In post 830, mastina wrote:I believe it.
VOTE: Battle Mage.
For the record, if I had to go for a coherent team comp I'd guess something like BM-Spiffeh (deny town + strong scum + willingness to gambit) with one comfort pick (Polar Bear Express, Dr Easy Bake, maybe-Ircher, maybe-MURDERCAT), and then one more wildcard pick that he's not so confident on but which he thinks helps the team (Solstice, maybe-MURDERCAT, NotKnown15, Creature, maybe-Ircher).
But in terms of reads I admit that expectation isn't quite lining up with the strength of reads since Spiffeh's the closest to a townread and both Ircher/Creature being scum would mean a lot of players I see scum stuff in are not actually scum.
(Basically, read strength isn't equal to team likelihood, the two are different metrics to use that are guessing different things.)
[This post and all the ones involving BM before are FL team speculation. I actually agree, BM is a good, strong pick for him to make.]
In post 927, mastina wrote:Because while I believe that he is genuinely V/LA on weekends, I do not believe that his V/LA on weekends status means that he doesn't post here yesterday and today posts only four posts that were all Beetlegeusy in nature (which he himself admits he normally doesn't do); I feel it far more likely that he's mostly been contributing in the scum PT, realized he had been called out, and decided to pop in.
I feel like the nature of his posts is indicative of him being scum, in part because in spite of being V/LA there's no solving in it.
The Battle Mage I know would solve even when being V/LA and the lack of it is a huge fucking red flag.
[Next up is BM opting not to post while V/LA is a scumtell. I see. My only question would be, why post at all then? If BM!scum would like to use V/LA status as an excuse to not solve -- then what's the deal with doing non game-related posts? Maybe he thought he could get away with it ig. I am not aware of scum!BM not wanting to solve, either]
In post 1178, mastina wrote: In post 1155, Battle Mage wrote:Despite having not posted anything of value, or read anything of significance - I am Mastina's top scumread.
Yes, exactly--and you continue to have not posted anything of value.
Instead of posting something of value while on V/LA,
you've made literally twelve posts explaining why you aren't making anything of value while V/LA.
You spent the time typing TWELVE POSTS to explain "I don't do content while V/LA".
Twelve posts of explaining why you're not making content.
Instead of one post explaining it and eleven of doing anything resembling scumhunting.
Or one post explaining, a second post clarifying, and ten posts of some rudimentary basic scumhunting.
Or even just one post where you officially and publicly declare to the mod that you're V/LA over the weekend, leaving it at just that.
You've made twelve posts, and all of them are excuses to avoid making content.
I did, actually--there was activity from you, content activity,
after
this game has started. I cannot go into more detail than this without violating the Ongoing Games discussion rule, but suffice to say: this game started on Friday; you were posting content elsewhere on Saturday.
You literally were active in at least one other game while doing nothing in this game.
[Activity telling him, he played somewhere else. I see.]
In post 1631, mastina wrote:It would be a welcome addition since MURDERCAT's chances of flipping scum are at least equal to Ircher's--which is to say, infinitesimally higher than Dunn/Double's chances.
Except Norwee has?
I realize that Alisae's posts are, overall, less town than Norwee's posts are (tho there are still strong town indicates from Alisae's half, too!).
But Norwee's posts are plenty town.
I agree with this assessment!
I disagree that Norwee hasn't shown it!
[This isn't related to BM -- I'm just noting it for my read on Double Trouble. i think it's plausible to say that Norwe is out of his scumrange with the large amount he's been posting (thats content i still need to sort through though) ]
In post 1645, mastina wrote: In post 1532, Battle Mage wrote:ok as you can tell I've run out of steam...I'll keep going tomorrow until I catch up
Ah yes.
Your 'content' can be summed up as:
Polar Bear Express is an unlikely FL pick (this is fair); Ali/Norwee would be a top pick (this is a bad take that fuels the paranoia on the slot when it's pretty damn clearly false).
Speculating that the confscum talking indicates I am scum (this is a bad take for pretty obvious reasons); calling mastina-Dunn one town/one scum also off of the confscum (this is also a bad take for the same obvious reasons); Bell town (this is fair, as BM should see Bell's townness); reaffirming Noraa's town (this is fair); calling Ydrasse scum (this is a bad take).
Asking for a heads up if at L-1, proving that you're reading the thread because what good would this notification do for you if you weren't? (this is important enough of something that I'm going to requote that post to point it out since I missed this implication the first time).
Calling Toogeloo town (this is fair).
Elaborating on your stance which proves you are reading the game without commenting on it.
Placing an opportunistic vote on Double the Trouble and indicating you are aware that the ic said that there were four names in contention with Ircher and Double Trouble as two of them.
Taking back the bad-Ydrasse take and calling Ydrasse town (this is fair).
Calling Solstice scum, a take that's questionable (I cannot in good faith call it a bad take because there's at least some merit to the accusation, but it is still a questionable stance to take due to the ease and convenience of it).
Calling pichu town (this is fair).
A fluff post, followed by
another fluff post.
And then you declaring you're out of steam.
So to reiterate.
