Mini Normal 2183 | Innocent Things | Game Over!

[PlusJOYED]

I'm hoping the 3 conf townies will vote together

the council will decide your fate

[Flavor Leaf]

1.04

Flavor Leaf

[3]: nopointinactingup#293, unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343

1.05

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Not_Mafia [2]:

Hank Spankems#69, PlusJOYED#365

Dunnstral

[3]:

Flavor Leaf#381,

Andresvmb#403, nopointinactingup#548

1.06

shellyc [3]: nopointinactingup#599,

Titus#638

, JohnnyFarrar#647

Flavor Leaf

[4]: unwnd#339,

Dunnstral#343, Titus#503, Not_Mafia#509

Unwnd is scum by VCA. 1.04 to 1.05 no point looks like scum trying to get off the wagon that looks to be gaining, but the Not Mafia wagon likely has a scum on it, which does fit with my Plus theory.

Like even if someone thought I was scum, Unwnd is scum based on 1.05/1.06, where another scum is in the other 4, at least 1.

You can look at the unflipped here and see it's exactly how my reads list lined up which is what helped me get to the spot I was at.

hmmm

why cant you believe that your wagon was all town?

because scum don't let town me go like that. Nopoint likely jumped off of me because they thought I might be able to get momentum from townies, and another scum was already on me.

like, i guess scum could have just been mia, but i highly doubt we're living in a world where Nopoint/Unwnd are both town.

[Andresvmb]

So are you trying to argue here that I was in some sort of cahoots with unwnd to eliminate you Flavor?

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm hoping the 3 conf townies will vote together

the council will decide your fate

Honestly, you guys don't deserve to decide the fate if you ever think I can be scum here.

[Flavor Leaf]

So are you trying to argue here that I was in some sort of cahoots with unwnd to eliminate you Flavor?

If you are scum, that's literally the game. I don't understand the purpose of this question

[Flavor Leaf]

Johnny is town because I know how he plays as scum, plus he’s actually been communicating with me, unlike the many people in this thread who completely ignores my line of questioning

I think your perception is biased. I think Johnny is playing strictly UTR and intentionally so. I haven't seen him really push anyone and to keep it simple he mostly posts fluff.

My perception IS biased because of a few reasons, one of which is that from my understanding of Johny scum he will push tangential wagons in an opportunistic way.

There were some arguments about how the votes stacked up, but it’s an inscrutable argument because it has to assume that Flavor is Town, and no one knows that but Flavor. If you noticed, Flavor was voted yesterday by a Confirmed Town, and by Dunn/Not_Mafia at one point. Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

Andres is the only voice of reason in this game. Most of FL's argument is predicated on the fact that he's town and therefore not really reliable. I also don't trust any of his reads, unwd and me are both town.

Why do you think we no-limmed yesterday? This is slightly rhetorical. It's because people can't decide what they want, and I believe this is

because

of predetermined elims. Like, people say 'I want X' as an example but getting your lim requires a bit more effort. There's not really anyone doing that and instead it's a lot of passivity which I'm starting to think is intentional. It's getting hard for me to distinguish posts between players because of this.

In regards to stubbornness, it attributes to the gamestate. You have people who are self-assured with just saying someone is scum is enough for others to simply agree and then accumulate votes. It's not that I'm requiring walls or deep intricate analysis, it's that I require some some sort of thought pattern to follow along with. I don't really feel like you answered my question and instead with 'well shelly does this'. Strip away your preconceived notions of shelly and tell me if she would make sense as scum just by the amount of attention she's accrued already.

This is a fair point, in that case do you have any particular reads in mind who's intentionally making the game passive?

^see 720. And that was about you unwnd, not nopoint. That last paragraph.

ah, okay, this is better.

Yeah, I already stated my Unwnd reasoning with my VCA.

I am 90% sure Unwnd is scum, and I would have been okay flipping them with a coinflip odds.

Are there any other particular reason why you think unwd is scum? I don't really trust VCAs alone because it's a concept that I use as scum sometimes. The problem with it is that it presupposed you are town and so you can draw all sorts of conclusion to your benefit.

I'm a Vigilante Enabler.

If anyone ever thinks I claim this scummy ass role as scum here, we're gonna have some words post game.

FL's claim is interesting. The claim itself is towny but I'm willing to bet FL is the type of person who gambits all sorts of things as scum.

cuz my first flawless scum win on site was a game where nopo and Johnny were my scum buddies.

*** Reliving memories ***

[Flavor Leaf]

I could still go unwnd, but if it's not gonna be Hank, I have no reason to defend the null slot.

Could wait for replacement, or kill now before replace comes in. this isnt that long of a game, though, so I think we just wait for replacement.

