PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Double the Trouble]

As any alignment I’m an advocate for getting D1 over with as soon as possible, valid claims could change things but generally I think the the information provided from D1’s elimination is more valuable than anything.

If there’s no good discussion surrounding the choice of wagon and why then it’s useless though.
I saw a game once where scum was quickhammered with minimal discussion. After that there was nothing to talk about and the last sxum went on to sweep the game because everyone just assumed they were town for lolvoting their buddy.

- Norwee

[Dr Easy Bake]

I’m more interested in the first posts of the following day. That’s where the real juicy info comes in.

[Dr Easy Bake]

I guarantee you I’ll catch at least one scum based off of the D2 reactions to the D1 elimination and the NK.

[Spiffeh]

Dr Easy Bake do you have any reads whatsoever that you can share?

[MURDERCAT]

I guarantee you I’ll catch at least one scum based off of the D2 reactions to the D1 elimination and the NK.

Apologies if I have my doubts

[Dr Easy Bake]

I guarantee you I’ll catch at least one scum based off of the D2 reactions to the D1 elimination and the NK.

Apologies if I have my doubts

What you are referring to was a fluke. That was my first game in many many months, I was rusty lol I won’t let you down this time HOMICIDEHYENA

[Dr Easy Bake]

Dr Easy Bake do you have any reads whatsoever that you can share?

Despite my feelings about Double they’re disgustingly obvtowning up and down the thread.
I don’t actively look for things D1 but some stuff just stands out

[Solstice]

it's interesting that Morning Tweet has exactly the opposite take as me on Ircher
don't you usually like players who go off on their own against the crowd Morning?
like why does Ircher as scum go against the "easy townreads" in pichu/Ydrasse/Polar if there's no chance he's getting an elim there anyway

[I do?]

[in any case, Ircher disagreed with the townreads far before eliminations were clear -- see the SvS theory way back when. The last time i saw the "out of left field SvS take early D1, it was from scum. And I disagree with the reads, and i saw a lot of people suspecting Ircher. so good enough for me]

[so in other words, it was before it was obvious who would be consensus town / consensus PoE]

[i wouldn't say going against the grain in of itself can really be considered inherently AI, but I think in this specific case where I think that bloc of people is really town and there's a group of people who disagree who also have some other scummy reason going for them -- it's enough for at least a scumlean]

[also -- this isn't terribly important cause i think you're reading me in good faith, but i am curious what makes you think I usually like players who do their own thing]

~Morning

[Solstice]

Yes, Mastina is calling me confscum here, in the same way she did when we were Morning Mage.

[yeah that's what i was worried about. And you're assuming her reads are all off the mark, just like that game as well -- i just don't trust you two scumreading/pushing each other much lol]

interesting here you suggest you don't agree with Ircher defending me....yet you hadn't really commented on me at all prior to this.

Can you talk me through your read here?

[i think Double was confirm biased, more or less, early while scumreading you, i didn't find the whole searching for your name ordeal scummy. i also hilariously enough am not reading mastina's posts on why you're a liar much cause I think she suffers from some kind of bias as well]

[i am pretty bad at reading you, worse than you know, and I haven't really gotten any pings in either direction. I think you could be scum in spite of what i have seen from Double/mastina, and it's also very possible im discrediting mastina falsely. If i were confident in a townread i'd oppose the wagon but I am fine with it at the moment. I prefer Ircher/Creature though]

[i think your reads are largely good in 1912 although I'm unsure on Double being scummy.]

[I see that you found Norwe's interactions with you to be bad faith. The only problem is I'm not sure that necessitates him being scum at all]

[do you have an opinion on Ircher, btw?]

~Morning

[Solstice]

I guarantee you I’ll catch at least one scum based off of the D2 reactions to the D1 elimination and the NK.

[ill hold you to it!]

[ (I see my partners point that DEB is generally low on lists but receives no pressure, and that is a fair one -- but if people approach those who go "D1 is useless" like I do, then voting him wouldn't do much anyway. so i think he would likely fail to receive pressure as either alignment. Maybe in a game with a really stagnant D1 he gets considered, but not one like this) ]

VOTE: Ircher

[Solstice]

although i dont agree, i like ircher for town for this.

