Newbie 2037 - Game Over

[Billy Pilgrim]

I honestly don't know. I think being the informed minority, there's a psychological burden on the mafia of trying to scumhunt knowing fully well that there is no other secret faction to hunt down, while having survival as the top priority to achieve their wincon at the same time. I plan to try and deduce on this basis.

And how are you going to do that?

By constantly checking if a play is more likely a result from that mindset than a townie mindset, I guess?
For example padwag and bakslash have both hit high notes, I'll talk about that.

I don't really see how 3 and 4 are more useful to town than scum, that's one of the reasons for my vote.

I’ve asked these questions in multiple games before and as I mentioned it not only gets people talking, but it allows the town to get to know each other. Unfortunately scum is part of our town, but these questions can tell us a lot, even though you don’t think so. Think about it, if I hadn’t asked those questions what would be happening right now? Nothing. I even got you to vote for me. I didn’t RVS vote, instead I did RQS. I don’t have to waste a pointless vote, but now I can interact with the playerlist and go from there.

Oh well, I may have over reacted. Now that I think about it, it wouldn't have made much of a difference for either faction (especially for scum you).
You're back to being a null read then.

Billy Pilgrim seems to be town right now because they are thinking about the game, but this is a weak read as we have barely started.

I can see this post come from scum trying to pump out reads since Billy's only game related posts at this point were two votes (22, 23) which I think SE scum would have had no difficulty making at all.

I am testing reactions

what do you make of bak's post?

Not much. I feel that town or scum could question my vote like that, especially as it was given with no context.

But isn't it strange that he only chose to question the vote on him, and not Mini's or Billy's?
The defensive nature kinda points to the survival aspect of a scum mindset, IMO.

I have to go to work soon, will post more when I'm back in about ~6 hours.
Is it normal in these newbie games to have an SE teamed up with a newb as the scum faction? What a the chances of a SE/SE or a newb/newb pairing?

you are prolly town for asking that lol
but i think it's purely random, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise

Why does this question make him town?

I think that's the last thing to be on a scummer's mind, and I actually thought about this when the game started.
I know it sounds a bit LAMIST, but my gut just tells me this is town, I don't know how to explain it.

I am testing reactions

what do you make of bak's post?

I think I like you. Im not getting town feels from many slots early, but this one feels that way.

Wanna play chess? (im a noob btw)

Spoiler:

1.e4

Sorry, I only play on my phone so I dont do well with snipping quotes, so I tend to just mass quote it. The post where you're talking about padwag's early read of me, are you saying thats the type of post to come from scum!padwag because my content wasn't enough to warrant a townread?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I honestly don't know. I think being the informed minority, there's a psychological burden on the mafia of trying to scumhunt knowing fully well that there is no other secret faction to hunt down, while having survival as the top priority to achieve their wincon at the same time. I plan to try and deduce on this basis.

And how are you going to do that?

By constantly checking if a play is more likely a result from that mindset than a townie mindset, I guess?
For example padwag and bakslash have both hit high notes, I'll talk about that.

I don't really see how 3 and 4 are more useful to town than scum, that's one of the reasons for my vote.

I’ve asked these questions in multiple games before and as I mentioned it not only gets people talking, but it allows the town to get to know each other. Unfortunately scum is part of our town, but these questions can tell us a lot, even though you don’t think so. Think about it, if I hadn’t asked those questions what would be happening right now? Nothing. I even got you to vote for me. I didn’t RVS vote, instead I did RQS. I don’t have to waste a pointless vote, but now I can interact with the playerlist and go from there.

Oh well, I may have over reacted. Now that I think about it, it wouldn't have made much of a difference for either faction (especially for scum you).
You're back to being a null read then.

Billy Pilgrim seems to be town right now because they are thinking about the game, but this is a weak read as we have barely started.

I can see this post come from scum trying to pump out reads since Billy's only game related posts at this point were two votes (22, 23) which I think SE scum would have had no difficulty making at all.