VOTE: Unwnd

I thought about your post Insano and it made me want to prove you wrong

this one is actually really strong, I feel

[Flavor Leaf]

trying to get a handle on the game before the long holidays.

first, titus didn't have any votes on them the whole of yesterday.

today:: noraa's votes seem are just ignorable. I cannot get a read on that slot at all.
nopoint's are mirroring Dunnstral's

looking at the votes yesterday, JohnnyF's were where I wanted to start. 3 of the last 9 were their's, so wanted to see how likely there were to be scum trying to get a free elimination

Dunn, Unwnd, Not Mafia, and Nopoint all have wagons that aren’t able to gain momentum.

There is scum in there.

Lez do this

VOTE: nopoint

I'm back.

Let's actually do this
VOTE: not maf

And if you don't wanna, tell me why not.

VOTE: shelz

I basically hate these votes. and their day 2 play is not much better. I am happy to mark them down as pretty suspicious, esp as one of the 3 people they tried to kill yesterday was Not Mafia who we have as a clear today.

NExt, wi wanted ot look at anyone else who was trying to push any elimination at the end of day 1, NoPoint is the only other one I wanted to check.

548 is a long explanation oof why Dunnstral is scum. and then 599 is a vote for Shelly (now Noraa). the switch from Dunn to Shelly got 2 votes to follow, could have switched back to Dunn at deadline neared to get some more momentum up to 4 votes...
I dunno. I am really stretching there. I can see it scummy if I want to, but day 2 I am going to give them a pass for now.

NoPoint, I think had votes on 4 different people yesterday, today there isn't anything strong about their feelings from what I can see. the vote for hank is to just get rid of a low activity slot. post 851 is very wishy washy

Plusjoyed - a low activity slot day 1. post 726 is useful to peg on them their future changes in reads, but that is pretty much the sum of them. I could see them being scum and their low activity day 1 being one of the reasons nothing got pushed to a successful elimination.

Unwnd - dislike their votes from yesterday. the vote of Flavour asking for shelly for opinion. a vote out of howhere on Hank. leans summy to me but like a lot of players there isn't much to go on.

fuzzy logic - ah man, another slot I can't read well. I do like their vote on unwnd today, but that is a much as I have.

boy, this is hard work trying to read people. I think I am going to VOTE: Nopoint but i'd go to Unwnd too

I am a total idiot. I meant to
VOTE: johnnyf
not the one I did. please ignore totally that previous error.

this is something

[Andresvmb]

maybe
andres is my strongest non-mechanical (as in roles/claims not being a thing) TRs personally.
But POE is tightening for me
I think andres, Noraa are dayplay wise town
I think either nopoint or johny is town and other maf
Notmafia and dunn gotta be town
FL is town

that leaves insano, gera, uwnd, or fuzzy as the 2 remaining scum slots in my book. I think uwnd is probably scum, he's been trying to slow things down as of late and talking himself up. I'll probably shoot him if nopoint flips red today.

if I had to guess a solve it'd be nopoint/uwnd/insano.

On play, andres looks town, yeah. But I went back and noticed he was making some pretty strained defenses of nopoint, and for all his posting looks town, he hasn't really driven the game in any direction, and I feel as though today he's started to coast quite a bit. Just a theory that's contingent partly on nopoint's flip. I know people don't trust me because of Hank's play, and I don't really have a problem getting flipped at some point, just want to give people something to consider after I flip.

I know you think I'm scum for whatever reasons you have but I'd love to flip here and think I can convince you otherwise.

VOTE: Andres

I agree with your take, but I also don't get where you're defeatist and keep saying things like 'well just flip me', because while I don't have insight about your play as town, I think you know yourself well enough to where you were able to emulate good thoughts that always gave me pause in the Mini Normal. I think Andres' speaks from a perspective that is heady analysis but nothing ever surfaces from it. I noted where I would actively have conversation with Andres prior D1 (I think even today) and it seemed like we both walked away from the conversation pretty listless. I don't know what end he gets into these arguments like they matter for him, and the more he continues to do it, the more it seems like only an appeal.

Because you’re ignoring stuff like this.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

[Andresvmb]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

This is a stretch even for you.

[Flavor Leaf]

My read on Johnny is only part of the reason why I’m confident he’s town. I also think FL’s claim is true, though not necessarily town

I feel there's a lot of focus on Johnny and I today and in my position that's really a sign that we are going to lynch town or have a no elim again. There's a high chance we're being put in this position by the scum team.

Plus, you are trying to change the game state and pushing for something so I have a feeling that you might be town, albeit misguided. I don't see where you're going with the framing theory when both Johnny and I already either implied or stated our unwillingness to lim Nora today. Do you think a scum-team would entirely change strategy just because a friend replaced in?

I personally think the Titus kill even made Shelly less likely to be scum as smart scum often go for subtle kills instead of direct threats. So I could also re-use your argument for you masterminding the kill here to implicated me and Johnny.