[Nvm about asking on the Ircher read. I guess i can see why that is sorta towny, but I think he's being honest regardless of alignment -- what i mean is, i think he'd oppose that strategy either way. Idk. The big text exudes frustration though which I like]

I can buy Polar Express being scum this game.

1845 should be all the evidence you guys need

You know what? I think I want Double the Trouble dead today.
1) BM softed pr. theres a big possibility he'll be cleared/guiltied overnight and we'll be set and fine tomorrow without the risk of mislimmed a pr day 1. There really is no rush and if he's softing pr, we shouldn't be risking mislimming a pr. The activity argument is kind of damning but I've been criticized of not posting enough in town games before so idk how much weight I wanna put in it. I believe Mastina is passionate and believes in this read but I am not that convinced and I think theres plenty of time to sort this slot and maybe his night action can clear him, etc.
2) Double looks terrible. Each head has thrown shade and then the moment someone criticizes, the other heads like "eyyooo I don't agree with it so alls good"
3) Ircher wagon is dying and he is STILL one of my main SRs
4) Dunn is not happening today and
hold up I gtg.

[that's an extraordinarily bad post if BM scum. "You know what?" reads kinda fake]

[Although.. i do struggle to see what the incentive for scum!Noraa is to defend scum!BM actually. Would be a fun whiteknighting play I guess, free cops being distracted or extra miselimination]

[i guess I find it odd Polar wants Double Trouble so vehemently when Dunn//Ircher are their first picks. hmph]

I'm getting shivers from 1845

VOTE: Polar Bear Express

[I don't even blame you. something to think about]

~Morning

[MURDERCAT]

I'm not going to derail whatever it is that Pooky is doing but say the word and I'll show why 1845 makes Noraa scum here.

[Solstice]

Spoiler:

To reiterate:
Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread, how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1?
To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:

Like, this is just silly.

Just because he said he wasn't following up previously doesn't mean he can't at least follow along with current events now.

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

And this is just twisting things to fit her case.

Either way, if he's never done it before, then it's not necessarily alignment indicative.

Is there anything you think Battle Mage has done that's town indicative?

[Lul these two posts sum up my thoughts on BM and the case against him. I had a feeling the reasons for him being scum would be like that. but I also don't really want to call him town]

[At this rate, I'm going to continue to null/SL right up until he's abt to be eliminated, where he'll do something emotional or otherwise towny, ill change my mind, then he'll die. Could flip town or scum in that scenario though, i've had it go either way. consider this my prediction for the future]

[pedit: i know it sounds stupid and sheepy but that post by Noraabear is legitimately odd and out of place to me]

[I think I should make my homework getting a real read on BM/Ircher and probably Double.]

~Morning

[pichu]

liking solstice more
i like that self-prediction on what'll happen with BM

[in any case, Ircher disagreed with the townreads far before eliminations were clear -- see the SvS theory way back when. The last time i saw the "out of left field SvS take early D1, it was from scum. And I disagree with the reads, and i saw a lot of people suspecting Ircher. so good enough for me]

[so in other words, it was before it was obvious who would be consensus town / consensus PoE]

[i wouldn't say going against the grain in of itself can really be considered inherently AI, but I think in this specific case where I think that bloc of people is really town and there's a group of people who disagree who also have some other scummy reason going for them -- it's enough for at least a scumlean]

[also -- this isn't terribly important cause i think you're reading me in good faith, but i am curious what makes you think I usually like players who do their own thing]

~Morning

this is fair
to answer your question: it reminded me of you townreading Krazy for his wildly anti-consensus Tanner push
and i think you've done it before then as well, i have that feeling in my mind but can't think of the specifics

[pichu]

i feel disillusioned on my read on double trouble due to recent ali effort and reads but idk

[Battle Mage]

also i believe im at -2, so when is my exit interview? haha

will respond to other stuff after work

How about now.
I’d like to see a claim tbh. Alisae tells me you’re very vocal about supposedly softing a claim.

- Norwee

I don't think there's any value in claiming publically - I've crumbed my role to Pooky, and he makes the final call. It's a tough spot for him, to overturn a town majority on Day 1 but that's par for the course when you use a narrower elim pool. Big treestump needs to make a big executive decision.

