PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

Although I agree Alisae has been the scummier of the two heads.

That's not what I said

haha you say sidewalk, I say pavement. that is what you said (it's a relative metric), you just framed it more positively.

[Battle Mage]

And in Xenoblade 2 he was effortlessly town and after his latest catchup posts I'm not getting that vibe at all

I agree

not a good omen when 2 of my better townreads think i'm scum.

[Double the Trouble]

I think Double the Trouble has been incredibly townie ever since being mentioned as part of the PoE elim list by Pooky

Like I expect scum!Alisae in that situation to just kinda freak out and tunnel someone else in that list and act super confident about getting a scum flip so e could brute eir way out of getting elimmed

But I feel like Alisae has kept an extremely level head and has kept sorting people as the priority which makes em more likely to be town

I think this is a bad take. What do you make of Alisae's own claim that he hasn't really been sorting, and has mostly deferred his own reads to those of Norwee/Mastina?

okay dude now ur just lieing
i deferred my read on you to norwee and mastina not every read I have relies on another player :/

[Battle Mage]

Hey N&C what makes Double Trouble a more attractive elimination over Ircher for you now?

I think they're most recent content has been p. towny, especially Norwee-head's interactions with BattleMage

I believe Battle Mage has come out of their brief 1v1 fairly townish against Double Trouble. I also feel like BM's posting feels like town flail.

I haven't really liked Double Trouble at all this game, and them 'deferring' their vote to Mastina without stating a strong read there or saying what exactly they agreed with regarding the BM case to be fairly weak and scummy. I've also commented on other things regarding them throughout this game (including them putting Solstice so low on their reads list but only explaining it as them sheeping Mastina and you) but not really in the mood to pull them up. These 'suspicions' of theirs don't seem genuine and I just fail to see how anyone can think this slot's town.

I also don't really buy them thinking I'd want to see other people vote them and 'get data' from that and just think they were distracting from a potential Ircher wagon.

yeah i basically agree with all of this. although can you go with something more flattering than "town flail" after I devote like 4 hours to catching up on this game

[Spiffeh]

Alisae has been asking a ton of questions and from my perspective it looks like e's attempting to find town and mind meld reads with them (he's done this with myself and mastina for example)

Alisae also backed off on Dunnstral, one of eir only options to push in order to not die today, after realizing myself and other players eir town reading are confidently town reading Dunny, when I'd expect scum!Alisae to continue pushing there purely to increase eir chance of survival

There's just a lot of avenues Alisae took that are the polar opposite to how I'd expect scum!Alisae to handle the situation eir in currently

[Spiffeh]

N&C are you still scum reading Ircher?

[Battle Mage]

I think Double the Trouble has been incredibly townie ever since being mentioned as part of the PoE elim list by Pooky

Like I expect scum!Alisae in that situation to just kinda freak out and tunnel someone else in that list and act super confident about getting a scum flip so e could brute eir way out of getting elimmed

But I feel like Alisae has kept an extremely level head and has kept sorting people as the priority which makes em more likely to be town

I think this is a bad take. What do you make of Alisae's own claim that he hasn't really been sorting, and has mostly deferred his own reads to those of Norwee/Mastina?

okay dude now ur just lieing
i deferred my read on you to norwee and mastina not every read I have relies on another player :/

I'm your top scumread though right? You're voting for me? But you don't care enough about my alignment to actually sort me yourself, apparently.

With the greatest respect, I don't think a defence of "well I did some sorting of a few minor scum/town-leans" holds much water in that context.

[Netflix and Chill]

Yes.

[Battle Mage]

Alisae has been asking a ton of questions and from my perspective it looks like e's attempting to find town and mind meld reads with them (he's done this with myself and mastina for example)

Alisae also backed off on Dunnstral, one of eir only options to push in order to not die today, after realizing myself and other players eir town reading are confidently town reading Dunny, when I'd expect scum!Alisae to continue pushing there purely to increase eir chance of survival

There's just a lot of avenues Alisae took that are the polar opposite to how I'd expect scum!Alisae to handle the situation eir in currently

didnt you say in your previous post you townread Alisae for not just focussing on 1 slot to elim, once Pooky made the PoE?

Now you townread him for backing off Alisae in order to ostensibly focus on 1 slot to elim (me).

I'm slightly baffled you think scum-Alisae would see that he couldn't get an elim on Dunnstral and respond to that by focussing significant energy pointless pushing a case on Dunnstral. Wouldn't that just be...bad play? Although I don't have extensive meta with him, so perhaps you can tell me if that's his usual style?