Bad reads on 2-5 slots, where you do take back the bad read on one but leave the bad reads on the others.
Good reads on 4, later 5, slots.
And nothing more.
You've developed reads on a grand total of 9 slots (if I am being generous), in a 17-player game. After having read 730 posts, where every slot had posted at least once in that timeframe. You have reads, half of which are bad, on literally only half the playerlist.
Why are people thinking this is in any way Battle Mage as town?
He's being lazy.
He's making bad, easy takes, and avoiding taking stances on most players.
He's refusing to give the game much in the way of actual content.
And this is him after his V/LA has ended.
[OKAY. So i recall reading this way back when. She criticizes BM for a lack of meaningful content here, and how he exits the thread after making that content. She draws the conclusion that he is lazy, makes bad/easy takes, and doesn't create content.]
[i blew this off because, even if she finds his content low quality, he IS playing the game. If she didn't disagree with so many of his takes here, then she wouldn't be making this case i don't think. I agree that his content is relatively low through that stretch, though. So there's valid criticisms and obviously it jives with the "scum!BM is struggling to create content in this game" idea she's got going.]
[You know actually this post (faintly) reminds me of
this where I attacked BM early game (TvT) in Jigsaw Mafia for having bad content + stuff i constantly disagreed with.]
[My verdict on this case is that there is nothing BM!town couldn't do here -- like yeah, I expect him to have takes I disagree with, or have fluffy content. I think mastina's points that he's avoiding making content / solving (especially during V/LA) whereas he would be doing more as town is plausible. So continuing on]
In post 1646, mastina wrote: In post 1523, Battle Mage wrote:it's best to give warning when you put someone at E-1 so they can claim, in case they are a power role, or just because it's good practice/good for the game.
To reiterate:
Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread,
how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1
?
To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:
In post 731, Battle Mage wrote:i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee
He claimed he responded to the message not due to reading the thread, but finding it with a search.
But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.
So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.
Which is cemented here:
This post is indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative.
None of the posts in that range mentioned Pooky's pool of four, and yet somehow Battle Mage knows to vote Double the Trouble, one of the names in that pool of four, over Ircher, another name in the pool of four?
I call bullshit.
Battle Mage has read most of the thread already. Maybe genuinely not all of it, but he knows far, far more than he is pretending he knows.
[This is stuff that you can't fake. I'm thinking this can't be SvS.]
[If everything in this mastina post is exactly how it went, then I can see why she is convinced BM is scummy. as scum, I will tend to read the thread more than I let on (although.. usually only when im in a tough spot where I have to pretend i dont see some damning piece of evidence a mate is scum, for example) ]
[I have some questions: the part where BM said he used the search function, that was
731. However, the post where BM appears to acknowledge the PoE-4 decree, that was post
1526. how are you sure that the era of BM not reading the thread ended with his V/LA? I presume that he kept saying he hadn't read up around the 1500 area.
In post 1528, Battle Mage wrote:Morning Tweet could be scum here. A good choice if Flavor made it. One to watch. I'm on page 27 phew...
[Okay, I see. he admits to being at page 27. And where was the POE-4 decree?]
In post 1319, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:so after consulting for a long time with my ace team of mason friends we have come up with this POE-4;
we will eliminate someone from this list today:
Double Trouble
Ircher
Battle Mage
Dunnstral
Pls don't put anyone within 2 votes of being elim'd I'd like to do some final heart-heart talk with the victim first thanks!
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile")
[Okay. Now was there a place where BM was actively posting where it got brought up, so he would know what it is? That is how I know about the POE-4, after all, it was continuously talked about]
[Wait. No mate, there's a way simpler explanation than that BM was aware of the POE-4 by reading and accidentally slipped it in
1526.]
In post 1524, MURDERCAT wrote: In post 1486, Blade Dancer wrote:
Ircher
(6): Solstice, Netflix and Chill, MURDERCAT, Bell, Polar Bear Express, Toogeloo
Double the Trouble
(4): Dunnstral, pichu, Ydrasse, Not Known 15
Solstice
(1): Spiffeh
Bell
(1): Creature
Ydrasse
(1): Ircher
Dunnstral
(1): Double the Trouble
Battle Mage
(1): mastina
Not Voting
(2): Dr Easy Bake, Battle Mage
With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.
Deadline
:
(expired on 2020-12-14 16:00:00)
Good job guys. No prods needed.
You have 1 vote on you?
[Murdercat had just linked a VC where Double/Ircher were the competing wagons. Mastina says that it's "indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative." in
1646.
It's not. They were the main wagons who just got linked in a VC to him in the prior post.
[Obviously this doesn't make BM town or mastina's case disingenuous, I think mastina's case is for real. But he didn't slip having knowledge he shouldn't there, which is
1646's second point. So that's wrong. But the first point I still haven't reviewed. Let's go over that..]
In post 1646, mastina wrote:Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread, how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1?
[So Mastina's point is that BM is asking to be notified if he's put to X-1, which clashes with how he's not reading the thread, so how would he be able to see the notification? What confuses me about this is that BM's post where he says he wasn't reading the thread is back when he was on V/LA and was explaining the search function thing. He doesn't say he's going to continue to ignore the thread.]
