Newbie 2043: Cherfnul - Game Over

[Rockhopper]

Where I'm from, artofproblemsolving.com, we use RQS since our profiles do not reveal gender and specific questions like that. Here are some questions I'd like to ask everyone.

1. Is this your first game or do you have past games? Can you link me your best scum and town games if you do have past games? In other words, what games do you want me to metadive you?
This is my first forum mafia game, I have experience with live chat mafia but not forum.
2. Favorite role? Favorite alignment?
favorite alignment is town, preferably a clear power role so i don't have to worry about coming off as scummy.
3. How good are you at scumhunting (self-evaluation), from 1-10?
probably like a 4. i am not good at mafia in general.

You think I'm scum for this one post?

[ben dover123]

So.. That's all. We wait now.

and we wait, and we wait for Lunar to make his final statement.

[ben dover123]

I think you're biased on Rock, but I can see why you think he's town for acting like that in hammer range.

If Lunar flips red I think Rock's townstock gets boosted too.

[clidd]

I feel that the Mars/Rock's slot is probably scum.

I have no evidence, but I think Mars was from epicmafia and was excited to play on the forum we are in. Considering her last post in the current game (a certain nervousness) and the noticeable apathy/inactivity, it's possible that she was suffering from the cognitive burden of being scum.

Well, it's an assumption, but adding that to the current impression I have of Rock, it is liable to scumread. But I will wait for some disclosure of Rock reads, maybe it will change my perception in relation to that.

Here.

^

[clidd]

I think you're biased on Rock, but I can see why you think he's town for acting like that in hammer range.

If Lunar flips red I think Rock's townstock gets boosted too.

Hum.

Let's see the flip first.

[ben dover123]

I think you're biased on Rock, but I can see why you think he's town for acting like that in hammer range.

If Lunar flips red I think Rock's townstock gets boosted too.

Hum.

Let's see the flip first.

Can I hammer now? Has everyone put in their last thoughts?

GtH solve: {Lunar, Chumbo}

[ben dover123]

tbh this wagon feels a little wacky. I want to analyze it D2 for sure.

[clidd]

The right play would be to wait.

But I, Clidd, would say "hammer".

[clidd]

So you should wait.

[ben dover123]

The right play would be to wait.

But I, Clidd, would say "hammer".

Yeah, I thought so. I need Lunar to address the hammer, if I am correct.

[Lunar Martian]

Reason: The game has become full of chaos.Cop voting for doc.I trust Ben and Clidd(more).So I decide to join their wagon.

None of that is reason why you think I'm scum.

[Rockhopper]

I feel that the Mars/Rock's slot is probably scum.

I have no evidence, but I think Mars was from epicmafia and was excited to play on the forum we are in. Considering her last post in the current game (a certain nervousness) and the noticeable apathy/inactivity, it's possible that she was suffering from the cognitive burden of being scum.

Well, it's an assumption, but adding that to the current impression I have of Rock, it is liable to scumread. But I will wait for some disclosure of Rock reads, maybe it will change my perception in relation to that.

Here.

^

Bad take

[ben dover123]

Reason: The game has become full of chaos.Cop voting for doc.I trust Ben and Clidd(more).So I decide to join their wagon.

None of that is reason why you think I'm scum.

Oh, hey, you are E-1 with intent to hammer. You should probably address that...

[Lunar Martian]

OK let me address it. This is a really dumb wagon. The case on me is pathetic, there's nothing for me to even defend. Ben you say my read on you changed a lot, but when you criticized me for that you even admitted that you had been scummy. There's one scum on my wagon and 4 dumb townies. Lone is almost certainly scum here.

[Lunar Martian]

My solve right now would be Lone and BM.

[ben dover123]

OK let me address it. This is a really dumb wagon. The case on me is pathetic, there's nothing for me to even defend. Ben you say my read on you changed a lot, but when you criticized me for that you even admitted that you had been scummy. There's one scum on my wagon and 4 dumb townies. Lone is almost certainly scum here.

What? When was that? I gotta reread.

Lone is not scum. Have you seen his recent posts?