Alisae himself admitted his approach to Mastina was basically to blindly agree with everything she said, and defended this in hindsight by noting he was drunk and high. I think you can argue that's NAI, but it's hard to sell that to me as being town-indicative.

[Battle Mage]

anyway, off to bed, Pooky if you're reading this - let's chat in real time when you're around - I've got a sweet crumb for ya.

[Double the Trouble]

Alisae himself admitted his approach to Mastina was basically to blindly agree with everything she said, and defended this in hindsight by noting he was drunk and high. I think you can argue that's NAI, but it's hard to sell that to me as being town-indicative.

Ooh, "He even admitted X" is one of my favorite scum-constructions!
I said that avoiding ruffling feathers was a scumtell. Tell me more about all the feathers I'm not ruffling. Tell me more about how superficial my reads are...
You said lack of depth to reads is scummy, but in the 1 day I've been in this game I've already consumed the entire thread multiple different ways, even looked for supplemental information in other games trying to figure this out. I've pointed out posts that make me doubt the overall impressions I get of people so I can test those impressions and compare against other games.
1 day of play, and I'm already obvtown.
And yeah, once I'm satisfied that I understand this game well enough to lead the town, you'll see me get persuasive and actually explain things in such a way that others can see the game from my perspective and reach the same conclusions.
My scumgame, since Mastin asked, has always rested on the fact that sometimes I lurk as town (obligations and all), and then I kill everyone I can't just shout down and do 1v1 fights (because those are literally the easiest thing for scum to do, choosing a single target and constructing logical arguments why others should lynch them, complete with that delicious "He even admitted") until endgame. I am good at finding the path to victory. The thing I do not excel at as scum is exactly what I've spent the last day doing - the studying-storm of becoming one with the game to solve it.

[Double the Trouble]

wait no thats not it shit

[Double the Trouble]

here we go

I've noticed in my own (and others' but most of my scumtells are differences I notice between my own scum / town games) play that scum gravitate toward this phrasing more often.
I believe the reason for this is scum feel a greater need to concretely justify themselves to others whereas town know that their own righteousness will clear them eventually.
So scum go for arguments like "Behold the inconsistency or error this player made!" or better yet "they :admitted: to this scummy thing!" because that even claims their target shouldn't disapprove of them.
Sorry if I haven't fully expressed the idea, but I think it's an important one. I guess to summarize, scum want their reasoning to be ironclad and look really good; town want their reasoning to be right.

[Double the Trouble]

thats better

[Spiffeh]

Idk BM you're def not gonna convince me to elim Double Trouble over you today so I'd focus your energy elsewhere

If it makes you feel better I wish this Day wasn't completely revolved around the PoE list of four and we were free to explore and pressure other options

Like I actually had to focus more on trying to save the players I'm town reading over finding scum but I'm not bitter or anything...

[Battle Mage]

Idk BM you're def not gonna convince me to elim Double Trouble over you today so I'd focus your energy elsewhere

If it makes you feel better I wish this Day wasn't completely revolved around the PoE list of four and we were free to explore and pressure other options

Like I actually had to focus more on trying to save the players I'm town reading over finding scum but I'm not bitter or anything...

that's one of my points dude - I don't think it's likely we will necessarily end up in the PoE list of 4. And in fairness, it's not as if the day has "completely revolved around it". Like the list began 1 day ago? and we've probably got the value we were going to get from it. I don't think it's been a harmful approach.

My goal is not to convince you to elim Double Trouble but to demonstrate my perspective on them, as it contrasts with yours - given your hypothesis that my scumread on them was just a matter of convenience, there's some value in me proving that there is substance behind it. As noted, I'm not dead-set on elimming them today either, although I do believe they are a good candidate.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk BM you're def not gonna convince me to elim Double Trouble over you today so I'd focus your energy elsewhere

If it makes you feel better I wish this Day wasn't completely revolved around the PoE list of four and we were free to explore and pressure other options

Like I actually had to focus more on trying to save the players I'm town reading over finding scum but I'm not bitter or anything...

feel free to look outside the 4. Most of the scum are outside of it anyways.

[Spiffeh]

Ok that is fair

PEdit: @BattleMage

[Spiffeh]

And yeah it's mostly my fault for focusing on the list of four it's just when it was first announced literally two of my most confident town reads were the top two wagons so I felt obligated to defend them

I think my reads would be greatly benefitted by a reread but we'll see if I get around to that

[Ircher]

It's okay, the magical tree stump has narrowed the pool for us.

You shouldn't be encouraging people to ignore scumhunting amongst the rest of the player list.