I am testing reactions

what do you make of bak's post?

Not much. I feel that town or scum could question my vote like that, especially as it was given with no context.

But isn't it strange that he only chose to question the vote on him, and not Mini's or Billy's?
The defensive nature kinda points to the survival aspect of a scum mindset, IMO.

I have to go to work soon, will post more when I'm back in about ~6 hours.
Is it normal in these newbie games to have an SE teamed up with a newb as the scum faction? What a the chances of a SE/SE or a newb/newb pairing?

you are prolly town for asking that lol
but i think it's purely random, since it wouldn't be fair otherwise

Why does this question make him town?

I think that's the last thing to be on a scummer's mind, and I actually thought about this when the game started.
I know it sounds a bit LAMIST, but my gut just tells me this is town, I don't know how to explain it.

I am testing reactions

what do you make of bak's post?

I think I like you. Im not getting town feels from many slots early, but this one feels that way.

Wanna play chess? (im a noob btw)

Spoiler:

1.e4

Spoiler:

If that chess game was for.me, I'd play e5. I domt know how to bbcode it though.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think padwag is scummier but I'll do bak for now.

VOTE: bakslash
That's E-2

Can you explain your thoughts on this. 1) why do you think padwag is scummier than bakslash? 2) why if you think that did you put a 3rd vote on your less favored candidate?

[Billy Pilgrim]

I think padwag is scummier but I'll do bak for now.

VOTE: bakslash
That's E-2

How did this happen 4 pages in?? What is town going to get out of this?

What about this is striking to you? Is it the third vote/E-2 or is it something else?

[Billy Pilgrim]

You really think I’d be asking the town how to scum?

You have a good point there I don’t think you would but I would say the same thing to anyone that asked those questions

Can you explain your comment then?

It seems scummy to do but I’ve played with Italiano before so I don’t think they would need to ask for their benefit

What is your read of Italiano at the moment?

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: padwag

I think padwag is scummier but I'll do bak for now.

VOTE: bakslash
That's E-2

Why do you think Padwag is scummy? And like Mini said, if you think he’s scummier, why wouldn’t you vote for him?

I see alot of us had this thought.

[Billy Pilgrim]

I am testing reactions

this post actually gives off town vibes to me tbh, i can elaborate on this if someone wants (ps im not really good at articulation

What changed?

UNVOTE:

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: padwag

I think padwag is scummier but I'll do bak for now.

VOTE: bakslash
That's E-2

Why do you think Padwag is scummy? And like Mini said, if you think he’s scummier, why wouldn’t you vote for him?

Like I said in 93, I don't like his read on Billy.
I feel like being on the bak wagon is the better move ATM.

I am testing reactions

this post actually gives off town vibes to me tbh, i can elaborate on this if someone wants (ps im not really good at articulation

What changed?

Well, my initial read was based on just a single post, so it was as weak as it could get
It followed a bunch of wrong premises so it doesn't mean anything anymore.

Can you explain the scum agenda of his light town read on me?
And I dont understand your thought process as to why being on the bak wagon is better. Can you explain that?

[Billy Pilgrim]

Billy RVS votes Dunnstral, which is fine. Votes padwag in 22 for voting RVS. Kinda unfair imo, but then flips it in 23, which I’m guessing pulled us/him out of RVS. I asked him what was on his mind regarding this in 60 (more on that later)

If padwag was RVS voting and claimed to be testing reactions (which is the purpose of RVS) seems like Billy should have just let it go. RVS votes don’t always need an explanation before placing it down.

Not sure what he was expecting to get in 79. Looks to be asking just to ask. 80 is similar where it doesn’t seem that padwag’s answer(s) would give him anything of substance. 81 and 82 follow the same theme.

88 is just unfair, given that Billy voted for someone who hadn’t posted yet (Dunnstral)

I also feel Billy is trying to pocket (get them on his side) possible newbie townies in 83 and 85.

In the back of my mind Billy is scum and will probably and ultimately be my final vote of the day, but we have time for more interactions and activity.