Pedit: :thonk: what is your reason for BM again?

[ben dover123]

Spoiler: General Macro Reads

ben dover123

Trendall

LoneMarkhor

Rockhopper

Chumbo

Battle Mage

clidd

Lunar Martian

These macro reads were formed by posts. clidd may be the uncc'ed doctor, but his posts mostly ping openwolfy, so in the macro readlist clidd is overall scummy.

Trendall: Confirmed town.
LoneMarkhor: Just newbie town, no more no less.
Rockhopper: Was relatively scummy in his posts, but the defeatedness is just not a thing coming from scum Rock.
Chumbo: Was a nice TR before, but he has sunk down to only a TL now. His proactiveness about solving decreased massively but I have to complete his ISO to see.
BM: Is technically a null with so little posts and little reactions, but his slot is just >randtown with all the +towncred he is getting.
clidd: Overall his posts are scummy, backtracking, bizarre explanations, but he is a much more complicated case and he goes beyond macro reads, so I don't think this macro read will be very helpful in determining his alignment.
Lunar Martian: Jumble was scummy, and then now I am getting a sense of disconnected reads from Lunar, switching from one person to another quickly. I completed Lunar's ISO and he is backtracking on my read multiple times, already this is the 3rd time he has gone back and forth between me being scum and me being town. That just feels like generally indecisive scum.

Wait Lunar, you talking about this? This isn't me admitting I was scummy, your read just changed like 3 times and I feel a massive disconnection between you and your reads. You thought I was scummy, then you thought I was town, and then you went back to scummy and now you are saying "ben is town" again.

[Lunar Martian]

OK let me address it. This is a really dumb wagon. The case on me is pathetic, there's nothing for me to even defend. Ben you say my read on you changed a lot, but when you criticized me for that you even admitted that you had been scummy. There's one scum on my wagon and 4 dumb townies. Lone is almost certainly scum here.

What? When was that? I gotta reread.

Lone is not scum. Have you seen his recent posts?

Pedit: :thonk: what is your reason for BM again?

BM isn't posting after repeatedly promising to be active. When BM gets called out he shows up and posts just enough that everyone gives him a pass. Also Lone's "welp" post is super scummy. It's scum trying to look like a townie who feels bad. Just kill me, then tomorrow when the cop has no result and the doctor is dead and you continue to self destruct with terrible reads I'll be laughing in the graveyard. Ben you are way overconfident and it seems like your reads are quite bad. No one is re-evaluating. Look at Lone's justification for voting me (spoiler alert: there's no justification other than straight up naked opportunism because I'm a person that people don't townread and other people are willing to vote me). Even after being repeatedly prodded for reasoning why I'm scum Lone hasn't provided any.

The rest of you have really poor reasoning to think I'm scum, but at least there is some.

[ben dover123]

OK let me address it. This is a really dumb wagon. The case on me is pathetic, there's nothing for me to even defend. Ben you say my read on you changed a lot, but when you criticized me for that you even admitted that you had been scummy. There's one scum on my wagon and 4 dumb townies. Lone is almost certainly scum here.

What? When was that? I gotta reread.

Lone is not scum. Have you seen his recent posts?

Pedit: :thonk: what is your reason for BM again?

BM isn't posting after repeatedly promising to be active. When BM gets called out he shows up and posts just enough that everyone gives him a pass. Also Lone's "welp" post is super scummy. It's scum trying to look like a townie who feels bad. Just kill me, then tomorrow when the cop has no result and the doctor is dead and you continue to self destruct with terrible reads I'll be laughing in the graveyard. Ben you are way overconfident and it seems like your reads are quite bad. No one is re-evaluating. Look at Lone's justification for voting me (spoiler alert: there's no justification other than straight up naked opportunism because I'm a person that people don't townread and other people are willing to vote me). Even after being repeatedly prodded for reasoning why I'm scum Lone hasn't provided any.

The rest of you have really poor reasoning to think I'm scum, but at least there is some.

...
Being salty about your wagon won't do anything about it. Just saying.
Can you explain how my reads are quite bad?
Can you try looking for Lone as a genuine newbie town?

