Death Curse

[MURDERCAT]

Uno threatening to hit Noraa is a good way to not get scrolled until later as scum

[UNOwen]

Whatever you like because without quotes, there’s no evidence.

The thing is Owno, two of you, Pooky and Fidget are getting the scroll tomorrow first and second. You’re not making it past then and you have shown no interest in receiving the scroll.

Because there’s only one scum left, there’s zero danger of scum being able to scroll anyone, so if I hypothetically shoot either Pooky or Fidget instead of you, you aren’t making past second scroll tomorrow anyway.

If you're worried I'd lie about what I've been up to when the evidence is in my ISO, then you're probably going to be worried that I'd selectively quote too. My ISO is pretty short and it might be better for you to just skim through yourself. Since you have asked though:

Spoiler:

VOTE: Lapsa
Will switch to Toogeloo if this doesn't look like a viable wagon when I log in tomorrow morning. But if we are deadline eliminating, I'd prefer to deal with the borderline trolling player who may well be scum than the probtown demob-happy self-voting panda (who I pretty much entirely sympathise with).

Where I want to curse Lapsa over Toog.

Provisionally OK with cursing Fred.
Always OK with cursing shelly.

Yo Flea, updated reads on (Noraa, shellyc, Theta, Fred, UNOwen) with justifications?

The start of day two, where the players I was looking at cursing were both scum.

My shot would be DGB atm, but her read list has thrown me off a bit because I also feel that Titus has fair chance of flipping scum. Her contributions

are

a vast improvement on Lapsa, and the reason I was looking at her is purely based on a couple of shelly interactions, which feels ugly in a game this long but I suppose can't be helped when her predecessor barely existed.

a)

DGB probtown imo, tone doesnt sound forced and scum!DGB would probably gain info of scrolling in the scum PT and would sound less clueless than atm

This was a really lame reason to town read someone. DGB is experienced, I'm sure she is capable of pretending to be clueless when replacing in. Obv shelly was faking anyway, but what matters is that it seems really weird for scum to invent a reason to lift an easily executable slot out of PoE. There are a lot of town reads, and a fairly solid town core - easy picks such as Lapsa/DGB should be the scum life blood. It reminds me of my last game with shelly, where she came up with one reason to town read her low key teammate, and then used that as an excuse not to look at him right up until endgame.

b)

Why are so few players talking about how scummy Bell is?

i can get behind a bell!scum case, elaborate on this?

This was also pretty awkward. From what I remember (and it may be that when I look back I'll find I'm misremembering) shelly had abandoned the Bell scum tunnel by this point for quite a while, so why is she breaking character to entertain a newcomers read? For me it looked like she wanted some in thread interaction with her new partner but wanted it to be entirely neutral, hence her not challenging DGB on Bell!scum.

Town:
Bell
Taylor
MURDERCAT
Gloria ??
Fidget ????
Noraa ????
Pooky ????
Flea ??????

Scum:
DGB
Adorable
Titus

Preference is DGB. The solve is probably not those three, so I'd guess there is scum in my town group. I am not ambitious enough to attempt to figure out who I am misreading there without first sorting out the scum group.

Adorable is in there still because shelly going to the defense of Adorable with "Noraa/Adorable is not s/s" (which I remember her repeating a few times) is a pretty scummy way to defend someone while leaving plenty of room to back out if necessary. I also may be falling for the WIFOM of Fred's fake out, but it just seemed like the kind of thing designed to push a scum buddy into the green zone. I had a slight town lean on her way back because the "A -> B" logic of her posts read as earnest and sincere, but she has a bit of experience behind her and I don't think that is too high a bar for her to fake.

Where I said DGB is scum.

Spoiler:

Finally. I recommend cursing shelly for dodging 2151 1000000 times.

That reveal needed a drum roll.
My recommendation is again shelly for dodging 2151 1000001 times.

Not an easy mode free win then.
Shelly thinks I am obvscum but will not try very hard to get me killed because she knows as soon as the scroll is in my hands it will be heading in her direction.

I'm not sure about shooting Adorable. I think the general OMGUS focus shows a fairly consistent perspective but from what she says Adorable has a meta of doing this which might mean she is playing it up here. Will be interesting to see how she responds to the HURT at least.

*WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM*

All active obvtown would have shot shelly here right?

*WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM*

VOTE: shellyc
This surely doesn't need much discussing? Two bullets she has dodged, let's just give her the damn scroll and be done with it.

A small selection of the times I said to curse shelly, but full picture requires an ISO.