I admit I didn't explain 79 all that well. I wanted to find out what he meant when he said that he answered to avoid being scumread. Now, I didn't ask that directly, but I do find it slightly interesting that when I drew his attention to "the first part" he snipped that part from his original quote. After he answers I'll explain what I'm after, but I dont think this was a 3000iq play either.

As for 88, yeah, I voted for someone who hadnt posted yet... since I was the first to post. Unless I voted for Micc since he technically beat me to the thread. Damn mod taking my pagetop. You don't find it slightly interesting that he posts 23 posts into the game, where most people have already posted, there's a decent bit of content and he votes someone who hasn't posted in the thread? That tells me that maybe he didn't read the thread before posting? That tells me that maybe he came into the game with a plan of who to rvs.

And you think im pocketing them because I thought they had townie thought processes? Did you not get anything AI from those posts?

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: padwag

Actually no, this was worse

VOTE: bakslash

Not sure where your head is on this? RVS? Serious?

I dont understand the question. I dont approach these games as though there's some magical point where the game shifts from RVS to serious. Theres a wiki thread I think that talks about the early game as the Low Information stage. I like to think of it that way.

Okay? Not sure why you don’t understand. I was asking if these votes were RVS votes or serious ones? I assumed your bakslash one was based on the wording, but I just wanted to make sure. My bad if I didn’t make it clear.

I started with my role and alignment, and I voted randomly. When I made those votes, I had a page of content and most folks had popped into the thread. So I picked the opening that I felt was the most scummy and voted it. I thought padwag's vote was fine,

but the answer to the question was weird.

How was it weird? Isn’t that what RVS’ purpose is? Reactions?

But then I realized that bakslash hadnt posted already. Their first post in the game was literally to quote padwag's naked vote and put a question mark. Didn't engage with any of the content that was there, just put a weird question out.

That’s all fine. Thank you.

Maybe I was being a bit snippy when I originally answered. The reason I put that piece about LIV out there was to convey that after my first vote, it's not random anymore. Like, it may not be a lockscum read, but its not something that's completely random. So both padwag and bakslash had openings that weren't

great

. But I thought bakslash's was worse which I've already explained.

[Billy Pilgrim]

VOTE: padwag

Actually no, this was worse

VOTE: bakslash

Not sure where your head is on this? RVS? Serious?

I dont understand the question. I dont approach these games as though there's some magical point where the game shifts from RVS to serious. Theres a wiki thread I think that talks about the early game as the Low Information stage. I like to think of it that way.

Okay? Not sure why you don’t understand. I was asking if these votes were RVS votes or serious ones? I assumed your bakslash one was based on the wording, but I just wanted to make sure. My bad if I didn’t make it clear.

I started with my role and alignment, and I voted randomly. When I made those votes, I had a page of content and most folks had popped into the thread. So I picked the opening that I felt was the most scummy and voted it. I thought padwag's vote was fine,

but the answer to the question was weird.

How was it weird? Isn’t that what RVS’ purpose is? Reactions?

But then I realized that bakslash hadnt posted already. Their first post in the game was literally to quote padwag's naked vote and put a question mark. Didn't engage with any of the content that was there, just put a weird question out.

That’s all fine. Thank you.

Forgot to respond to the middle question.

Two times people in this game have done something that they claim was a reaction test then within five posts, have explained that it was a reaction test. I dont believe either of them. By the way, this is why I voted padwag. Not because he did an rvs vote, but because he claimed he was doing a reaction test where he got the most predictable reaction, and then before he could see if anyone else.would react to it, he admitted it was a reaction test. Like that's looking busy to look busy.

Then rockhopper votes bakslash, "to see how he would respond" and doesn't even give bakslash a chance to respond before saying thats why he put him there. Honestly both those moves look like searching for town cred.

[padwag]

Well minimegabyte, I got there, but I tried putting in pictures and it didn't work.