[Lunar Martian]

Spoiler: General Macro Reads

ben dover123

Trendall

LoneMarkhor

Rockhopper

Chumbo

Battle Mage

clidd

Lunar Martian

These macro reads were formed by posts. clidd may be the uncc'ed doctor, but his posts mostly ping openwolfy, so in the macro readlist clidd is overall scummy.

Trendall: Confirmed town.
LoneMarkhor: Just newbie town, no more no less.
Rockhopper: Was relatively scummy in his posts, but the defeatedness is just not a thing coming from scum Rock.
Chumbo: Was a nice TR before, but he has sunk down to only a TL now. His proactiveness about solving decreased massively but I have to complete his ISO to see.
BM: Is technically a null with so little posts and little reactions, but his slot is just >randtown with all the +towncred he is getting.
clidd: Overall his posts are scummy, backtracking, bizarre explanations, but he is a much more complicated case and he goes beyond macro reads, so I don't think this macro read will be very helpful in determining his alignment.
Lunar Martian: Jumble was scummy, and then now I am getting a sense of disconnected reads from Lunar, switching from one person to another quickly. I completed Lunar's ISO and he is backtracking on my read multiple times, already this is the 3rd time he has gone back and forth between me being scum and me being town. That just feels like generally indecisive scum.

Wait Lunar, you talking about this? This isn't me admitting I was scummy, your read just changed like 3 times and I feel a massive disconnection between you and your reads. You thought I was scummy, then you thought I was town, and then you went back to scummy and now you are saying "ben is town" again.

It was the first time you mentioned it. Yesterday or the day before. You said you didn't like my read changing on you, but also admitted that you had made some very questionable posts. Me re-evaluating isn't a scumtell. It's me being a townie and being unsure of my reads. As scum why would I change my reads like that? It would be so much easier to just pick a read and stick with it, or maybe change it once opportunistically.

And rather than assume me changing my mind is scummy you should ask me questions to try to uncover my true intentions. This is garbage play from you, tbh.

[Lunar Martian]

OK let me address it. This is a really dumb wagon. The case on me is pathetic, there's nothing for me to even defend. Ben you say my read on you changed a lot, but when you criticized me for that you even admitted that you had been scummy. There's one scum on my wagon and 4 dumb townies. Lone is almost certainly scum here.

What? When was that? I gotta reread.

Lone is not scum. Have you seen his recent posts?

Pedit: :thonk: what is your reason for BM again?

BM isn't posting after repeatedly promising to be active. When BM gets called out he shows up and posts just enough that everyone gives him a pass. Also Lone's "welp" post is super scummy. It's scum trying to look like a townie who feels bad. Just kill me, then tomorrow when the cop has no result and the doctor is dead and you continue to self destruct with terrible reads I'll be laughing in the graveyard. Ben you are way overconfident and it seems like your reads are quite bad. No one is re-evaluating. Look at Lone's justification for voting me (spoiler alert: there's no justification other than straight up naked opportunism because I'm a person that people don't townread and other people are willing to vote me). Even after being repeatedly prodded for reasoning why I'm scum Lone hasn't provided any.

The rest of you have really poor reasoning to think I'm scum, but at least there is some.

...
Being salty about your wagon won't do anything about it. Just saying.
Can you explain how my reads are quite bad?
Can you try looking for Lone as a genuine newbie town?

Well the main reason your reads are trash is that you think I'm scum. I know that's wrong. The rest of your reads start with the assumption that I'm scum and then you look for who my partners could be. That's really poor reasoning and based on a faulty premise.

I'm not salty that there's a wagon on me. I'm salty that the wagon on me is for shit reasons and no one is reconsidering. If I go down that's OK, but I'm gonna point out what fools you are while I still can.

If Lone is newb town that means that you're almost certainly scum.

[Rockhopper]

The rest of you have really poor reasoning to think I'm scum, but at least there is some.

Dude. You literally sheeped clidd about Lone being scum for having mafia goon as his favourite role.
I can't see how you would choose that over BM as town.

How is it dumb to think you're scum keeping your options open?