And yes, I know that all three of us are out the door until there's been a red flip or we are all eliminated. But if one of us is scum then they must think they can change that.

[Gloria Cleary]

I was kind of hoping that the 3 pages I hadn't read were the beginning of post game. Gloria we have to kill uno because he is the only one doubting Noraa and we can't let him scroll there.

Yes, so Owno this is a very good point. Because even if you’re town, how do we know you won’t scroll Noraa? Because let’s say I shoot either town!Pooky or town!Fidget, if you’re town and you scroll Noraa, if whomever is left from Pooky/Fidget now has an in into the townblock, because while you are now arguing for Pooky!scum, you’ve made it extremely clear that Noraa is your strongest sr, no? So that makes you a threat regardless of alignment but still if I was convinced you were town over Figet/Pooky, I obviously wouldn’t shoot you but I’m not. There is actually more evidence for both Fidget!town and Pooky!town than Owno!town.

And I think if Fidget is town here, than she is the worst scroll because we can count on her to take out whomever’s left from you/Pooky the most, Pooky - second and you last because of your Noraa read. So, one of you or Pooky needs to be scrolled and I think you have the most scum equity, based off of associatives. Yes Shelley hard sr yiu but when did she ever actually try to get you scrolled?

Titus did try to get Pooky scrolled and Shelley tried to get Vax to shoot Fidget but unlike Noraa whom Shelley pushed relentlessly to be scrolled, she never really tried to get you scrolled. There’s actually zero evidence that you were ever in danger and Fred could have put a HURT on Adorable as wifom to implicate her, so scum might have possibly been afraid of LLD dying later than sooner and she was never a threat to Pooky.

[UNOwen]

I never scroll Noraa unless Pooky and Fidget have both been flipped first. The only circumstance where I scroll her now is faced with a final 3 of Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa and even then I would consider all arguments since the game would count on it, although my expectation in that situation would be that it would end with me cursing Noraa and leaving MURDERCAT/Bell as the last players standing.

[Gloria Cleary]

Only 1 scum in Shelly and Fidget.

Kill them both in the same scroll cycle cause there probably is scum in that.

Last scum...

UNOWEN Noraa or Flea.

so honestly, I think....

theta
Taylor
fred
shelly
....
UNOWEN.

That's my final thought at a solve, but Noraa Flea and Fidget are all in the "realm of concern".

Everything else is paranoia and if I'm very wrong about someone, it will replace a whole subgroup, obviously

@Owno, LLD didn’t have Pooky as a sr, so maybe scum wanted to take her out early before Theta and Tayl0r were eliminated, because she was coming after both Shelley and you and she has you in her PoE as last scum. So her scroll looks worse for you than Fidget and not at all bad for Pooky.

And considering Shelley’s already been flipped, this looks good for Fidget now as well.

[UNOwen]

Yes, so Owno this is a very good point. Because even if you’re town, how do we know you won’t scroll Noraa? Because let’s say I shoot either town!Pooky or town!Fidget, if you’re town and you scroll Noraa, if whomever is left from Pooky/Fidget now has an in into the townblock, because while you are now arguing for Pooky!scum, you’ve made it extremely clear that Noraa is your strongest sr, no? So that makes you a threat regardless of alignment but still if I was convinced you were town over Figet/Pooky, I obviously wouldn’t shoot you but I’m not. There is actually more evidence for both Fidget!town and Pooky!town than Owno!town.

I have no scum reads left. My weakest town reads in order are Pooky -> Fidget -> Noraa. But if it is Noraa then I am the only one who would shoot her out of you/Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa. That is why I wanted to survive, to cover that risk. Don't curse me because you think I'm going to try and be a hero by taking out my controversial paranoid suspicion instead of following the PoE.

But if you think I am more likely to be scum than Pooky or Fidget then obviously that's fair enough reason to scroll me.

[Gloria Cleary]

Now, since I think Noraa’s clear regardless, it could just only point to Shelley but unlike Fidget whom she had as unaligned with Shelley, she clearly thought that you and Shelley could be aligned.

[UNOwen]

@Owno, LLD didn’t have Pooky as a sr, so maybe scum wanted to take her out early before Theta and Tayl0r were eliminated, because she was coming after both Shelley and you and she has you in her PoE as last scum. So her scroll looks worse for you than Fidget and not at all bad for Pooky.

And considering Shelley’s already been flipped, this looks good for Fidget now as well.

I'll try not to mention that this shows LLD was also concerned about the risk of Noraa scum... oh wait.

