitter30]

it was about their spat at like the first 5 pages i think

and like... i think he's town on mechanics. i

yes, i knew where it was from
i had reread it a few days ago and like i didn't think it as strongly as i did at the time but i trust past!me making that assessment, is what i ment

and wrt mechanics i meant the bg bit

i think he/pooky is kinda impossible
i hadn't done any work to specifically rule out ss/tw this day phase but like i'm relying on tw!bg = town and koba being town i guess

ss's confidence this phase is also +town but i can see it coming from scum too

[skitter30]

did you think yesterday that we had 3 TPRs or 2 TPRs?

i didn't really think about it, i'm not good at mechanics and usually let other people work that bit out

[skitter30]

*not good at mechanics as town

[Datisi]

Since none of the roles are from the same game - they would not form "hoods" or "love-pairs" The existence of a neighbor or a lover does not imply or not imply the existence of another lover/neighbor.

Claiming "neighborless bodyguard neighbor" is just a fake claim like any other - it has no real reason to be more or less likely to exist on purely mechanical reason. Please tell me what I'm not seeing here?

because they are Roles That Come In Pairs. like idk how else to explain it. my existence doesn't 100% imply his and vice versa but but it's... idk nice in a way? like i don't know how else to explain it but it just seems like too much of a coincidence for scum to fakeclaim pairless pair role and here to actually be a single pairless pair role in town???

and also bodyguard + MFD mechanic makes sense. especially if scum also claims sometihng like (idk bomb) and throws doubt on the bg. arguably it works the other way too. but a protective + strongman with a drawback. ~setup synergy~. idk i'm tired.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

and like... i think he's town on mechanics. i think the bg claim is town and makes more sense with mfd than a bomb and the neighbourless neighbour is like ~symmetry~ and i guess kinda ~poetic~ with a loverless lover and i know that can be a fakeclaim but it just strikes me as something scum simply isn't likely to fakeclaim???

Why isn't scum likely to fake-claim neighborless neighbor? there is no risk to it, it's an added detail that makes the lie seem more real.

Also the scum knew about the MFD so they knew a BG claim would not really put them in the spot where town could go "hey you didn't protect XXX you must be a bad person!" like they knew they had an out if they failed to protect skitter...

[Datisi]

because neighbourless neighbour is so out of this world???

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because they are Roles That Come In Pairs. like idk how else to explain it. my existence doesn't 100% imply his and vice versa but but it's... idk nice in a way? like i don't know how else to explain it but it just seems like too much of a coincidence for scum to fakeclaim pairless pair role and here to actually be a single pairless pair role in town???

why would the mod put in 2 roles that come in pairs and allow the town to conf 2 more town when he already put in a conf town FN?

That would be 3 conf town roles in a 9p vs 2 scum?

[skitter30]

i'm gonna quote a mastina adage: scum like to try to make the possible ~probable~

like techincally scum!tw could have been informed of loverless!dats and known about the mfd and come up with that exact fake-claim
is it probable tho? not really

[Datisi]

like when i was reading my own role PM i was like "wait... what???" and idk

they could've asked micc like "hey micc theoretically is it possible you put in a neighbourless neighbour in the game" and then fakeclaimed that but (1) it just seems like a lovely detail on the read that is town!tw and scum!pooky and (2) what if there were actual neighbours in the game??? tw fakeclaims neighbours then??? how does he talk himself out of being a neighbour in no hood?? like

[Datisi]

because they are Roles That Come In Pairs. like idk how else to explain it. my existence doesn't 100% imply his and vice versa but but it's... idk nice in a way? like i don't know how else to explain it but it just seems like too much of a coincidence for scum to fakeclaim pairless pair role and here to actually be a single pairless pair role in town???

why would the mod put in 2 roles that come in pairs and allow the town to conf 2 more town when he already put in a conf town FN?

That would be 3 conf town roles in a 9p vs 2 scum?

well since we're not treating me and tw as masons and you're pushing for his execution, i'd argue it didn't confirm anything

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

did you think yesterday that we had 3 TPRs or 2 TPRs?

i didn't really think about it, i'm not good at mechanics and usually let other people work that bit out

ok but if people really thought that only 1 of me/TW was going to be a TPR and the game makes more sense with 2 TPRs than 3, the correct play on D2 is to lynch one of us to determine the other.

Like a red pooky flip heavily implies green TW and vice-versa.

a green Pooky flip doesn't mean TW must be scum but it puts tremendous pressure on him to protect successfully or face getting wagoned

that's what I was trying to go for with the self-lynch on D2 but I didn't put it exactly in those terms because I choked hard that day,

[Datisi]

wow if only there weren't people hard pushing for dsjstr!!!

[Datisi]

walcc time. i'll be back at some point in this century.