[ben dover123]

Ah, I screwed it up. Here is a much better formatted version:

Here is Lunar's ISO btw clidd.

Spoiler: Lunar ISO

Hello! I had some issues with permissions and couldn't post. I haven't read the whole thread yet, but to answer Mr. Dover, this is my first game so I'm not really sure about any of that. I played a few games of irl mafia with some friends, but haven't played online so I'm really not sure what to expect. So far the people I'm most suspicious of are clidd who seems a bit off and artificial, and ben dover who looks like he's trying to look like hes being helpful without doing much to actually help or solve. On this page for example, Ben attacks Lavar for voting for Rockhopper, while he himself is also voting for Rockhopper and is pushing for more votes there.

VOTE: ben dover123

Hello! I had some issues with permissions and couldn't post. I haven't read the whole thread yet, but to answer Mr. Dover, this is my first game so I'm not really sure about any of that. I played a few games of irl mafia with some friends, but haven't played online so I'm really not sure what to expect. So far the people I'm most suspicious of are clidd who seems a bit off and artificial, and ben dover who looks like he's trying to look like hes being helpful without doing much to actually help or solve. On this page for example, Ben attacks Lavar for voting for Rockhopper, while he himself is also voting for Rockhopper and is pushing for more votes there.

VOTE: ben dover123

Mmmm...You lack context, my friend. The thing I am really suspicious of is that Lavar puts Rockhopper at E-1, with intent to hammer, but he has no good reason to do so. That is a bad look from Lavar, considering that the vc was made hours ago. Plus, the Rock wagon popped up way faster than I expected, which is surprising and scary at the same time.

E-1 means one vote away from death right? Sorry I spent some time reading the wiki but I think it will take me some time to adjust to and internalize the jargon on this site. Shouldn't you agree that Lavar has reason to put Rockhopper to E-1, since you're voting there yourself? You could always unvote if you're that concerned. Your concern rings as false, more an attempt to attack someone on the wagon to make them look bad if Rockhopper is town than an attempt to show genuine concern.

I really don't think ben is scum. I did before, but with his meta analysis and other newer posts, it doesn't seem like he is anymore. I don't see scum intentions.

i agree with this

I'm not a fan of how Lunar hard pushed me for his first two posts and then he all of a sudden declares I am town.

Also he's never getting eliminated is he so he doesn't even has to sacrifice himself at all necessarily.

I really dislike this push from trendall on the claimed doctor. The doctor claim will be tested at night, and trendall should know better as an SE.
VOTE: trendall

This is also a awkward vote plus reasoning. With context it should be known that Trendall was hard pushing clidd for scummy behavior before his claim. Maybe this is just lack of context from Lunar though.

Posts #640, #647, #663, and #713 are progression to voting clidd because clidd is lying.

VOTE: Ben Dover

That vote on clidd was terrible. Almost as bad as both the power roles claiming for no reason.

This backtrack on his townread isn't that great.

My defense for this is that my mental state went boom boom for a couple of pages there. It was so damn chaotic I had no idea what was going on for a few minutes. Clidd starting backtracking on his reads, then the tide turned and Lavar was doing scummy stuff.

I see rock's posts as townie. I think it's a bit melodramatic for clidd to get so frustrated and claim, and for rock to say "just kill me"... I don't think either of them was the most voted person at the time they did that.

Wait, wasn't this already noted by Trendall?

Like Lunar Martian, I get that that was scummy as shit from ben but you're not going to get four other people to vote for him in time.

There are four days left right? That's plenty of time. stop being so defeatist.

Nah clidd's my final vote today.

That said, this attitude is awful and does actually make it hard to kill anyone. Can people get over themselves and try to find scum rather than get themselves killed because they feel bad that they made a mistake?

This is a nitpicky coming from Lunar. The tone sounds like Lunar is ordering Trendall to do this and that.

Listen, I told him strictly to stop spamming one liners and give us some ideas on how to approach, but he kept on fluffposting and has been literally been bystanding this entire implosion.

Unfortunately for you, there's no rule saying we have to do what you say.

