FGO: Mafia in the Lostbelt (Game Over!)

[Servant Beast]

If scum decided to cede the master to town, which they evidently did, their votes end up literally anywhere.

This is not true. Some town options can be better than others for scum. You're putting the cart before the horse.

Also, Hi Beast.

Hi Saber! We haven't talked alot. We should probably do that before something something scum associations. Especially since you are blindly voting me as the fourth wagon right now...

[Servant Rider]

If scum decided to cede the master to town, which they evidently did, their votes end up literally anywhere.

This is not true. Some town options can be better than others for scum. You're putting the cart before the horse.

Only if you look at the end of d0. I was talking in terms of the bigger picture of d0. Ceding master to town early allows scum to avoid associatives with each other because they can't/aren't pushing a wagon on one of their own. As such, they can individually vote anyone they like.

And certainly, some town options will be better than scum for others. However, this predicates two things, scum knowing roles and scum believing that person X will have less of an impact on town as an IC than others. The former is impossible (excepting the people who outed information) and the latter is far more likely. I do think Archer jumped to Avenger of his own volition and that he was coached (or more likely ordered) to go back to Assassin.

I suppose my point is, where are you going with all this?

It's my cog dis because of how Lancer admitted he was inactive. He didn't accuse people of being scummy for pushing him but he took responsibility for his prior play.

I like naked voting right now because I feel we have scum on the ropes but then I see a post like that and I am not so sure.

I'm getting a bit confused. So you're saying that you're being inconsistent on how you're reading lancer because you liked his admission? And what does naked voting have to do with it?

[Cabd]

Vote Count D1-6 (Second Elimination)

With 13 players alive, it will take 7 votes to eliminate a player.

Caster (3): Beast, Berserker, Shielder
Shielder (3): Foreigner, Avenger, Caster
Lancer (1): Rider
Beast (1): Saber

Phase Page Usage: 25/60

Day one will end in: (expired on 2020-09-18 22:00:00)

[Cabd]

Servant Foreigner has been prodded.

[Servant Rider]

Also no, Avenger, I haven't forgotten about you.

Rider Readslist Z:

Town: Alter Ego, Berserker, Avenger
Mostly town: Foreigner, Moon Cancer

Nobody above this line gets touched.
------------------------------------------
This set I'm sort of struggling with what to do with.

Caster - I have never wanted someone to be town like I want Caster to be town. I put Caster here because they're getting bogged down in other people scumreading them instead of doing proper hedgewizard magicks. I'd like to see them come back.

Saber - I dunno what to think about this slot either. I strongly disagreed with Saber 1.0 for their stance on d0, but they were at least consistent with it. Saber 2.0 has strange opinions and I'm not sure what to do with them yet. GTH town, but eeeeeh.

Shielder - You might be surprised to see this slot not in my "die in fire" pile. I'm a little surprised too. Now they've been more active, I can see what about them set off Berserker's mama bear instincts. I strongly scumread them through d0 and coming into d1, and laughed aloud when they claimed their d0 play was due to not wanting the master upgrade. Thing is though, they have some opinions and ways of looking at the game that are just

alien

to me. I've started to wonder if they're just really new at this whole mafia thing, or just have a skewed way of playing it. Pretty sure that's why Mama Bear is campaigning hard for them. Also I have in my notes wondering if they're just a stool pigeon for scum at this point.

------------------------------------------
People below this line can die.

Lancer - Duh.
Ruler - I didn't like Ruler 1.0's thread entrance. Didn't like the random swap to Caster in d0. Didn't like the explanation for it. Activity level sucks.
Beast - Don't like how/why they're sheeping Berserker. Didn't like their d0 play, or lack thereof. Activity level also sucks. Got a bit better, but still don't like the slot.

Fire away, Avenger.

[Servant Foreigner]

Sorry, I don't want to out why I've gone MIA as it may pertain to my main.
But I have a good reason to not be posting and may continue to not post for probably another 48 hours.

[Servant Foreigner]

Caster wagon is pretty bad, not the people on it, outside shielder of course.
But it just isn't going to hit scum.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

Does anyone on the Caster wagon think that it's going to go anywhere if you don't try to persuade a fairly large contingent of the game that Caster is likely to be scum?

[Servant Alter Ego]

Also no, Avenger, I haven't forgotten about you.

Rider Readslist Z:

Town: Alter Ego, Berserker, Avenger
Mostly town: Foreigner, Moon Cancer

Nobody above this line gets touched.
------------------------------------------
This set I'm sort of struggling with what to do with.

Caster - I have never wanted someone to be town like I want Caster to be town. I put Caster here because they're getting bogged down in other people scumreading them instead of doing proper hedgewizard magicks. I'd like to see them come back.

Saber - I dunno what to think about this slot either. I strongly disagreed with Saber 1.0 for their stance on d0, but they were at least consistent with it. Saber 2.0 has strange opinions and I'm not sure what to do with them yet. GTH town, but eeeeeh.

Shielder - You might be surprised to see this slot not in my "die in fire" pile. I'm a little surprised too. Now they've been more active, I can see what about them set off Berserker's mama bear instincts. I strongly scumread them through d0 and coming into d1, and laughed aloud when they claimed their d0 play was due to not wanting the master upgrade. Thing is though, they have some opinions and ways of looking at the game that are just

alien

to me. I've started to wonder if they're just really new at this whole mafia thing, or just have a skewed way of playing it. Pretty sure that's why Mama Bear is campaigning hard for them. Also I have in my notes wondering if they're just a stool pigeon for scum at this point.

------------------------------------------
People below this line can die.