That post was made after LLD had been handed the scroll, I don't think she mentioned anything about suspecting me before that. I recall she might have mentioned something about Pooky though, but not sure what without checking.

[MURDERCAT]

Honestly, if Uno is town I want that info today because otherwise I'm not really going to be reconsidering anything. Uno=town is important info I want sooner rather than later. I don't feel that way about anyone else, even Pooky.

[Gloria Cleary]

Yes, so Owno this is a very good point. Because even if you’re town, how do we know you won’t scroll Noraa? Because let’s say I shoot either town!Pooky or town!Fidget, if you’re town and you scroll Noraa, if whomever is left from Pooky/Fidget now has an in into the townblock, because while you are now arguing for Pooky!scum, you’ve made it extremely clear that Noraa is your strongest sr, no? So that makes you a threat regardless of alignment but still if I was convinced you were town over Figet/Pooky, I obviously wouldn’t shoot you but I’m not. There is actually more evidence for both Fidget!town and Pooky!town than Owno!town.

I have no scum reads left. My weakest town reads in order are Pooky -> Fidget -> Noraa. But if it is Noraa then I am the only one who would shoot her out of you/Bell/MURDERCAT/Noraa. That is why I wanted to survive, to cover that risk. Don't curse me because you think I'm going to try and be a hero by taking out my controversial paranoid suspicion instead of following the PoE.

But if you think I am more likely to be scum than Pooky or Fidget then obviously that's fair enough reason to scroll me.

I’m already dead, so Idk why you’re even mentioning me here? Bell already trs MC more than Noraa anyway, so in the extremely unlikely chance Noraa is scum, they’ve already got that covered but this is the reason I think it’s you. No one imo should be suspicious of Noraa rn and you are basically arguing that you need to get to the f4 to scroll her?

I don’t believe she’s ever scum here anyway, so you could just get her voted out and then paranoia her on shooting MC and if you’re scum, you win.

[Gloria Cleary]

@Owno, LLD didn’t have Pooky as a sr, so maybe scum wanted to take her out early before Theta and Tayl0r were eliminated, because she was coming after both Shelley and you and she has you in her PoE as last scum. So her scroll looks worse for you than Fidget and not at all bad for Pooky.

And considering Shelley’s already been flipped, this looks good for Fidget now as well.

I'll try not to mention that this shows LLD was also concerned about the risk of Noraa scum... oh wait.

That post was made after LLD had been handed the scroll, I don't think she mentioned anything about suspecting me before that. I recall she might have mentioned something about Pooky though, but not sure what without checking.

No, she didn’t have Pooky anwhere near her PoE. and you’re still trying to paranoia us on Noraa scum. Why didn’t you just say, she died because Shelley?

See you’re the only one who’s acting really suspicious here. Neither Fidget or Pooky are trying to paranoia anyone on either Bell or Noraa. Well no one is on Bell but if you successfully paranoia MC/Bell on town!Noraa then persuade her to shoot MC, we could lose.

So yes, I find your Noraa push extremely suspicious. The fact that you have zero interest in attempting to persuade me to shoot her notwithstanding.

[UNOwen]

I’m already dead, so Idk why you’re even mentioning me here? Bell already trs MC more than Noraa anyway, so in the extremely unlikely chance Noraa is scum, they’ve already got that covered but this is the reason I think it’s you. No one imo should be suspicious of Noraa rn and you are basically arguing that you need to get to the f4 to scroll her?

I don’t believe she’s ever scum here anyway, so you could just get her voted out and then paranoia her on shooting MC and if you’re scum, you win.

I mean I'm explaining why I wanted to survive this phase. I know I'm never going to make it through PoE to the point where I would scroll Noraa anymore, so it doesn't matter. Bell seems to be suggesting he agrees with my ordering as well, so I no longer even need to be around in the next phase to ensure the Noraa scum argument is heard if it gets that far.

All that is left is if you are right that the scum is within Pooky/Fidget/Me (and I still think you probably are), then I'm trying to convince you that if you want to end the game here you definitely won't by cursing me and probably will if you curse Pooky.

[Gloria Cleary]

Honestly, if Uno is town I want that info today because otherwise I'm not really going to be reconsidering anything. Uno=town is important info I want sooner rather than later. I don't feel that way about anyone else, even Pooky.

His push on Noraa at f4 gets him the win if he can persuade her to shoot you. I think he’s scum here and this is his plan.

[UNOwen]

See you’re the only one who’s acting really suspicious here. Neither Fidget or Pooky are trying to paranoia anyone on either Bell or Noraa.

