Open 798 | PYPX/Y+I/M | Game Over!

[davesaz]

shading a slot

VOTE: Best Bird
The people who accuse me of shading universally end up being scum.

[davesaz]

Wow this pagetop thing works so much better when you aren't even paying attention to it.

[skitter30]

dgb was essentially a guaranteed lim, and if i were scum i would just hard defend her instead of being on that lim

This thing, which is essentially saying:

town would be on this DGB lim, scum would hard defend her but that's not what I (TGP) did
which is the pattern "town would do x where scum would do y but I did x" and in a town mindset you don't put it that way.

Pretty sure there is at least one other post where the same type of logic is used.

oh yeah i kinda agree with you, i've noticed a personal tendency to use that sort of logic as scum sometimes ^

pedit don't vote the bird. i get that he's winding you up a bit but i think you're both town tbh

[Best Bird]

Near deadline? How delusional are you?

[Best Bird]

Lololololol

[Best Bird]

tgp

Make you case instead of just whispering someone's name.

Nah. Worked last time pretty well.

[davesaz]

Near deadline? How delusional are you?

Yesterday, remember the thing I just quoted where I suggested you put your Pine vote to work and you told me to buzz off?

[Best Bird]

Like that was the worst response to being questioned I’ve seen in a long time.

[Best Bird]

2.5 days is not near deadline.

[Best Bird]

I’m logging off. You’re being p.bad.

[Hoopla]

hey everyone, just letting you know i'm back in the saddle and will be catching up in earnest.

what did i say about not posting too much while i was gone, hmm?

[Hoopla]

this complaint might be me showing my age, but i find menalque's style of posting obscene. we're playing on a forum, so treating the game as a chatroom automatically brings out that style of posting in everyone else who wants to participate in the game thread.

if this continues, we're going to be stuck in a perpetual state where there's always a segment of the playerlist in catchup mode, and not able to participate in the current conversation. at the moment it's me, but i don't want to have to play at this pace to be heard.

menalque, is it too much to ask to filter your thoughts and not dominate the conversation like this?

like yeah, you've been under pressure - and you've improved my ability to get a read on you (feels like an explosion of town energy that is hard to fake), but it's come at the expense of drowning out everyone else, to the point where i feel like many of my other reads have capsized in a sea of pointless babble.

the same goes for skitter too. can we please try for a better balance of voices?

literally all i've taken away from today is menalque-probtown on play (but going to think about mechanics in my next post), and that there probably isn't a menalque/skitter scumpairing.

[Infinity 324]

Not sure about others, I have found that when I'm able to bounce reads off of people and engage in real time my town winrate goes up by a lot. But I will try to be considerate for the people who have to try to keep up.

[petapan]

this complaint might be me showing my age, but i find menalque's style of posting obscene. we're playing on a forum, so treating the game as a chatroom automatically brings out that style of posting in everyone else who wants to participate in the game thread.

if this continues, we're going to be stuck in a perpetual state where there's always a segment of the playerlist in catchup mode, and not able to participate in the current conversation. at the moment it's me, but i don't want to have to play at this pace to be heard.

menalque, is it too much to ask to filter your thoughts and not dominate the conversation like this?

like yeah, you've been under pressure - and you've improved my ability to get a read on you (feels like an explosion of town energy that is hard to fake), but it's come at the expense of drowning out everyone else, to the point where i feel like many of my other reads have capsized in a sea of pointless babble.

the same goes for skitter too. can we please try for a better balance of voices?

literally all i've taken away from today is menalque-probtown on play (but going to think about mechanics in my next post), and that there probably isn't a menalque/skitter scumpairing.

do you have any scumreads

[Hoopla]

onto some mechanical stuff:

i think we can all safely agree that lilith is definitely a JK. there would be too much risk in the players immediately below going for her role in the draft (and getting VT), which effectively locks her into her actual role. the fact she has claimed unprompted is also a town-seeming play.

the only ways i can parse a scum-lilith universe is if:

1) scum no-killed
2) scum's kill was doc-saved, and the scumteam saw an opportunity for lilith to frame someone with a pseudo-guilty.

to me, 1 seems farfetched. it's a fabulous WIFOM play in theory, but in practice nobody does it (especially since no-killing gives the town an extra mis-elim).
as for 2, this is likelier than 1, but also seems a longshot in my eyes. outing herself as a JK as scum effectively locks her into not being able to use the role in a pro-scum way. worth mentioning the even longshottier longshot of her "framing" her buddy in menalque for an absurd bus, but i doubt it's ever this.

~~

so, if lilith is town, what are the possibilities:

3) menalque is scum and was blocked
4) menalque is town and was NK'ed
5) menalque is town and a doc save occurred elsewhere.
6) menalque is scum and a doc save occurred elsewhere.
7) menalque is town and a RB block occurred elsewhere.
8) menalque is town and a RB block occurred elsewhere.

going by menalque's play, i don't think him being blocked-scum is as likely as a doc-save occurring elsewhere (maybe on skitter?). i also don't think he had done enough D1 to warrant being a NK-candidate unless certain players are scum (like infinity or maybe someone who knows him well like skitter?)

