Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)


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Post Post #875 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:27 am

Post by lilith2013 »

V
OTECOUNT
2.015
P
LAYER
N
AME
C
URRENT
V
OTES
S
TRENGTH
S
PEED
K
NOWLEDGE
P
LAYER
N
AME
Gamma Emerald
Nosferatu
EL-6
3
2
4
Gamma Emerald
SirCakez
None
EL-7
2
3
3
SirCakez
CreativeMod1
None
EL-7
3
3
3
CreativeMod1
Albert B. Rampage
PenguinPower, Fun and Games, Ydrasse
EL-4
3
3
3
Albert B. Rampage
Pine
SirCakez, Gamma Emerald, JohnnyFarrar, CreativeMod1, Albert B. Rampage
EL-2
3
3
4
Pine
Bingle
None
EL-7
3
3
3
Bingle
Nosferatu
None
EL-7
3
3
4
Nosferatu
I Keep Siteflaking
None
EL-7
3
3
3
I Keep Siteflaking
PenguinPower
None
EL-7
3
3
3
PenguinPower
Fun and Games
None
EL-7
3
3
3
Fun and Games
Ydrasse
None
EL-7
3
3
3
Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar
Bingle, I Keep Siteflaking
EL-5
3
3
3
JohnnyFarrar
Not Voting
Pine
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate.
Deadline: (expired on 2020-10-11 20:28:04)
Notes:

wooooooooooo
PenguinPower now off V/LA - will prod in ~24 hours if he doesn't post by then
pagetops: Lilith 15 | penguin 9 | cm1 2 | ABR 2 | gamma 2 | johnnyf 2 | gb 1 | fun & games 1 | nosferatu 1
Last edited by lilith2013 on Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #876 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:41 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

In post 870, Fun and Games wrote:
In post 865, Gamma Emerald wrote:Read the damn game to know why Pine wagon is a thing
Both of us have read the game multiple times.

We understand the reasoning behind the Pine push. We just think it's really bad.

Like you think scum purposefully put +1 Knowledge on their OWN player on N0 so that he could more easily activate labs right?

The simplest counterpoint to this theory is that stats are public knowledge and it doesn't make sense to sacrifice a scum-player just to activate a lab.

More importantly -
labs do not matter this early in the game


There are currently at least 8-9 town players (3-4 scum) and only TWO labs activated - which means the bad guys are nowhere close to fulfilling their lab activation victory condition.

This means we have plenty of time to de-activate these activated labs - at least a few night-phases- though ideally we would just kill the bad guys and win the game that way. The best chance the town has to de-activate these labs is to have high knowledge players try to deactivate labs - so shouldn't we at least give Pine a chance to de-activate these labs instead of just yeeting him? If he fails like multiple times then your case for yeeting him gets much better.
I'm not solely arguing scum put knowledge on themselves because it benefits them. I'm saying it because two labs being activated points to that idea. The whole meat of this is entirely based around the known events of the game, where Pine got knowledge n0 and then 2 labs got activated n1. Pine very well could have the same role (aka career, just to lean on game terminology for a second) I do, which would have allowed him to activate a lab for free once in addition to still being able to use a night action through speed to do it. Pine also just hasn't been contributing, and when he's this low contribution as town I generally see him replace out or at least be upfront about it being a problem. So there's a non-mechanical reasoning for Pine to be scum.
Now, let's talk hypotheticals off of Pine's flip. If he flips with my Career (which I expect should show up in the flip despite full role text not) then we can treat my theory as effectively confirmed. If he flips as scum with a different role, then it says 2 things: that scum probably did end up using two standard night actions to activate those labs, and that it probably takes a relatively low roll to get. If he flips town we at least have a ton of wagon information to analyze from today and maybe yesterday. So I think yeeting him today is at the very least a strongly informative move.

As for whether labs matter, they ALWAYS matter. If we can destroy the labs now, they won't be around later, and I imagine there's a good chance there won't be infinite labs.
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Post Post #877 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:43 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

And like, we now have TWO people with at least as much knowledge as Pine, so the "let him stick around to destroy labs" idea doesn't really work for me when there's 2 people who are seemingly just as effective.
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Post Post #878 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:45 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 867, Ydrasse wrote:i feel like a lot of this game is just going over my head at this point but @_@

VOTE: abr

we have some time and i don't really get saying that we should get a hammer ready when the game has finally picked up. idk if it's like, trying to get an elim through before pressure heightens or trying to get another doctor to not post more stuff + the cred of a scumflip buuuuut. i don't like it.
I actually like this post a lot. I feel v similarly.
In post 871, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Does anyone have a meta read on Albert? Just curious. I played with them years and years ago but can't say with any confidence that I remember anything about their scum vs town game.
I've never had success using meta on Albert - it backfired really badly on me (and him sorta too lol) recently
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Post Post #879 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:34 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Cakez tunneled me in one of our games and I vigged him. We were both town. I had all the scum pegged and we were going to lynch them all but the scum had a win condition that didn't require having majority.
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Post Post #880 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 6:38 am

Post by Bingle »

In post 876, Gamma Emerald wrote:I'm not solely arguing scum put knowledge on themselves because it benefits them. I'm saying it because two labs being activated points to that idea. The whole meat of this is entirely based around the known events of the game, where Pine got knowledge n0 and then 2 labs got activated n1. Pine very well could have the same role (aka career, just to lean on game terminology for a second) I do, which would have allowed him to activate a lab for free once in addition to still being able to use a night action through speed to do it. Pine also just hasn't been contributing, and when he's this low contribution as town I generally see him replace out or at least be upfront about it being a problem. So there's a non-mechanical reasoning for Pine to be scum.
Now, let's talk hypotheticals off of Pine's flip. If he flips with my Career (which I expect should show up in the flip despite full role text not) then we can treat my theory as effectively confirmed. If he flips as scum with a different role, then it says 2 things: that scum probably did end up using two standard night actions to activate those labs, and that it probably takes a relatively low roll to get. If he flips town we at least have a ton of wagon information to analyze from today and maybe yesterday. So I think yeeting him today is at the very least a strongly informative move.

