Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

maybe I over-estimate Hectic's brilliance

[Tanner]

If scum shoot B, we still got A and you can still find the next town-slip or def-town player.

So if a brilliant player like Hectic is town, he would be a tremendous asset if we are going the Spare Route. However if he was scum - it's really hard for him to actually do damage because a Good-Town Hectic would not actually want to get spared himself.

(1) but at some point, we're very likely to run out of obv-town people. (2) even gods of mafia need information feedback, which is something that half-flipless screws with immensly. (3) again, *why* would god-of-mafia hectic not want to get himself spared? you can be a paragon at reading other people, but the only alignment you actually know is your own, and pushing for your own spare (especially after you've done all the heavy lifting of townreading correct players) is both logical and likely to happen

and again. you are talking pure hypotheticals. because this game is definitely not cleanly divided into 4-5 noobs who will just so happen to be bleeding obvtown (because guess what, not every noob is gonna be good at making themselves obvtown) and the rest of us being mafia gods who will correctly read them all. like that's not this playerbase. that's not the game we're playing.

[Tanner]

I will always go super try-hard on figuring out a way to game the system to get us the win.

the closest thing we got to gaming the system is using the biggest-EV smallest-town-frustration route. which is genocide. (or maybe 3 fights 1 spare if we majorly fuck up.) so like. ya know. work towards that?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea I'm sure at some point the creek will run dry but the odds r pretty good if we have slam-dunk winners on the first 2 spares.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like it almost doubles to a whopping 42%!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't really understand how a message of cheer, joy and peace could be not attractive? think of the example we are setting for the children if we begin murdering each other in cold blood on TV

[Morning Tweet]

Spoiler: Tanner in Isolation

Starts off the game with questioning why people are townreading him and being concerned with getting pocketed. Claims later to me that faking paranoia is one of his weaknesses as scum -- I feel like theres a good chance he isnt lying, and if that is so, that's town points

Also probably worth mentioning he advocated for genocide immediately. Scum might go neutral at first on setup spec in hopes town takes the pacifism route, that's actually what I'd expect probably. That or advocating for pacifism. Tanner does neither

Tanner states that he likes my reads and his being mostly similar. I said "Well mine came second", at the time, wondering if he is scum buddying me. I lightly like his response of "Let me enjoy my townbloc". Additionally, I feel that if Tanner were trying to buddy me, he probably wouldnt be so interested in having me try to explain out my read so much. maybe WIFOM sure but i lean against it

I think he does this to other ppl townreading him as well. He comes off as slightly paranoid which again he mentions is something he struggles with as scum, and I am being somewhat of a sucker for self meta here but still.

347 is a nice post. I know that scumteam probably isnt an outrageous theory but they are 3 close to the very bottom of my reads. Thoughts on Hectic feel genuine

419 - i have the same opinion on catbois point about Taylors antagonishness being townish (in that we sort of disagree)

I mentioned Tanners sort of indecisive tone at times being interesting to me in the last post, but i am fully willing to say that it's probably not something scum indictative. I could read games to check but i suspect what i was noticing is just how tanner conveys his thoughts

It also helps that paired with certain scumflips I think are quite possible (probably Lavender, Taylor, pooky the most), tanner becomes even more towny

[Chara]

i'm going to be entirely unable to read Tanner without bias for at least a few real life days due to how much i love his posting to Pooky right now.

however. i also no longer want to murder Pooky. the bloodlust has settled. i am nowhere near confident, but his fixation on Hectic and 473 ring strangely honest.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

no longer want to murder Pooky

[Morning Tweet]

Effort for me is NAI, bordering on slightly scummy. I have made a giant reads note post at least one time as scum in both my scum games this year, whereas I do it maybe 1/2 - 2/3rds the time as town. sometimes as town i just say fuck it and follow my heart without doing heavy backtrack reading

I have heard of the fabled scum notedump from you, but I noticed in the example I could find those notes were heavy on the play-by-play but here your notes trend mostly toward analysis.

Yeah that sounds about right actually lol

Flavour Leaf noted it was somewhat information over analysis and nearly caught me for it

Being scum can make me more indecisive about what stances I need to take. It's more about demonstrating the effort was made than the actual content!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you know what we could do if you guys are all super convinced Tanner = good?

we could like totally spare him and give peace a chance.

[Morning Tweet]

It's harder for me to tell whether pooky is being genuine or not when I seriously disagree w him. I think, even though our individual chances each day of getting a townread correct is high, doing it 4 times in a row will not be a walk in the park with nightkills

So yeah basically what Tanner has been saying

i just.. Pooky, your strategy is positively benefitted from hiding many of your reads, yes? And that's what youre planning on doing until a wagon is nearly fought, right?