[So, in other words, why does BM saying he wasn't reading the thread in the
past
, during V/LA apply to him reading the thread in the
future
, aka to be notified of X-1 status? I am confused how these clash. I'm going to finally move on. God that was a waste of time because it doesn't make BM town at all, it just means those points aren't particularly great]
In post 1647, mastina wrote:My top scumread is Battle Mage because almost all of his claims are full of shit.
I know for a fact he posted content in other games during the time period he claims to have been V/LA in this game. In spite of no content in this game.
I know for a fact that his claim to have searched for his name is bullshit because
this is the search result that'd be generated from it. It is far, far more likely that he was reading during his V/LA and not giving content, but felt the need to give a pop-in, so he invented an excuse to do so, banking on nobody checking his claimed method and hoping nobody would call this behavior out.
I know that he's softing a power role, but I know for a fact that the way he's doing so is his scum meta because town-BM does not soft in that way whereas scum-BM does.
Battle Mage's play here is his scum meta through and through, start to finish.
As for top townread, that I cannot give you as two of my top townreads are in your pool and you asked for me to describe only one--but Dunnstral and Double the Trouble are both equally not-scum to me in both being locktown reads of mine in my townbloc.
[I would have to take mastina's word about the activity tells. It is a bad look for him]
[Searching "Battle Mage" does give you Norwe's
475. Unsure what she means here]
[Ahh, perhaps mastina pointing out that scum!BM claims a power role here is why he claimed VT. In fact, I bet a lot of people would have gone "BS" in response -- so maybe VT was a better pick.]
In post 1718, mastina wrote:Also since Battle Mage reminded me of his posting, this feels the appropriate time to do this:
The game thread opened at Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:50 pm.
Everyone received the daystart PM on Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:59 pm.
So everyone, at approximately 5 pm pst on Friday December 4th, knew that D1 had began and was open.
In post 1943, Battle Mage wrote: In post 1887, Titus wrote:Because I was a) holding out for BM and b) was going to quick hammer if you voted him.
VLA until Sunday
weren't you voting me for hammering yesterday? (although it wasn't exactly quick, and was very much facilitated by superbowl)
This is a content post by Battle Mage made in that Normal on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:01 pm. A full 20 hours after the start of our game.
In post 1944, Battle Mage wrote: In post 1908, Rannygazoo wrote: In post 1831, Battle Mage wrote:I figure it's obvious to scum that I'm a PR at this point anyway so I'll do my proper claim.
Hey BM why do you think this would be obvious to scum or to anyone? I didn’t see where you crumbed it.
lol! maybe ask Flavor Leaf or Titus since they both picked up on it. i was hinting at it for numerous posts today, after I figured there was a risk we wouldn't elim OWER unless I gave a bit more help.
This is another content post made by Battle Mage. On Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:05 pm.
In post 1945, Battle Mage wrote:also, i don't even have the paranoia of OWER-town in a weird setup with 2 town protectives and a roleblocker, given if that was the case scum would just have taken up my offer to elim him, then me.
This is
a third
content post by Battle Mage on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:06 pm.
In post 1947, Battle Mage wrote: In post 1921, MathBlade wrote:Titus let me be blunt here. You’re acting an awful lot like a fourth scum and this is ELO. I get both NPOM’s and BM’s claims are suspect as fuck. But the fact you’re literally waiting out in the wings for a quick hammer (your words) instead of voting NPOM when in your world there is no way I could be scum is sus as fuck. You’re not even considering traitor which is normal, and I don’t know if the above is a slip. Give me a reason by play you’re town here. Not mechanics. Play.
how on earth is Titus acting like it's ELO? and how is my claim remotely "suspect"? I really hope, if my solve is right, you're just screwing around, and not actually going to throw the game for town.
This is a fourth content post by Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:10 pm.
In post 1948, Battle Mage wrote:I feel like there is probably not one town player left alive who has played well, and virtually every town player who is dead, had a better showing.
This is (an incredibly accurate on-point) fifth content post by Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:12 pm.
In post 1950, Battle Mage wrote:it seems very simple to me. We have 2 claimed protectives. Me and OWER. Unlikely, given all the other claimed and revealed roles. How the claimed masons don't see it, is beyond me. I figure it goes like this: Ranny sheeps Math
Math stalls but ultimately does whatever Titus and Flavor Leaf tell him
I have no idea why but whatever. Just seems a shitty way to lose when we can easily win this.
This is a seventh content post by Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:22 pm.
In post 1952, Battle Mage wrote: In post 1949, Rannygazoo wrote: In post 1944, Battle Mage wrote: In post 1908, Rannygazoo wrote: In post 1831, Battle Mage wrote:I figure it's obvious to scum that I'm a PR at this point anyway so I'll do my proper claim.
Hey BM why do you think this would be obvious to scum or to anyone? I didn’t see where you crumbed it.
lol! maybe ask Flavor Leaf or Titus since they both picked up on it. i was hinting at it for numerous posts today, after I figured there was a risk we wouldn't elim OWER unless I gave a bit more help.