Why are you reading from the first page, now?

(This was directed at Creature. Read the page for context.) This is a good question, and I would like answer as well assuming Creature hadn't already answered it.

Bell please talk to me

If I say anything about it it's ev-.

Yeah, this makes no sense. You're at this point in time "stuck" presumably in terms of getting reads this game. Okay, maybe that's a true statement, maybe it's not, but it doesn't matter. Anyway, someone tries to reach out to you to help you, and you flat out reject it claiming it's a -EV move??? How could you getting a grasp on the game hurt town's chances?

It's probably a little lazy to just write him off as town from it but in a game where I don't have many confident reads it's something

Honestly, I feel like you are trying to buddy me, but at the same time, I don't know why that would benefit scum!you. (And yes, using 4-years old meta is rather on the lazy side.)

And I feel like him establishing 'an easy posting style to hide behind' should give you more concern than it has been. And I certainly don't think the latter part outweighs the former.

(I do think your lack of meta experience with me means that your read on me is rather inaccurate. The style of posting I'm doing this game is pretty typical for me as either alignment; albeit admittedly, I'm not usually this far behind, so there tends to be a bit more real time interactions as well.)

You appear to agree with me on Bake,

That doesn't change the fact that DEB was still an easy target to focus on and also a valid target to avoid actually searching for scum.

Also, your position on Noraa and Gloria is genuinely gross.

And this is relevant how? I don't think I've even really given a read on the slot anyway, so idk what you find gross about my position on them.

VOTE: Double the Trouble
I have played with Norwegianboy in the past.
This isn't town. This is scum drowning the thread with distracting and spammy posts.

Uh, there are plenty of other players that are drowning the thread with distracting and spammy posts. Why are you singling out Double the Trouble here?

Eh, nothing has grabbed my interest yet. Typical D1 shit, I’ll Hammer who ever gets up there.

The sad thing is I've seen DEB as town play in this antitown manner before. He doesn't even have a gimmick this game as an excuse for not playing.

"Me(ircher)thinks that ydra and pichu(hoctac) are big slimebutts bc of their interactions. BUUUUUUUUUT methinks a PL on Queen Noraa is more appropriate for dis occasion"

@Noraa:

This is rather a misrepresentation of my position. Obviously, fading scum is the best outcome from today. Hence why my vote stayed on Ydrasse at the time. On the flip side though, I can see where Creature is coming at and agree with the sentiment. That doesn't necessarily mean I condone policy executing your slot, and I'll go on record and officially state that aside from possibly Dr Easy Bake (because 1) he has high scum equity 2) he's unreadable and 3) it's unlikely he'll become more readable as the game progresses), I'm not supporting any eliminations that amount to a policy launch.

PFFT. dude do you know what ur talking about

Maybe. Maybe not. But let's consider the following: suppose I don't know what I am talking about. What exactly am I gaining by giving nonsensical takes? (Because if it is truly nonsensical, no one is gonna follow it or trust it just because I said so.)

And honestly I'm here for it because I think that was a weak buddy attempt.

You're gonna have to elaborate on how that's a buddying attempt because I didn't make a comment on Noraa's alignment this game with that post. I stated something that I believe to be true.

Me thinks Creature is scummy for shading me all over ze place.

Thinking you are annoying is not shading.

Ok, please justify the Dunn read with quotes because I'm not seeing it.

@MURDERCAT

:

And the majority of the scum I'd expect to be in {Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, Not Know 15, Battle Mage, Dunnstral, Dr Easy Bake}.
There's going to be 2-3 scum in there probably.

Are we really doing this already

This isn't an observation, but Dunn's annoyance about the draft speculation seems more likely to come from town than scum. Stuff like drafts are scum's best friend because they can very easily distract an entire thread from doing actual scumhunting.

We're up to 5 posts where Bell directly interacts with a tree stump, so far, in case anyone was wondering

This qualifies. He's calling out Bell on a behavior that simply isn't helpful for town.

Okay, there's a bit less than I thought, but I still feel pretty confident that he's town.

Dunn SRs Ircher and Ircher TRs Dunn.

Huh? I'm pretty sure Dunnstral townreads me at this post. He has at no point expressed an indication that he scumreads me (up to this point in the thread.)

Too many peoples are TRing Dunn

Quantify "too many". Last I remembered, the majority of people do not have a positive read on Dunnstral at this time.

Maybe me confbiasing but methinks me right

I think you should reevaluate more objectively. Try to keep your natural tendency to OMGUS people who express a read you disagree with to a minimum.