I think it's really dumb for any town to elim me Day 1 when I'm so easy to read, and like actually trying and playing more than most. Although this town (or a majority of it) aren't able to read me so well perhaps, which doesn't bode well. I'd attribute that largely to a blindspot for Mastina and Flavor pushing his team to elim me Day 1 because he knows well that I can obvtown and am very hard to mis-elim. So advice for tomorrow, if I bite the dust today, would be to look first at those who were shading/voting me.

The arguments against me basically suck, but they come from players who are respected, so what else can I say?

[Battle Mage]

Spoiler:

To reiterate:
Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread, how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1?
To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:

Like, this is just silly.

Just because he said he wasn't following up previously doesn't mean he can't at least follow along with current events now.

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

And this is just twisting things to fit her case.

Either way, if he's never done it before, then it's not necessarily alignment indicative.

Is there anything you think Battle Mage has done that's town indicative?

[Lul these two posts sum up my thoughts on BM and the case against him. I had a feeling the reasons for him being scum would be like that. but I also don't really want to call him town]

[At this rate, I'm going to continue to null/SL right up until he's abt to be eliminated, where he'll do something emotional or otherwise towny, ill change my mind, then he'll die. Could flip town or scum in that scenario though, i've had it go either way. consider this my prediction for the future]

[pedit: i know it sounds stupid and sheepy but that post by Noraabear is legitimately odd and out of place to me]

[I think I should make my homework getting a real read on BM/Ircher and probably Double.]

~Morning

Translation: MorningTweet acknowledges the case against me is non-existent.

And MorningTweet is smart.

Can we listen to MorningTweet?

[Battle Mage]

I'm concerned I'm just gonna get elimmed by some stupid hammer before Pooky is even here to talk to me.

[Battle Mage]

although i dont agree, i like ircher for town for this.

[Nvm about asking on the Ircher read. I guess i can see why that is sorta towny, but I think he's being honest regardless of alignment -- what i mean is, i think he'd oppose that strategy either way. Idk. The big text exudes frustration though which I like]

I'm pissed off I might be mis-elimmed for the first time in like 30 games based on Mastina doing her gimmick and tunnelling me with logically barren super-posts.

I can buy Polar Express being scum this game.

1845 should be all the evidence you guys need

You know what? I think I want Double the Trouble dead today.
1) BM softed pr. theres a big possibility he'll be cleared/guiltied overnight and we'll be set and fine tomorrow without the risk of mislimmed a pr day 1. There really is no rush and if he's softing pr, we shouldn't be risking mislimming a pr. The activity argument is kind of damning but I've been criticized of not posting enough in town games before so idk how much weight I wanna put in it. I believe Mastina is passionate and believes in this read but I am not that convinced and I think theres plenty of time to sort this slot and maybe his night action can clear him, etc.
2) Double looks terrible. Each head has thrown shade and then the moment someone criticizes, the other heads like "eyyooo I don't agree with it so alls good"
3) Ircher wagon is dying and he is STILL one of my main SRs
4) Dunn is not happening today and
hold up I gtg.

[that's an extraordinarily bad post if BM scum. "You know what?" reads kinda fake]

[Although.. i do struggle to see what the incentive for scum!Noraa is to defend scum!BM actually. Would be a fun whiteknighting play I guess, free cops being distracted or extra miselimination]

Irrelevant when I flip town. So what does it mean in a world where I'm town, which you seem to think is possible?

[Battle Mage]

I provided some awhile ago. I guess I can provide a more comprehensive set.