So you started crumbing it day 3?
it wasn't really crumbing, i was dropping whole fking loaves. i was hoping Titus or FL would be town, take the hint, and we could bury it in content so I wouldnt have to claim.
This is the eighth content post from Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:23 pm.
In post 1954, Battle Mage wrote:it seems to me that you're about to throw away the game regardless of anything I say because you are listening to Titus and FL and not me. You'll forgive me if I don't waste my time going back to dig out quotes which you can easily find yourself (you were here when this all happened and I know you're not stupid). absolutely ridiculous
This is the ninth content post from Battle Mage, on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:27 pm.
But here's the important part, and the REAL bombshell.
In post 1959, Battle Mage wrote:can you just look at the claims please, and tell me setup-wise what makes sense - 1 protective and investigative on alternating nights - yes. 2 protectives which overlap awkwardly - no. that's essentially what this boils down to. i only 'crumbed' when i knew it was necessary to risk outting my role to get OWER-elimmed. it doesn't make sense for me to do that as a gambit to save hypothetical partner NPOM when it buys me maximum of 1 mis-elim for 2 consecutive scum elims, or potentially 2 consecutive scum-elims and conftowning somebody else.
If you are masons, think about the permutations here - what makes sense in terms of setup and also the way each player has approached it. It's not like BM doesn't fakeclaim as town often if there's a reason, and it's pretty obvious that the manner I claimed VT (under no pressure, and using the excuse of being neighbourhooded to make it believable) was just to stop me being NKed. My role is alternate night so it kinda relies on me surviving a few night phases to get value from it.
This is the tenth content post from Battle Mage on Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:41 pm.
Notice something?
In post 704, Battle Mage wrote:I'm here buddy. 28 pages on the weekend I'm VLA.
shiiiiiiit
I'm town anyway, I guess Pooky wasn't given the opportunity to pick me.
Team FL go go go!
This was Battle Mage's first post in this game, a declaration that he's V/LA on weekends...at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:32 pm.
Battle Mage made nine content posts in another game before declaring V/LA in this game, then
went back to that game to post more
and still doing nothing.
He made his
eleventh content post at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:44 pm.
His
twelfth content post at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:44 pm.
His
thirteenth content post at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:47 pm.
And then he came back to this thread to post:
In post 731, Battle Mage wrote:i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee
Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:50 pm.
He claimed V/LA as an excuse to not make content at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:51 pm.
And why is this important? Because after claiming V/LA as an excuse to not make content in this game...
In post 1980, Battle Mage wrote:lol scumslip? dude get real.
also, ftr i am never "coached" as scum - people who try, get bussed to death immediately. consider me checked out for the day, as I think this is a lost cause. Math seems more interested in keeping FL happy than elimming scum or even talking about the possibility of elimming scum, or even talking to me about anything actually useful.
...He made his fourteenth content post of that game, AFTER this, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:04 pm.
And a fifteenth, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:07 pm.
And
a sixteenth, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:09 pm.
Here's his seventeenth content post, at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:11 pm.
Here's his eighteenth content post on Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:17 pm.
And then, there is a timegap from him posting again there...which doesn't correlate to him posting here. (Because his last post here that day was at Sat Dec 05, 2020 1:58 pm.)
In post 2022, Battle Mage wrote:VOTE: Nopoweroverme
doesn't look like we can do anything else anyway. what a joke. at least there's a statistical chance he can be scum. It's virtually unanimous anyway, and I'm obviously wasting my breath with Mathblade. But I'm sure my solve is right and this probably flips town. Whatever.
He does however return to make his twentieth content post of the day at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:35 pm.
Followed by
21st content at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:36 pm.
And
22nd content post on Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:38 pm.
With other slight gaps following, because his
23rd content post was at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:44 pm;
His
24th content post was at Sat Dec 05, 2020 2:53 pm.
And that was it for him in that game.
He made 24 posts of content in another game, all the while clinging to "I'm V/LA, I can't post content over the weekend" in this game.
That game was him as town, posting up a storm during the time he's V/LA.
So yes.
I have a pretty damn compelling case that Battle Mage's claim of not making content due to being V/LA over the weekend is utter bullshit.
[Fucking hell, that's hilariously high dedication. I appreciate it though because i would have had to take her word for it otherwise.]
[Obviously that's a bad look and this would be fairly effective for catching me personally as scum. There are other factors that can make me hate a game and stop posting in it, but never before the game has actually started.]
[What causes Battle Mage to avoid this game and post in another? Sure, there could be reasons other than alignment. However, him using his V/LA status as a reason to not play this game is really strange. Additionally, if mastina feels that scum!BM struggles to create content and has noticed that as being a part of his scum meta, then that definitely helps.]
[I would very much like to see BM's response to this post -- I will now check to see if there is one.]
In post 1722, Battle Mage wrote:lol mastina, if it wasn't bad enough you trolling me in this game, you bring up the TGP game I just lost too? argh
your 'case' appears to be that i posted in some games and not others whilst on VLA. Which is correct - I had some time, just not enough time to actively keep up with the majority so I cherry-picked ones where I thought my contribution would be most needed in that window. As you note, the game I posted most in was where I'd just counterclaimed doctor and town was about to lose.