Called me out for voting sir easy bake when Dunstral did the exact same thing.

This is true, but I believe Dunnstral did it a bit later. Also, looking at 834 again, it's a bit different because I think he's trying to get DEB to vote DEB. Regardless, I've been townreading Dunnstral most of the game whereas I've been scumreading you most of the game. It's a double standard, I know, but it does mean I give Dunnstral the benefit of the doubt here as compared to you.

Why? Because I'm an asshole to Creature or because my vote looks opportunistic on Ircher?

the latter

~mist

I agree with this take btw.

Ircher i have an important question for you
are you aware that Ydrasse and i's early 1v1 was in jest or are you taking it at face value

@Pichu:

Eh, it's kinda middle road. The first part I think I remember to be clearly in jest, but I didn't consider the whole thing to be in jest. The overall tone of it though still feels off regardless.

Well, I want to start making some headway on an actual wagon.

That's fair.

I want to do it on a slot that Pook wants us to focus on.

Stuff like this continues to be the reason I think the town treestump's suggestion was and still is a bad idea.

The reason is legit, even if it's the only reason I have.

It's also very generic.

[Ircher]

That's to the bottom of page 60.

[Double the Trouble]

Ircher can I interupt your catch up for some reads?

[Blade Dancer]

Official Vote Count 1.14

Battle Mage

(6): mastina, Creature, Toogeloo, Spiffeh, Dunnstral, Double the Trouble

Double the Trouble

(5): pichu, Ydrasse, Not Known 15, Battle Mage, Netflix and Chill

Ircher

(3): Bell, Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake

Polar Bear Express

(1): MURDERCAT

MURDERCAT

(1): Ircher

Dr Easy Bake

(1): Solstice

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to execute.

Deadline

: (expired on 2020-12-14 16:00:00)

[Polar Bear Express]

Spoiler:

Tv and ice cubes are vibing with me too well. I'm deep in that pocket.

Mr. Murderkitty, I wrote that post. Me as in me. and me as in Queen. and Queen as in Noraa.

If either BM or Double or Ircher flip red, Murder looks so crappy for trying to start a vanity here.

Me feeling intense day 1 Noraa mislim vibes and increasing levels of anger which is terrible cuz I'll blow up at this rate over one SR.

It's stupid but idc I'm getting angry cuz I've been fucking limmed day 1 way too much lately.

Imma let gloria take over for a few days.

Adios. Until I calm down but definitely before deadline.

-mereallyneedsabreakcuzmefeelslikeblowingupoveroneSR

Sorry @Noraa, I’m currently going through my own personal hell rn but I’ll try my best to do what I can. Sorry If I’ve not been a great hydra partner so far. I’m sure that will change.

[Ircher]

I provided some awhile ago. I guess I can provide a more comprehensive set.

Double the Trouble (Alisae and NorwegianboyEE) - Initially leaning scum, but I think it might just be the slot's abrasive nature, so I'm gonna town bin this slot actually. They've made some good observations.
Netflix and Chill (notscience and Brian Skies) - Town. Good takes in general.
Spiffeh - Maybe town? I'm worried about Spiffeh trying to pocket me/defending me because it will look good if I am eliminated and flip town. Nothing particularly scummy or townie that I've seen.
Creature - Not sure. I'm not super familiar with Creature's meta shift and haven't been deeply evaluating his posts. They always make me want to skim tbh.
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary) - Probably town, but has had a very bade case of OMGUS this game.
Ydrasse - Scum for reasons I've outlined earlier.
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet) - Maybe scum? There were some good observations about Tweet's tone earlier; it's a bit too formal.
pichu - Lean scum, but I may reevaluate this read at some point. I still think their early interaction with Ydrasse looked bad, but pichu looked better between the two. Has had a couple good takes since then.
Not Known 15 - No idea. Haven't seen too many posts from them. What U do know is that they're a rather serious and logical player.
Toogeloo - Not sure; slight twinge of scum maybe. Entrance was OK; hopping onto my wagon was kinda ehh.
MURDERCAT - Scum. I recently posted my thoughts on the matter.
Battle Mage - Maybe scum? I haven't read his recent posts, so it's too early for me to judge.
Bell - Lean scum. The way they pop in and out of the thread makes me think they have an ulterior motive.
Dr Easy Bake - Not sure but high scum equity. Refuses to play the game.
Dunnstral - Lean town. I gave some reasons in my last few posts.
mastina - Town. Generally bad takes from what I read, but she's definitely scumhunting and while she's efforted before as scum, it's still rather rare. I'll reevaluate when I have to.