Double the Trouble (Alisae and NorwegianboyEE) - Initially leaning scum, but I think it might just be the slot's abrasive nature, so I'm gonna town bin this slot actually. They've made some good observations.
Netflix and Chill (notscience and Brian Skies) - Town. Good takes in general.
Spiffeh - Maybe town? I'm worried about Spiffeh trying to pocket me/defending me because it will look good if I am eliminated and flip town. Nothing particularly scummy or townie that I've seen.
Creature - Not sure. I'm not super familiar with Creature's meta shift and haven't been deeply evaluating his posts. They always make me want to skim tbh.
Polar Bear Express (Noraa and Gloria Cleary) - Probably town, but has had a very bade case of OMGUS this game.
Ydrasse - Scum for reasons I've outlined earlier.
Solstice (Mistyx and Morning Tweet) - Maybe scum? There were some good observations about Tweet's tone earlier; it's a bit too formal.
pichu - Lean scum, but I may reevaluate this read at some point. I still think their early interaction with Ydrasse looked bad, but pichu looked better between the two. Has had a couple good takes since then.
Not Known 15 - No idea. Haven't seen too many posts from them. What U do know is that they're a rather serious and logical player.
Toogeloo - Not sure; slight twinge of scum maybe. Entrance was OK; hopping onto my wagon was kinda ehh.
MURDERCAT - Scum. I recently posted my thoughts on the matter.
Battle Mage - Maybe scum? I haven't read his recent posts, so it's too early for me to judge.
Bell - Lean scum. The way they pop in and out of the thread makes me think they have an ulterior motive.
Dr Easy Bake - Not sure but high scum equity. Refuses to play the game.
Dunnstral - Lean town. I gave some reasons in my last few posts.
mastina - Town. Generally bad takes from what I read, but she's definitely scumhunting and while she's efforted before as scum, it's still rather rare. I'll reevaluate when I have to.

surprised you have me as "maybe scum", when the reasons for my wagon generally go back to "I sheep mastina" and you recognise her takes are bad. You haven't given a reason for that read which I can recall as yet.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: Battle Mage

iirc, didn't NC set out why the case against me sucks and was leaning town on me previously? this came a bit out of nowhere

[Battle Mage]

ah I guess it's probably just hydra disagreement. Can we please have the smart head back?

also better VOTE: double the trouble as I owe Ircher one.

This post is indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative.

None of the posts in that range mentioned Pooky's pool of four, and yet somehow Battle Mage knows to vote Double the Trouble, one of the names in that pool of four, over Ircher, another name in the pool of four?

I call bullshit.

Battle Mage has read most of the thread already. Maybe genuinely not all of it, but he knows far, far more than he is pretending he knows.

This stood out to me in Mastina's case against Battle Mage. I don't really care that much about the other stuff she mentioned, but I don't really understand why Battle Mage would vote here or mention Ircher unless he did have some prior knowledge of the lynchpool. And I didn't find anything in his iso, or the immediately surrounding pages to indicate him just coming across it.

Yes, the vote was in response to Murdercat quoting a VoteCount, but it still doesn't explain why he'd feel the need to mention Ircher with his Double the Trouble vote (and just those two names).

I wouldn't say I'm confident in it or anything, I just feel like some of my reads need reassessment and that Mastina is probably onto something here.

So as I recall:

I looked at votecount
I saw Ircher and Double Trouble had the 2 biggest wagons
I voted DT as a placeholder because Ircher was reasonable about my VLA last weekend

I don't think I had any idea about the elim pool at that stage because I hadn't read up. You can see in my ISO when I figured it out, as I talked about being shocked at being in it!

[Battle Mage]

ah I think I read backwards somehow. Maybe NC hydra is ok.

[Creature]

This midnight I'll try to get caught up

[Battle Mage]

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

admittedly I think I forgot I wrote 734 and 743 isn't an amazing response to that.

why use the search function when u have no reason to?
doesn't make sense.

Given the rest of the post, feels more scum aligned than town aligned tbh

I didnt have much time to do anything on VLA but I also wanted to post SOMETHING. sue me like, in no universe is using the search function and openly stating as such, a scumtell.

I know that he's softing a power role, but I know for a fact that the way he's doing so is his scum meta because town-BM does not soft in that way whereas scum-BM does.

this is what convinced me at the time tho it is mostly just barking.

I don't follow this. You were mostly convinced because mastina said I did something which is in my scum meta? When:

A. Your own hydra has more completed games with me than Mastina and a better framework for judging my meta.
B. Mastina has 2 completed games with me, and in at least 1 of them I didn't 'soft' at all - I accidentally and embarrassingly hard-claimed for no reason.

In other words, it's simply Mastina making stuff up to suit her own tunnel, and you blindly sheeping it, despite knowing better.