[I see, BM had many games and had to choose which to play in. I will note that this game not making the cut can be telling that he's scum, although not definitively because I definitely can see prioritizing a heated Xylo situation over a large you haven't read the majority of.]
[Using V/LA as an excuse to not play is a bad look but at least Murdercat asked him if he had been reading so I guess there was some incentive to justify. Curious to see what mastina says next..]
In post 2079, mastina wrote: In post 1722, Battle Mage wrote:your 'case' appears to be that i posted in some games and not others whilst on VLA.
It's more than that.
It's you making twelve posts in this game where you insist you're not reading the game and are using V/LA as an excuse to not make content during that time...while there is active proof across the site that your statements in this game were a lie, as well as proof in this game that your claim to have not been reading is also a lie.
I.e., that you made multiple posts insisting on V/LA as an excuse to not read and not make content...when there's proof that, given the chance to post 12 times, and given the things you displayed awareness of, that you were reading and could produce content during that time.
In post 1722, Battle Mage wrote:I had some time, just not enough time to actively keep up with the majority so I cherry-picked ones where I thought my contribution would be most needed in that window.
And yet, something ongoing-games-friendly from you where you said this, is not what you said. You didn't say "I'm V/LA over the weekend and this game just started so I don't have the time for this game right now", or something to that effect, where you mention that you have limited time on the weekend and that you can't spend that time on this game but it's fine because it just started.
You made multiple posts where you made a blanket "I'm V/LA, therefore, not able to make content"--multiple posts. One post was all you needed to make, but you made multiple posts affirming that V/LA. Multiple posts that take your previous-am-V/LA-on-weekends time. You felt the need to make twelve posts on the weekend emphasizing this V/LA, rather than just one and spending the time of those 11 posts elsewhere.
In post 2080, mastina wrote: In post 1727, Battle Mage wrote:haha my scum meta is lurking, but i havent been lurking here, I spent the weekend with my daughter and then had work either side, plus more games than I normally have.
Yes and during that V/LA time you felt the need to make 12 contentless posts rather than just one, while displaying knowledge that you shouldn't have if you were genuinely not reading the game. And upon coming back, you produced a bunch of lame posts that, while technically content, were incredibly lackluster, lacking real substance/depth to them. And then with reads on less than half the playerlist, called it a night, on your first day back.
And only when you became the lead wagon did you pick up your activity.
[BM clearly felt obligated to make posts in this game despite not really reading through it. And as he did it, he would always use his V/LA status as an excuse for having not read up. That is a fair point.]
[In my opinion, that the slips where BM allegedly: A.) Accidentally acknowledges the POE-4, and B.) asks for someone to notify him of X-1 status -- do not reveal that he is lying about reading the thread. So I disagree with that assessment.]
[I think that, due to my assessment where I believe he was not lying about reading the thread, he cannot be considered confirmed scum for that.]
In post 2081, mastina wrote: In post 1735, Battle Mage wrote:I'm sure she has noted that my activity was similar to here in the majority of my games, but it's inconvenient for her 'case'.
You did not make 12 posts declaring yourself V/LA over the weekend in your other games. That is a trait unique to this one.
In fact, TGP's Normal was not the only game you made content in at the time, but obviously TGP's is the only one which I can discuss due to it being the only one that ended. The relevant spot for this is
currently on page 13 of this search, to be moved further back for people when you post more and to become unable to be viewed come Saturday.
If you were in six games, it is correct to say you did not post content in all of them.
But you didn't post at all in three of them if so. (I count two instances of you posting in the endgame of completed games, then a total of three games, two being this one and TGP's game.)
You did post here, making this game indeed unique among your ongoing games.
As the only game you were a living player in, that you posted in, but posted zero content during, but still posted a lot.
[I think this is a wildly better point than the lying stuff -- BM clearly prioritized the Xylo game, yes. He has other games, yes. But he chooses this game to be the one where he constantly makes himself appear in thread (whilst under the pretense that he's V/LA so he isn't reading).]
[I think this combined with the idea that scum!BM is lurkier or doesnt want to solve, or generally doesnt want to make content as much, is a decent case. He clearly felt the need to make himself shown in this game. One thing I still wonder, though -- earlier in this post of mine, I asked "why does scum BM feel the need to pop in and talk at all?" I am still a bit curious about that. Why not just not speak, as he did in the other games? I still find the comparison of his behaviour in this game versus the others to be a scummy look for him.]
In post 2084, mastina wrote: I did since I figured I'd be the only player who bothered to check.
Battle Mage has claimed that, at the time, he was an active player in 6 games, including this one and TGP's recently-ended Mini Normal.
This shouldn't be one of them, because it is listed as being in postgame. It cannot be one of the games he didn't post content in as a result.
This also shouldn't be one of them, because it is listed as being in postgame. It cannot be one of the games he didn't post content in as a result.
He didn't post content in this game, but posted 12 times here.
He posted content in TGP's now-completed Normal and one other game.
He didn't post in any other game, not even contentless.
It was a total of five games--two in postgame at the time he posted in them, a third being TGP's, and a fourth being this game.