As for whether labs matter, they ALWAYS matter. If we can destroy the labs now, they won't be around later, and I imagine there's a good chance there won't be infinite labs.
:/

First, despite all of my attempts to use your roleclaim to find out, you remain adamant that you don't know what roll scum need to activate a lab. I would wager, in fact, that activating a lab is comparatively easy to destroying one, because in a game without nightkills scum is going to need some serious advantages. Your mechanical argument for Pine scum is a very weak case, yet it's seen a disproportionate amount of support.

Second, can you provide instances of Pine town apologizing for not being around in the early game? I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

Third, Careers almost assuredly don't flip given the mod information that everyone has a career and the fact that GB didn't flip with a career, just as a test subject.

Fourth, if you can destroy labs and act normally at night, why didn't you attempt to destroy a lab on N0? There should have been no drawback to attempting given it would have been a free action and it's public knowledge that labs get harder to destroy when they're active, something I doubt you wouldn't have read with a role about destroying labs. If you can guarantee a lab's destruction (you more or less softed that with and ), then guaranteeing a lab's destruction early on for free is exactly equal to guaranteeing a lab's destruction late game for free, with the added benefit of it not risking you dying before you manage it.

Frankly, I don't think your actions line up to a town perspective and your claim is unbelievable. I think you're trying to railroad Pine, which is pretty much the entire reason I'm not going to vote for him.
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Post Post #881 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 7:34 am

Post by PenguinPower »

Vla lasted longer than I thought. I’ll be caught up by tonight.
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Post Post #882 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:15 am

Post by JohnnyFarrar »

Bingle what does lamist mean
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Post Post #883 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:50 am

Post by SirCakez »

look at me I'm so town
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Post Post #884 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:59 am

Post by JohnnyFarrar »

Aw shid I knew that.
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Post Post #885 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:04 am

Post by I Keep Siteflaking »

VOTE: abr
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Post Post #886 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:05 am

Post by JohnnyFarrar »

Bingle what do you think about ... well... anything? Is anyone scummy? Or town? You've posted a lot but I can't call anything you believe to mind

P: WHAT if we don't do one today we should do iksy
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Post Post #887 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:06 am

Post by JohnnyFarrar »

Ebwop if we don't do *pine*
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Post Post #888 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:22 am

Post by Fun and Games »

In post 872, Albert B. Rampage wrote:All my games are updated in my wiki.

Voting me is counter-productive to me solving you. My power is my night time attack. If I find a weapon it becomes even more powerful. I could probably 1-shot some of you with good dice rolls. I plan on solving this game alone and doing what's necessary to win. You're either with me or against me.

Can you be more specific about your power? It would really help us solve your slot.
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Post Post #889 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:25 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I'm a vig, better than even chances to one-shot a 3-3-3 player, if I get a weapon it becomes almost certain to one-shot them unless they roll perfectly.
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Post Post #890 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:28 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Class is NAI but mine is called "warrior"
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Post Post #891 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:28 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Why?
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Post Post #892 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:29 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 886, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Bingle what do you think about ... well... anything? Is anyone scummy? Or town? You've posted a lot but I can't call anything you believe to mind

P: WHAT if we don't do one today we should do iksy
Yes we can. For sure one or two scum are voting me. I will decide what to do about it soon. Their time will come.
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Post Post #893 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:40 am

Post by Fun and Games »

In post 889, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I'm a vig, better than even chances to one-shot a 3-3-3 player, if I get a weapon it becomes almost certain to one-shot them unless they roll perfectly.

Do you get a bonus to your attack role or a bonus to damage dealt? I'm curious to the mechanism.
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Post Post #894 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 9:49 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

There is nothing alignment indicative in me describing the mechanic of my attack.
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Post Post #895 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:39 am

Post by JohnnyFarrar »

Let's talk potential night targets ally. I don't wanna narrow it down too much, because I don't want to risk a block or something, but I don't wanna get blindsided either.

Also, did you attack someone yesterday?
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Post Post #896 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:52 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

In post 895, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Let's talk potential night targets ally. I don't wanna narrow it down too much, because I don't want to risk a block or something, but I don't wanna get blindsided either.

Also, did you attack someone yesterday?
Like I've been saying all day, I'm taking suggestions. It's a waste if I use my attack on someone who everyone agrees is scum and we will lynch anyway.

No, I went to the gym so I could explore and find a weapon + attack tonight.
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Post Post #897 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 10:59 am

Post by SirCakez »

no problem with an ABR vote but why aren't you pushing me if I'm your top SR?
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Post Post #898 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:00 am

Post by SirCakez »

In post 786, I Keep Siteflaking wrote:
In post 777, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Who should I teach iks
The highiest person on this list you townread:
-Nosferatu
-Gamma
-Pine
-everyone else
-Cakez
judging from this
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I just wanna say Cakez is an evil mod and this is an evil setup.
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Post Post #899 (ISO) » Wed Oct 07, 2020 11:07 am

Post by lilith2013 »

boop
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