Lancer - Duh.
Ruler - I didn't like Ruler 1.0's thread entrance. Didn't like the random swap to Caster in d0. Didn't like the explanation for it. Activity level sucks.
Beast - Don't like how/why they're sheeping Berserker. Didn't like their d0 play, or lack thereof. Activity level also sucks. Got a bit better, but still don't like the slot.

Fire away, Avenger.

I'm still waffling on where Beast and Ruler belong in my list, but this is really close to where I am now.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

i also want to clarify my claim that would be unable to chain master to anyone else. i can chain master to one, but only one person.

I'm a little behind at the moment, but has anyone else claimed to have this variation?

I originally thought Cabd might have been troll enough to include one player who doesn't have what I think is the shared ability (D1 + D2, one player a day) but I do not believe Cabd gave a single town player the ability to upgrade only one player and everyone else two (unless, like, Shielder's NP is super OP but IIRC Shielder claimed that wasn't the case sooooo yeah). That sort of inconsistency doesn't really make sense from a modding perspective I think, though it's more than possible this is like a scum-exit-the-game-but-upgrade-a-buddy ability if it's real.

(I have some other thoughts about whether Shielder's play around this mechanic even makes sense but I'm not really interested in talking about it until I figure out whether it's really the only variation.)

[Servant Moon Cancer]

It occurs to me that not many people have really talked about the mechanic and whether there are any variations.

FWIW, mine would have worked by giving out one D1 and one D2, I've been assuming this is how everyone's worked until I read Shielder's claim and thought about what it means.

[Servant Alter Ego]

That's how mine would have worked, too.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

To be clear, you agree with Rider that Shielder could be town?

Do you believe what Shielder wrote about trying to bait scum into claiming they didn't have the shared mechanic when Shielder doesn't have the shared mechanic?

I'm missing a fair few pages of discussion so if this has already been talked about, whatever.

[Servant Alter Ego]

@Berserker

You had Ruler as town in the GTH exercise. Do you still feel they're town?

[Servant Alter Ego]

To be clear, you agree with Rider that Shielder could be town?

Do you believe what Shielder wrote about trying to bait scum into claiming they didn't have the shared mechanic when Shielder doesn't have the shared mechanic?

I'm missing a fair few pages of discussion so if this has already been talked about, whatever.

That's one of the reads that leads to me not being in complete agreement with the list, just...really close. I'm not sure what to think about the baiting explanation. The thing that keeps snagging when I think about Shielder has to do with saying they didn't vote Archer because it wouldn't give town any useful info.

And I look at that post and wonder why a scum-Shielder would make it.

Shielder is the main player in this game with what I perceive as whackadoodle strategies. The thing you're pointing at is another thing that doesn't make sense to me, but it's such an odd thing for a scum player to even put in the thread.

I'm struggling with Ruler, too. I feel like they've reached out to me about my takes on things several times in this game, and I don't get why me. It's a really short iso, and I feature in it pretty frequently, but not in a sorting way if that makes sense. It's a mystical townread that I don't feel like I should probe.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

I dunno, the role stuff aside, I could see scum-Shielder thinking "if I were town in this situation..." and doing that. And then trying to explain it because it was a real "if I were town..." thought process.

Even though it makes no sense. And especially doesn't make sense if Shielder doesn't even have any thoughts on what the wagon actually looked like and what it means.

I've seen town do incredibly dumb things like that though (like, stuff that makes literally zero sense but somehow they don't see the internal inconsistency) so I'm not saying there's anything inherently scummy about it, just that it doesn't make me feel "yeah, town" (and I dislike reading things I consider incredibly bad play).

The role stuff is more clear cut to me because I'm not even looking at the motivations behind it, even though it legitimately makes zero sense to me that a TOWN player would think "I'm going to try to bait scum into claiming a NON-STANDARD thing when I myself have a NON-STANDARD thing" - like, if I had a NON-STANDARD aspect to my role that almost everyone but me had claimed, I wouldn't think "oh, if anyone else claims something NON-STANDARD, they're scum! I'll try to bait that!"

[Servant Moon Cancer]

(When I say the role stuff is more clear-cut, I mean I don't even really need to think about the motivations if it's just a fake-claim to begin with.)

(Unless Shielder is gonna come in again and be like "lol I was just baiting a second time, guys!!!")

[Servant Moon Cancer]

I should also mention that I'm pretty biased towards the idea of Shielder being scum purely via POE at this point, so feel free to take my posts with a grain of salt with regards to Shielder, though I really do not believe that claim.

My read on Beast fluctuates each time I read her posts.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

I also don't agree with anyone who's saying "don't go after Shielder today because there are bigger fish to fry" (especially when one of those bigger fish is apparently Caster? And I don't really see Caster as scum).

Other than the fact this is a role madness and those bigger fish have a higher likelihood of being fried at night with another scum down today anyway, it's just lazy to put off getting rid of someone because it's too easy or whatever.

I'm probably going to do some reading tonight and ultimately decide on whether or not I feel like getting rid of Shielder today, but if I end up thinking Shielder is the most likely to be scum, then so be it. I don't care if it's "low hanging fruit" or whatever you want to call it.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

(Also I think the Shielder wagon is probably all town at the moment, so this low hanging fruit doesn't seem to be all that low hanging for scum.)

[Servant Shielder]

like i said before, i do actually have the ability to give one person a master upgrade. but only one.

[Servant Shielder]

moon cancer, once youre caught up could you say who you think the scum are if its not anyone on my wagon?

[Servant Moon Cancer]

Wait, are you saying you can do that regardless of the master phase or that you only got it with the master upgrade from the master phase?

[Tayl0r Swift]

if i got mastered i could have chained it to one person.

[Servant Moon Cancer]

May you rest in peace.