So why the contentless posting in this game, rather than either not posting at all (what he claims is what he'd do on V/LA), or the content posting of the other two?
Why did he display a trait unique to this game?
[Yes, exactly. That is the question i'm asking, albeit in a more neutral way. Why does he do that in this game specifically as scum?]
In post 2085, mastina wrote: In post 1740, Battle Mage wrote:my request to Pooky, and the town as a whole I guess, is to actually give me more than 2-3 real life days to do something useful and obvtowny, rather than elim me because I didnt have time to keep up with and post properly in the majority of my games over the weekend. I think that's a little opportunistic and slimey.
By the way.
On this note.
There is a lovely quote I want to give from a fairly obscure game that I feel does a good job of explaining why Battle Mage is scum here.
Subject: Mini 2096: I Don't Remember the Name of This GameThe Fonz wrote: In post 899, Menalque wrote:I Also, I was legitimately just really busy IRL which is why my posting/catch ups were limited and I maintain that was a bad reason to scumread my slot.
Nah, that was the individual scumtell I talk about above, and an excellent reason to suspect you. Scum and town tend to play differently when they have little time. Town motivated players will often try to ensure they do as much as they can with their limited time: naked votes, claims, really important questions. People who have time to whine in thread about how unfair it is when they are busy irl are usually scum. They try to use limited access as an excuse to lurk. These players also tend to continue whining postgame and claim that they'd have done the exact same thing as town, but they keep flipping scum!
Contrast: I did a sixty hour work week over six days from about three rl days into this game.
Ever since I had the pleasure of playing with Fonz in that game, I have taken this to heart, and yes, it remains true to this day, and anecdotally I've noticed I follow it myself. (Where as scum when V/LA I use it as an excuse to not be around but as town when V/LA I still try to give
something
.)
This game Battle Mage insists that his twelve posts while V/LA that gave zero content were something he'd do as town--maybe he genuinely believes that he would do that as town.
But twelve posts essentially 'whining' that he's V/LA is something that is far, far more likely to just actually come from scum.
[Okay. I agree with you that this would catch me as scum, a lot. it is possible that is what is happening here, yes]
In post 2095, mastina wrote: In post 1763, Polar Bear Express wrote:I think softing pr on day 1 is risky play cuz u might attract trackers/watchers/cops/whatever. Methinks its not optimal play for scum!BM here especially cuz if he didn't, his wagon wouldn't have exploded like that(imo)
Softing a PR is also a great way for scum to avoid being eliminated on D1 without being forced to commit to a specific claim, giving them time to tailor a custom-made claim that fits far better into the game. (Something which FL is notably apt at doing.)
By letting it be a soft rather than forcing a hardclaim he's accountable for, you let scum get away with murder. Quite literally.
In post 2098, mastina wrote: In post 1790, Double the Trouble wrote: In post 1788, Battle Mage wrote:The point is that you didn't have enough to read me off full stop. In essence, I wouldn't expect 2 good independent protown players to both settle on a top scumread of a guy who was VLA for the 48 hour life of the game. Doesn't mean you should have townread me either. But the fact you came to such a strong consensus doesn't look legit.
Haha yes, that would sound good for you if it wasn't an blatant misrepresentation of our read.
It is in fact your still avoidance of any real read and engagement on the thread (ignoring your attack on us, as that's easy for scum!you to replicate) that's been increasing my scumread on you for every minute since that V/LA has subsided.
- Norwee
Another good post for why BM is scum and Norwee is town.
[as a somewhat related note, I think that is perhaps hard to believe BM has Double as his strongest SR.]
[Oh another note, definitely still thinking what I mentioned earlier where this isn't SvS. Now that I've actually read the thing you know]
In post 2206, mastina wrote: In post 2008, Solstice wrote:And you're assuming her reads are all off the mark, just like that game as well
While my reads were far from perfect that game (and nobody that game can claim to have done otherwise themselves as literally nobody had absolutely perfect reads), they were still pretty damn good? I lead the D1 elimination on scum, critically had very vital townreads on key town players that were otherwise being scumread, and identified two of the four remaining scum as well.
I had two scum that I misread, and three town that I misread. That's it. I had accurate reads on 15/20 slots that game that I had a need to read. 15/20 correct reads translates into 4/5 translates into 80% read accuracy. Given 5/23 players were scum which is a 21% scum ratio, that's not bad for being informed of the alignment of two slots in the game. (If you included them, it'd be 17/22, a 77% accuracy rate, still decent.)
Where is the idea that my reads were all off the mark that game coming from?
In post 2008, Solstice wrote: i also hilariously enough am not reading mastina's posts on why you're a liar much cause I think she suffers from some kind of bias as well
The idea that I have bias in my reads is a scum narrative. (It is an argument almost exclusively made by scum. Almost. FL has made it as town and BM is the same sort of player as FL so him making that argument isn't something inherently in of itself scum-indicative from him. Butstill, the argument that I have bias towards specific players is one frequently made in an attempt to discredit my, usually quite valid, reasons for being suspicious of the slot.)