Good point.

[MURDERCAT]

Honestly, if Uno is town I want that info today because otherwise I'm not really going to be reconsidering anything. Uno=town is important info I want sooner rather than later. I don't feel that way about anyone else, even Pooky.

His push on Noraa at f4 gets him the win if he can persuade her to shoot you. I think he’s scum here and this is his plan.

So shoot him

[Gloria Cleary]

I’m already dead, so Idk why you’re even mentioning me here? Bell already trs MC more than Noraa anyway, so in the extremely unlikely chance Noraa is scum, they’ve already got that covered but this is the reason I think it’s you. No one imo should be suspicious of Noraa rn and you are basically arguing that you need to get to the f4 to scroll her?

I don’t believe she’s ever scum here anyway, so you could just get her voted out and then paranoia her on shooting MC and if you’re scum, you win.

I mean I'm explaining why I wanted to survive this phase. I know I'm never going to make it through PoE to the point where I would scroll Noraa anymore, so it doesn't matter. Bell seems to be suggesting he agrees with my ordering as well, so I no longer even need to be around in the next phase to ensure the Noraa scum argument is heard if it gets that far.

All that is left is if you are right that the scum is within Pooky/Fidget/Me (and I still think you probably are), then I'm trying to convince you that if you want to end the game here you definitely won't by cursing me and probably will if you curse Pooky.

Bell doesn’t want Noraa dying anywhere before f2. I am not giving you the chance to paranoiaing town on who’s left from Pooky/Fidget then Noraa. If you can get both of the scrolled before you, that opens the door for you to paranoia Bell/MC on Noraa and then to paranoia her on MC. I’m not remotely paranoiaing on Noraa, so I don’t think there is even any reason to even consider this at this point.

I think this is where I shoot. Town should not be trying to disrupt the townblock and especially with my death, scum!you is the biggest threat, town!you as well.

[Noraa]

The push is bad but I do understand why he thinks that way considering uno has been in 2 games with me and both were my scum games.

[MURDERCAT]

Gloria if there is only 1 player you are SRing the choice is clear

[UNOwen]

Bell doesn’t want Noraa dying anywhere before f2. I am not giving you the chance to paranoiaing town on who’s left from Pooky/Fidget then Noraa. If you can get both of the scrolled before you, that opens the door for you to paranoia Bell/MC on Noraa and then to paranoia her on MC. I’m not remotely paranoiaing on Noraa, so I don’t think there is even any reason to even consider this at this point.

I think this is where I shoot. Town should not be trying to disrupt the townblock and especially with my death, scum!you is the biggest threat, town!you as well.

Then there is no more to say.

[UNOwen]

The push is bad but I do understand why he thinks that way considering uno has been in 2 games with me and both were my scum games.

Exactly, you can't blame me after what you pulled last game!

[Noraa]

Exactly, you can't blame me after what you pulled last game!

I dont blame you for it. I'd be sus of someone after being in 2 scum games with them.
I still think ur scummier than Fidget and ur trying to mess up the town block. Trying to push me is an insane scum gambit or just townie going crazy on paranoia soda.
I've continued to always think that in the town block, the weak links are Pooky and me. we are the easiest to drag down and out.

I get it. I became conftown a while ago but out of the town block, I interacted with the scum team most and it looks shady as hell. I've looked back at the scum's ISOs and they fucking do so much shady shit around me. You literally just go thru shelly's ISO and u just see a parrot that says "Noraa is scum. Pooky is town." on repeat.

[Gloria Cleary]

Again fair. My reads were vague and basically non-existent. I thought we were about to enter a stage with much more information than usual this early in the game due to the massive Noraa push. I like to go one step at a time. Treating Noraa as confirmed scum and then scum hunting with that in mind is alien to me. Allowing other players to get away with that is also alien to me.

why are you so defeatist, because

your partner noraa is dead as a doornail

3475 feels like fluff filling space with words

Again scum is pushing you with Noraa. Both Shelley and Zedeneck did this.

[Noraa]

In the current situation, I'm wavering on my SR on Uno but regardless he is still scummier than everyone alive.

[MURDERCAT]

End it Gloria you can do it

[UNOwen]

I still think ur scummier than Fidget and ur trying to mess up the town block. Trying to push me is an insane scum gambit or just

townie going crazy on paranoia soda

.
I've continued to always think that in the town block, the weak links are Pooky and me. we are the easiest to drag down and out.

Yeah, I realise I'm coming across as though I've just emerged from a jungle after disappearing somewhere in the first 15 pages...