[padwag]

(for the avatar thing)

[padwag]

(for the avatar thing)

[padwag]

VOTE: padwag

Actually no, this was worse

VOTE: bakslash

Not sure where your head is on this? RVS? Serious?

I dont understand the question. I dont approach these games as though there's some magical point where the game shifts from RVS to serious. Theres a wiki thread I think that talks about the early game as the Low Information stage. I like to think of it that way.

Okay? Not sure why you don’t understand. I was asking if these votes were RVS votes or serious ones? I assumed your bakslash one was based on the wording, but I just wanted to make sure. My bad if I didn’t make it clear.

I started with my role and alignment, and I voted randomly. When I made those votes, I had a page of content and most folks had popped into the thread. So I picked the opening that I felt was the most scummy and voted it. I thought padwag's vote was fine,

but the answer to the question was weird.

How was it weird? Isn’t that what RVS’ purpose is? Reactions?

But then I realized that bakslash hadnt posted already. Their first post in the game was literally to quote padwag's naked vote and put a question mark. Didn't engage with any of the content that was there, just put a weird question out.

That’s all fine. Thank you.

Forgot to respond to the middle question.

Two times people in this game have done something that they claim was a reaction test then within five posts, have explained that it was a reaction test. I dont believe either of them. By the way, this is why I voted padwag. Not because he did an rvs vote, but because he claimed he was doing a reaction test where he got the most predictable reaction, and then before he could see if anyone else.would react to it, he admitted it was a reaction test. Like that's looking busy to look busy.

Then rockhopper votes bakslash, "to see how he would respond" and doesn't even give bakslash a chance to respond before saying thats why he put him there. Honestly both those moves look like searching for town cred.

Honestly, I said it was a reaction test because I didn't want to leave bakslash hanging.

[MiniMegabyte]

Well minimegabyte, I got there, but I tried putting in pictures and it didn't work.

That could be because the picture was too big. There is a size maximum

[padwag]

Where do you find an image to put as your avatar

[MiniMegabyte]

Where do you find an image to put as your avatar

I just got mine off google

[Rockhopper]

Like I said in 93, I don't like his read on Billy

Why exactly?

...

Sorry, I only play on my phone so I dont do well with snipping quotes, so I tend to just mass quote it. The post where you're talking about padwag's early read of me, are you saying thats the type of post to come from scum!padwag because my content wasn't enough to warrant a townread?

Exactly. Do neither of you feel the same way?

I think padwag is scummier but I'll do bak for now.

VOTE: bakslash
That's E-2

Can you explain your thoughts on this. 1) why do you think padwag is scummier than bakslash? 2) why if you think that did you put a 3rd vote on your less favored candidate?

1) I can see town posting something like bak's 20 more often than pad's 63.
2) I obviously don't have any intention of eliminating bak this early. A wagon consisting of unique reasons has its own advantages IMO, so I feel like it's a better choice than having a scatter of low pressure votes shifting throughout the game.

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

[chess]
1.e4 e5 
2.Nf3
[/chess]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3

[Rockhopper]

Dunnstral, say something

[Rockhopper]

VOTE: padwag

[Dunnstral]

88 is just unfair, given that Billy voted for someone who hadn’t posted yet (Dunnstral)

Yeah, that is weird.

Dunnstral, say something

What do you want from me?

[Dunnstral]

I'll say that prefacing your pressure vote with an explanation means that your vote doesn't mean anything

[Facebones]

I admit I didn't explain 79 all that well. I wanted to find out what he meant when he said that he answered to avoid being scumread. Now, I didn't ask that directly, but I do find it slightly interesting that when I drew his attention to "the first part" he snipped that part from his original quote. After he answers I'll explain what I'm after, but I dont think this was a 3000iq play either.

Thought it was a bit of a strange question, haha. Apologies for misinterpreting what you meant by "the first part".

What would you like to know? Is the preface to my answers really all that important in the grand scheme of things? Isn't normal want to avoid being scumread?

[padwag]

Face