My reads are always based off of the evidence in the current game, supported by the evidence from past games that I am familiar with.
While it is possible that the reads I generate in that method are wrong (and in fact frequently are as my read accuracy is not much higher than random overall), they are not, inherently, biased.
[Apologies, i would like to atone for that at the moment obviously. I don't think you are biased here. I felt that way originally because you and BM went at it last time we played, as well as I feel like it was brought up in that game how you two seem to do that a lot. So I figured this was a clash that you two do on a recurring basis.]
[I mean, even if it is, I should still examine the evidence. Ignoring the evidence and dismissing it blindly is a scum narrative indeed]
In post 2236, mastina wrote: In post 2058, Ircher wrote:This is a good point though; Battle Mage is a bit too self-focused when he's in no danger of dying. That said, it fits his personality.
Not in my experience.
The Battle Mage as scum I've encountered when threatened reacted pretty much the way he is here.
The Battle Mage as town I've encountered when threatened still had this aura of smug superiority in knowing he was town, knowing he wouldn't be eliminated, and continuing to scumhunt on a large scale.
Yup, and which alignment do you think will contribute less when under this sort of pressure?
[He typically has a self-focused playstyle, i agree with Ircher. But I agree with you that he always keeps up on the scumhunt -- he wants to be the one who finds the scum, and not a lot gets in the way of that. If it is true that he's weaker at doing that as scum, there's a serious point to be made here, yeah -- and it makes sense for mastina to think he's so scummy.]
In post 2261, mastina wrote: In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:A. Why on earth would BM-scum pretend not to be reading the game? Where's the motive?
Take your pick, any of these are options.
1: Allows you to get away with not faking content during a time you're genuinely V/LA--you don't want to put in the effort over the weekend as scum because reading is less effort than writing.
2: In the current meta, scum lurking and letting town eat itself up in TvTs is an incredibly strong scum strategy. FL is not above utilizing it as a, on a grander scale, scum strategy for winning the game, if he thinks he can successfully maintain the TvTs.
3: Allows you to create refined, stronger points when you come in and attack the areas you've had the time to observe are weakspots in the town's stances/arguments, while pretending that these arguments were made blindly.
4: Faking a stream of consciousness catchup when you're actually informed is rather easy to pull off. If you're more aware than you're pretending, then there can be towncred in taking stances that're informed from that extra reading.
5: You can write things out in advance in the scum PT, and then finish them inthread, to let your scumbuddies check the posts and let them give feedback on what you're intending to say.
Among other possible reasons.
Would it be all of these at the same time? Probably not! But this is an incomplete list of possible explanations. Suffice to say: there are some.
In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:B. If I had actually read the game, why would I subsequently spend several hours trawling through and giving my thoughts on everything?
Ties into one of the above options. It takes far less time to read than it does to write. If you read in advance and pretend not to, then the writing takes less time and produces better content for the result. However, it does still take time. Less time than reading-while-responding, but still some time.
But you can't exactly not give thoughts at all and expect to live, can you? So you NEED to post content, even if it's on things that you read in advance.
Plus, your initial 'catchup' where you were sparse in quoting posts and mostly went 'page x, thoughts on page' looks like this exact approach, where you read in advance and didn't feel like putting in the extra effort to quote content from those pages, so you summarized them.
In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:C. If I had read the game, why would I say something about possibly being close to E-1, when I was nowhere near?
This is fair since I did technically say "BM has read the thread or at least most of it" and it is in fact inaccurate to accuse you of having read all of the game. A more accurate stance would be "BM has read at least some of the thread when pretending he hasn't and is showing knowledge indicative that he's read more than he claims he has". Which is to say, you didn't read the whole thread, but read more than you claimed, so you wouldn't know you weren't near L-1.
In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:2. Mastina alleges that BM lied about being on VLA to avoid posting in this game, whilst posting in other games, implying he is scum here and town elsewhere.
False. I allege that you are genuinely V/LA but your 12 non-content posts while on V/LA while making content-posts or no posts in other games, is indicative of being scum in this game who was doing more than he said he was, behind the scenes.
As the rest of your points are in relationship to a claim I never made, they are irrelevant.
In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:Do you think, given we are now 80 pages into the game, there is anything else of merit for you to comment on?
Yes, and I continue to do so.
While the majority of my content is outlining why you are scum, my posts are not exclusively about your scumness; I have addressed reads on other slots. I should give a full indepth readslist with reasons, and it's among the things that I intend to do soon(TM).
In post 2083, Battle Mage wrote:You could give some thoughts on other players besides me - reads which don't simply lean on your false premise of me being scum.
I have reads on every player in the game and none of them rely on their read on you. Quite the opposite; reads that might be different if I were to look at their interactions with you (Noraa's bad defense of you, Creature's calling you scum), I am, explicitly,
ignoring
, in favor of my own read on them (Noraa's town anyway, Creature's a scum candidate anyway).
I have and continue to do so--
The posts you make show TMI, are weak reasons on weaker slots aside from the TMI Double Trouble push, and largely underwhelming.