This is kind of harsh coming from Lunar. I think he has turned back on his original townread by the tone of this post.

Oh this.

More specifically: "My defense for this is that my mental state went boom boom for a couple of pages there. It was so damn chaotic I had no idea what was going on for a few minutes. Clidd starting backtracking on his reads, then the tide turned and Lavar was doing scummy stuff."

This isn't me accepting that I was scummy? It's just that for like 5 pages people were spamposting and I had no idea what was going on.

It was the first time you mentioned it. Yesterday or the day before. You said you didn't like my read changing on you, but also admitted that you had made some very questionable posts. Me re-evaluating isn't a scumtell. It's me being a townie and being unsure of my reads. As scum why would I change my reads like that? It would be so much easier to just pick a read and stick with it, or maybe change it once opportunistically.

And rather than assume me changing my mind is scummy you should ask me questions to try to uncover my true intentions. This is garbage play from you, tbh.

You know, the problem with newbie scum is that they are usually indecisive since if they choose to tunnel into a miselim, then what will town think once the miselim flips? That is the underlining thought process of newbie scum, and since you are so indecisive about your read on me, I suspect you are scared trying to chase my miselim.

Again, the salty behavior isn't doing you any justice. Changing your mind multiple times in one day is considered very indecisive and is considered a newbie scumtell. It's kind of like you are hedging on your elimination for the day and you are indecisive about how town will react once you chase the wrong elimination very hard.

Pedit: smh. Can you just have a straight attitude for a second? If you really think that all of these reasons are s***, then defend them yourself and don't ask everyone to "reconsider" all of their reasons. You are capable of that, I presume?

[ben dover123]

The rest of you have really poor reasoning to think I'm scum, but at least there is some.

Dude. You literally sheeped clidd about Lone being scum for having mafia goon as his favourite role.
I can't see how you would choose that over BM as town.

How is it dumb to think you're scum keeping your options open?

Thanks Rock, this was my point but it was much better worded.

The attitude of "Oh town has absolute s*** reasons but I'm not going to fix them myself" is not pro-town, you know.

[Lunar Martian]

Ah, I screwed it up. Here is a much better formatted version:

Here is Lunar's ISO btw clidd.

Spoiler: Lunar ISO

Hello! I had some issues with permissions and couldn't post. I haven't read the whole thread yet, but to answer Mr. Dover, this is my first game so I'm not really sure about any of that. I played a few games of irl mafia with some friends, but haven't played online so I'm really not sure what to expect. So far the people I'm most suspicious of are clidd who seems a bit off and artificial, and ben dover who looks like he's trying to look like hes being helpful without doing much to actually help or solve. On this page for example, Ben attacks Lavar for voting for Rockhopper, while he himself is also voting for Rockhopper and is pushing for more votes there.

VOTE: ben dover123

Hello! I had some issues with permissions and couldn't post. I haven't read the whole thread yet, but to answer Mr. Dover, this is my first game so I'm not really sure about any of that. I played a few games of irl mafia with some friends, but haven't played online so I'm really not sure what to expect. So far the people I'm most suspicious of are clidd who seems a bit off and artificial, and ben dover who looks like he's trying to look like hes being helpful without doing much to actually help or solve. On this page for example, Ben attacks Lavar for voting for Rockhopper, while he himself is also voting for Rockhopper and is pushing for more votes there.

VOTE: ben dover123

Mmmm...You lack context, my friend. The thing I am really suspicious of is that Lavar puts Rockhopper at E-1, with intent to hammer, but he has no good reason to do so. That is a bad look from Lavar, considering that the vc was made hours ago. Plus, the Rock wagon popped up way faster than I expected, which is surprising and scary at the same time.

E-1 means one vote away from death right? Sorry I spent some time reading the wiki but I think it will take me some time to adjust to and internalize the jargon on this site. Shouldn't you agree that Lavar has reason to put Rockhopper to E-1, since you're voting there yourself? You could always unvote if you're that concerned. Your concern rings as false, more an attempt to attack someone on the wagon to make them look bad if Rockhopper is town than an attempt to show genuine concern.