- if we have a town RB'er and they are holding onto this info, i'd prefer them to claim it now. i want that on the table.
- if it's a doc-save, we have two prob-innocents that i don't think is wise to out themselves yet. to me, this is the most likely situation...

...but to rank them order them by likelihood:

5)

lilith-town

&

menalque

is town, and a doc save occurred elsewhere.
6)

lilith-town

&

menalque

is scum and a doc save occurred elsewhere.
4)

lilith-town

&

menalque

is town and was NK'ed
3)

lilith-town

&

menalque

is scum and was blocked
2)

lilith-scum

& scum's kill was doc-saved, and the scumteam saw an opportunity for lilith to frame

town-menalque

with a pseudo-guilty.
1)

lilith-town

or scum

& scum no-killed
2b)

lilith-scum

& scum's kill was doc-saved, and the scumteam are fake-framing

scum-menalque

with a pseudo-guilty.

not including 7 or 8 in my likelihood listing, as an RB should claim (imo).

[Hoopla]

next topic to discuss: thegoldenparadox's wagon

on play, i find him somewhat suspicious for his lack of interest in most of the playerlist D1. from recent postings, i found this disgustingly scummy:

i'm town because my interactions and progressions don't make sense for scum
like. imo the biggest difference between town and scum is the fact that town is completely in the dark whereas scum knows the alignment of every player in the game
and my posting whatever you think of my reads and my reasoning make a lot more sense from someone who's uninformed than someone who knows the alignment of every player in the game

but i really can't justify executing in the 4's yet for mechanical reasons. if you believe there is 0 or 1 scum in the 4's, we better be damn sure someone is scum in there, because it just isn't likely. each of the singletons can be in way more combinations of possible scumteams, but everyone in the 4's has three people (across two other scumslots) that they cannot be scum with (unless you really think scum have doubled up). this drastically reduces the possible combinations of scumteams a 4 can be in.

i would rather take a chance on the JK-pseudo-guilty than taking a swing at a very-town-dense pocket of the playerlist.

[Uncrowned]

And I'd rather execute the most scummy player in the lobby than worry about draft order.

This whole thing is getting a bit tedious if you ask me. We've got half the people saying they don't want to execute people high in the draft, and then we've got others saying let's not eliminate in the doubled up numbers. Ruling this many slots out for elimination based off of what is essentially theory seems far less optimal than just going by play, in which TGP has been the worst of D2 and had an extremely scummy end of D1 as well.

[Hoopla]

do you have any scumreads

you betcha.

hopefully it's not too late in the day to signal a seachange, but a lot of people have dunnstral in their solves without ever pressuring him. to me (and this is off my limited knowledge of him) his energy has been underwhelming, and it's surprising to me he's barely been voted.

also, was this post ever followed up on:

Manlque was fairly obviously blocked, stopping the kill don't out town pr, elim through claim:

VOTE: Menalque

if menalque is town and scum knows it was a doc save to explain the no-kill, this looks like cheeky attempt to hurry through the execution before the situation had been fully parsed.

VOTE: dunnstral

[Uncrowned]

And you know who didn't want a Dunn wagon to start last night when Best Bird and I were voting him?

TGP.

[Uncrowned]

How did you come to the conclusion that all the 4s have three people they can't be in a team with, and why are you so certain that the single number players have more possibilities?

Or is this based off the assumption that there's a maximum of one scum in the 4s?

[Hoopla]

And I'd rather execute the most scummy player in the lobby than worry about draft order.

This whole thing is getting a bit tedious if you ask me. We've got half the people saying they don't want to execute people high in the draft, and then we've got others saying let's not eliminate in the doubled up numbers. Ruling this many slots out for elimination based off of what is essentially theory seems far less optimal than just going by play, in which TGP has been the worst of D2 and had an extremely scummy end of D1 as well.

we should have no qualms in executing in the top half of the draft. there is likely a higher concentration of scum there.

i guess it just depends how much you value mechanics. i'm pessimistic about people's actual accuracy (mine included) when it comes to behavioural stuff. most people think they're way more accurate than they actually are. mechanical considerations can give you actual improvement on odds without needing to consider the reputation of the scumhunter you're sheeping or questioning your own intel.

obviously a balance of the two worlds is ideal, but in a game like PYP, mechanics can be really important.

[Hoopla]

How did you come to the conclusion that all the 4s have three people they can't be in a team with, and why are you so certain that the single number players have more possibilities?

Or is this based off the assumption that there's a maximum of one scum in the 4s?

i came to that conclusion based on the 15 times this setup has been run, no scumteam has doubled up their numbers. the cost of giving up PR's isn't really worth the WIFOM.

[Hoopla]

and even on the very outside chance scum did, we likely PoE them with PR/mechanical clears before endgame anyway.

[davesaz]

You’re the one voting an almost certain town pr. Doesn’t go with your post.

[Hoopla]

You’re the one voting an almost certain town pr. Doesn’t go with your post.

are you talking to me?