[See, I don't think BM is faking not reading the game, or at least not too much. I do agree heavily that there are a plethora of reasons to do that as scum though. However, the slips she pointed out aren't slips imo. However HOWEVER, he still could be scum faking not reading regardless of that.]
[It makes so much sense that BM is engaging with Mastina on the point (#1) she has that i think is irrelevant or at least partially inaccurate. However, the second point she makes (the one I think has better merit) !! he misinterprets it!! He interprets it as her accusing him of faking V/LA, when in reality, she is saying his approach to this game versus other games while on V/LA is scum indicative. What a coincidence that he can approach her first point, but not the one I actually think is for real good.]
In post 2263, mastina wrote: In post 2087, Battle Mage wrote:Essentially your argument is:
"Battle Mage posted a few times here, but nothing substantial, during his VLA"
The biggest problem is...then what? Why does that make me any more likely to be scum?
I will requote the Fonz quote for why it makes you scum:
In post 2085, mastina wrote:There is a lovely quote I want to give from a fairly obscure game that I feel does a good job of explaining why Battle Mage is scum here.
Subject: Mini 2096: I Don't Remember the Name of This GameThe Fonz wrote: In post 899, Menalque wrote:I Also, I was legitimately just really busy IRL which is why my posting/catch ups were limited and I maintain that was a bad reason to scumread my slot.
Nah, that was the individual scumtell I talk about above, and an excellent reason to suspect you. Scum and town tend to play differently when they have little time. Town motivated players will often try to ensure they do as much as they can with their limited time: naked votes, claims, really important questions. People who have time to whine in thread about how unfair it is when they are busy irl are usually scum. They try to use limited access as an excuse to lurk. These players also tend to continue whining postgame and claim that they'd have done the exact same thing as town, but they keep flipping scum!
Contrast: I did a sixty hour work week over six days from about three rl days into this game.
Ever since I had the pleasure of playing with Fonz in that game, I have taken this to heart, and yes, it remains true to this day, and anecdotally I've noticed I follow it myself. (Where as scum when V/LA I use it as an excuse to not be around but as town when V/LA I still try to give
something
.)
This game Battle Mage insists that his twelve posts while V/LA that gave zero content were something he'd do as town--maybe he genuinely believes that he would do that as town.
But twelve posts essentially 'whining' that he's V/LA is something that is far, far more likely to just actually come from scum.
Your twelve posts while V/LA lacking content also have zero town motivation.
There was no town motivation behind making twelve contentless posts while V/LA.
There was scum motivation behind those posts while V/LA, that I have already explained extensively.
In post 2264, mastina wrote: In post 2097, Battle Mage wrote:I mean the reality Mastina, if you cared to consider it, is that I displayed a unique trait in each game, as I posted with different frequencies in each (including in some, as you note, not at all). It isn't as simple as "BM did a unique thing in this game whilst in other games he followed a clear post/don't post pattern" - that is factually untrue. But you're still missing the pivotal question, which is why me doing something different in 1 game, implies I'm town in all of the others and scum here.
That's not what I meant by unique trait and you arguing it is in bad faith.
You said that you've never before searched for your name before, yet you allegedly did so over the weekend while V/LA.
That is a trait unique to this game, in an entirely different way than "didn't post in a game" or "posted content in a game". Having different posting frequency is something that has happened in dozens of your past games. Having searched for your name is something you've never done before.
But even were it what I meant, the unique trait displayed in this game is one that is, inherently, a trait more likely to come from scum.
If you were totally inactive while v/la, that would be a nai trait. Neither alignment is more or less likely to do this; it's inherently null.
If you were active and producing content while v/la, that would be a town trait. (Because town being active and producing content while V/LA is a town trait.)
But by being 'active' so to speak and producing twelve contentless posts while V/LA, that trait is, uniquely, a scum trait. (Because scum being 'active' and not producing content while V/LA is a scum trait.)
[Does BM ever interpret this point correctly?]
In post 2272, mastina wrote: You had a couple of minutes while V/LA and that was enough time over two days to make twelve contentless posts, and you spent those couple of minutes on those contentless posts rather than elsewhere doing something productive or here doing something productive?
You decided that, with a couple minutes to spare, it was important to post contentless posts in here, rather than, decided that, with a couple minutes to spare, you'd do something with that time? And then, rather than leaving it at just one contentless post that was low-effort, decided it was so important that you needed to make twelve over two days?
This narrative does not flow.
In post 2167, Battle Mage wrote:but even if you were correct, you failed to make any attempt to argue why it would be alignment indicative for me to have the posting pattern I did here.
Apparently demonstrating that scum have a higher tendency to make excuses to avoid posting content when V/LA than town who will either not post at all or if posting will produce content, doesn't count as giving evidence.
Apparently showing the lack of town motivation while outlining the plethora of scum motivation, doesn't count as giving evidence.
Apparently showing how your narrative of your actions not lining up, and pointing out the inherent contradictions within that narrative, doesn't count as giving evidence.
[I have reached the conclusion. BM does not really engage Mastina in a way that is satisfying from what i can tell from any of these replies. I could see town!BM hand-waving the case off, but still it's convenient for him to do so as scum.]
[I should get my thoughts together and figure out a verdict, now.]
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