I really don't think ben is scum. I did before, but with his meta analysis and other newer posts, it doesn't seem like he is anymore. I don't see scum intentions.

i agree with this

I'm not a fan of how Lunar hard pushed me for his first two posts and then he all of a sudden declares I am town.

Also he's never getting eliminated is he so he doesn't even has to sacrifice himself at all necessarily.

I really dislike this push from trendall on the claimed doctor. The doctor claim will be tested at night, and trendall should know better as an SE.
VOTE: trendall

This is also a awkward vote plus reasoning. With context it should be known that Trendall was hard pushing clidd for scummy behavior before his claim. Maybe this is just lack of context from Lunar though.

Posts #640, #647, #663, and #713 are progression to voting clidd because clidd is lying.

VOTE: Ben Dover

That vote on clidd was terrible. Almost as bad as both the power roles claiming for no reason.

This backtrack on his townread isn't that great.

My defense for this is that my mental state went boom boom for a couple of pages there. It was so damn chaotic I had no idea what was going on for a few minutes. Clidd starting backtracking on his reads, then the tide turned and Lavar was doing scummy stuff.

I see rock's posts as townie. I think it's a bit melodramatic for clidd to get so frustrated and claim, and for rock to say "just kill me"... I don't think either of them was the most voted person at the time they did that.

Wait, wasn't this already noted by Trendall?

Like Lunar Martian, I get that that was scummy as shit from ben but you're not going to get four other people to vote for him in time.

There are four days left right? That's plenty of time. stop being so defeatist.

Nah clidd's my final vote today.

That said, this attitude is awful and does actually make it hard to kill anyone. Can people get over themselves and try to find scum rather than get themselves killed because they feel bad that they made a mistake?

This is a nitpicky coming from Lunar. The tone sounds like Lunar is ordering Trendall to do this and that.

Listen, I told him strictly to stop spamming one liners and give us some ideas on how to approach, but he kept on fluffposting and has been literally been bystanding this entire implosion.

Unfortunately for you, there's no rule saying we have to do what you say.

This is kind of harsh coming from Lunar. I think he has turned back on his original townread by the tone of this post.

Oh this.

More specifically: "My defense for this is that my mental state went boom boom for a couple of pages there. It was so damn chaotic I had no idea what was going on for a few minutes. Clidd starting backtracking on his reads, then the tide turned and Lavar was doing scummy stuff."

This isn't me accepting that I was scummy? It's just that for like 5 pages people were spamposting and I had no idea what was going on.

It was the first time you mentioned it. Yesterday or the day before. You said you didn't like my read changing on you, but also admitted that you had made some very questionable posts. Me re-evaluating isn't a scumtell. It's me being a townie and being unsure of my reads. As scum why would I change my reads like that? It would be so much easier to just pick a read and stick with it, or maybe change it once opportunistically.

And rather than assume me changing my mind is scummy you should ask me questions to try to uncover my true intentions. This is garbage play from you, tbh.

You know, the problem with newbie scum is that they are usually indecisive since if they choose to tunnel into a miselim, then what will town think once the miselim flips? That is the underlining thought process of newbie scum, and since you are so indecisive about your read on me, I suspect you are scared trying to chase my miselim.

Again, the salty behavior isn't doing you any justice. Changing your mind multiple times in one day is considered very indecisive and is considered a newbie scumtell. It's kind of like you are hedging on your elimination for the day and you are indecisive about how town will react once you chase the wrong elimination very hard.

Pedit: smh. Can you just have a straight attitude for a second? If you really think that all of these reasons are s***, then defend them yourself and don't ask everyone to "reconsider" all of their reasons. You are capable of that, I presume?

I did defend myself. I defended myself against every point you've made. Actually, you've really only made one point. You defending yourself for "your brain going boom" suggests that because your brain went boom you made some posts that you disagree with in retrospect. If you stand by those posts then I want to go back and pressure you for them, but it seemed like you were retracting them.

Where is the evidence that I'm trying to keep my options open? I've been pretty transparent with my reads.

To everyone who thinks I'm scum: please post your case so I can engage with it.