But seeing as 95% of the game isnt partaking in your strategy, what is the point of hiding your own thoughts anymore? You're just one part of the town so really you may as well share since the NK will likely remain unchanged anyway at this point

and i apologize if I have it wrong and you have been sharing reads n stuff I have just been glossing over a lot of your posts due to not really digging the pacifism argument

[Chara]

okay, it's absurdly late and i really want to catch up so i don't get even a little bit behind, because then things will get even harder for me.

but i'm going to sleep. so don't let me get lazy, thank you. tomorrow i'll be here again and very present to the best of my ability, but please threaten me if i fail that. goodnight! <3

pedit: over my dead body. and by mine, i mean the scum Chara's. because we're either killing scum today, or we're killing town and the scum imposter is going to experience the same ending i did.

[Morning Tweet]

you know what we could do if you guys are all super convinced Tanner = good?

we could like totally spare him and give peace a chance.

Is there a point to doing that though? (if we arent going 4 spares)

Like does having Tanner in heaven somehow help us down the line, assuming we go neutral route after that

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's harder for me to tell whether pooky is being genuine or not when I seriously disagree w him. I think, even though our individual chances each day of getting a townread correct is high, doing it 4 times in a row will not be a walk in the park with nightkills

So yeah basically what Tanner has been saying

i just.. Pooky, your strategy is positively benefitted from hiding many of your reads, yes? And that's what youre planning on doing until a wagon is nearly fought, right?

But seeing as 95% of the game isnt partaking in your strategy, what is the point of hiding your own thoughts anymore? You're just one part of the town so really you may as well share since the NK will likely remain unchanged anyway at this point

and i apologize if I have it wrong and you have been sharing reads n stuff I have just been glossing over a lot of your posts due to not really digging the pacifism argument

I'm not really hiding my reads - I just find it unlikely there are useful reads in the first place when there is no stakes in the interactions

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

doing it 4 times in a row will not be a walk in the park with nightkills

I don't think I ever presented it as "easy"

but I do believe it will be a worthy goal and an amazing win if we can pull it off

[Tayl0r Swift]

to be fair pooky's insistence on sparing probably makes pooky town. sticking out like a sore thumb in the rear end is not what scum wants to do.

[Tayl0r Swift]

doing it 4 times in a row will not be a walk in the park with nightkills

I don't think I ever presented it as "easy"

but I do believe it will be a worthy goal and an amazing win if we can pull it off

why go for an amazing win when you can go for a safer win

[Tayl0r Swift]

doing it 4 times in a row will not be a walk in the park with nightkills

I don't think I ever presented it as "easy"

but I do believe it will be a worthy goal and an amazing win if we can pull it off

why go for an amazing win when you can go for a safer win

[Tanner]

i'm going to be entirely unable to read Tanner without bias for at least a few real life days due to how much i love his posting to Pooky right now.

hey, as long as the read is correct, doesn't matter if it's biased!

you know what we could do if you guys are all super convinced Tanner = good?

we could like totally spare him and give peace a chance.

i do not consent to this

I'm not really hiding my reads - I just find it unlikely there are useful reads in the first place when there is no stakes in the interactions

you could make it so that there *are* stakes... which is what genocide does.

also why would you willingly make the game more difficult and (more importantly) more frustrating?

pedit: hi taylor
love to see alignment talk
do you have any more hot takes

[Tayl0r Swift]

thats like me saying i need to get to work and can either a) drive or b) teleport. if i succeed at b itll be pretty amazing, but i think ill stick to a because its important that i get to work.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea but this is a game

we're not exactly doing life and death testing of some teleportation device

btw does any1 have a link to the other undercity games so I can see what you guys are talking about

[Tayl0r Swift]

is elements normally this quiet as town?

[Tayl0r Swift]

yea but this is a game

we're not exactly doing life and death testing of some teleportation device

btw does any1 have a link to the other undercity games so I can see what you guys are talking about

ok but if you concede that fighting has the higher odds of winning then by sparing you are playing against wincon. why would you do that

[Morning Tweet]

doing it 4 times in a row will not be a walk in the park with nightkills

I don't think I ever presented it as "easy"

but I do believe it will be a worthy goal and an amazing win if we can pull it off :)

Why go out of our way to do something that we can demonstrate will be harder and has like 20% to 25%ish less odds of town winning?

to be fair pooky's insistence on sparing probably makes pooky town. sticking out like a sore thumb in the rear end is not what scum wants to do.

I guess that has some merit but i can kind of see scum!pooky going like "My strategy is to fight tooth and nail for sparing even if the whole thread opposes me. and then I get townread for it!!"

But actually hold that thought cause i thought i saw a thing or two that felt like Pooky really believes in what he's saying. so maybe not, cause if he's playing a bit like that, then he is definitely not taking it seriously and would be faking it