I'm going to entertain the thought that you're right about Shelly's playstyle then the one behind the Titus kill here should be in the sidelines and inactive, waiting for town to suicide on Night Kill Analysis. There is no need for scum to pick sides when lim on either side benefits them, and the stale state of this game is looking like it's something like that. Among my biggest suspects for this scenario are FL, Hank (before the replacement) and geraint due solely to their inactivity and that's why I'm pressuring people with votes to get some inputs on where they are.

Particularly, I feel FL disappearing off the map as soon as pressure disappears off him is scummy. Scum vig-enabler is a very possible reality.

this is a good one

[Flavor Leaf]

The biggest ?'s I have towards my pile is a bit vain. It's strange to find myself in a position where I feel a decent amount of ire (towards myself) from those I suspect.

Nopoint - I cannot follow half of the things you're doing. We had a spat and then you sorta fucked off afterwards. I wrote it off because I can't make you engage me but thus far a lot of your presence feels inapplicable. You speak with such in such a self-assured way yet results speak otherwise. My concern from a fleeting D1 thought is that this feels fabricated, and I don't want to see you lean on self-meta because that will always be a crapshoot. I actually don't even know why you started to townread me honestly if I think about it

Andres - I like your analyzing but it's becoming just busywork in my eyes. We've traded paragraphs yet your hesitance to vote is the most striking. Where do your commitments lie and how long does it take to get there? I am the most willing to be wrong on you as I feel your approach is quite similar to mine, only that I know when I'm scum a lot of my angle is just producing wordy semantics as a means to be townread for effort lol

I don't have many words about Gera, his posting doesn't seem further inspection tbh

this should confirm that it's one of Andres or Geraint.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

This is a stretch even for you.

I'm just doing possibilities.

If you are scum, I am 100% correct.

[PlusJOYED]

Do you really believe I would have trusted unwnd as the deep wolf? If I’m Scum I’ve played it a lot better. I would have used whatever clout I had left with you to try and direct the shot away from the Team, not towards my Partner. The Scum are in a horrendous position right now, where they have to win 2 1v1s to win. Nobody would willingly put themselves here.

good point. I do think since like me and andres were the only people who really suspected uwnd so I think maf may have tried to set them up as the deepwolf. I think reverse psychology isn't really your style but I haven't seen you play scum yet either.
I guess that implicates FL more. Starting to TL gera a bit more too but I'd be pissed if gera won as maf playing as he has been. Hope we can avoid another heated argument over a game.

I keep flip flopping I'm gonna step back and take a break for a day or so and hear what dunn thinks.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Noraa, Vig Nopoint, or fade Nopoint, Vig Noraa.

that's where I'm at.

Unwnd vs FL tomorrow if no scum flips, happy to go through the weaker scums to get Unwnd here.

Unwnd/Nopoint were scum trying to fade me yesterday, ShellyC was town reading me hard to counter.

I think Insano's efforts are town even if the read is largely based on tone difference from the last game. Why do you exactly

know

I'm scum. I don't feel that evidence is provided nor will you ever give it

This is why arguing with you is pointless, and I'm not looking forward to you forcing me into a 1v1 even if you're scum

Insano is the Hank slot.

Noraa is shelly slot.

I will give it Day 3, you are sitting in a spot currently of "FL is correct but for the wrong reasons", and I quite like that.

You have Dunn fooled, though, which is why I've accepted going elsewhere.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do you really believe I would have trusted unwnd as the deep wolf? If I’m Scum I’ve played it a lot better. I would have used whatever clout I had left with you to try and direct the shot away from the Team, not towards my Partner. The Scum are in a horrendous position right now, where they have to win 2 1v1s to win. Nobody would willingly put themselves here.

good point. I do think since like me and andres were the only people who really suspected uwnd so I think maf may have tried to set them up as the deepwolf. I think reverse psychology isn't really your style but I haven't seen you play scum yet either.
I guess that implicates FL more. Starting to TL gera a bit more too but I'd be pissed if gera won as maf playing as he has been. Hope we can avoid another heated argument over a game.

I keep flip flopping I'm gonna step back and take a break for a day or so and hear what dunn thinks.

k, just be bad then.

[Andresvmb]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

This is a stretch even for you.

I'm just doing possibilities.

If you are scum, I am 100% correct.

What is going on with you? And if I’m Town? Have you stopped and considered that what you’re doing is ruinous if we’re actually the same alignment?

Doing “possibilities” is dumb. There’s 1 Scum left. And the options are extremely limited, from either one of our points of view. Commit. If you think I’m Scum vote me then.

[Flavor Leaf]

i'm like fucking confirmed town

[Flavor Leaf]

@Andres - You just saw me take out threats nonstop in a game, why would I make my wagon flip more townies on my own wagon?

Which is why Flavor is throwing shade to the only other person on their wagon. Again, I’m not buying it.

like why?

Why wouldn't I?

Consider me confirmed town for a second, give me 2 reasons why I wouldn't, andres.

No I get it. I understand why you would perceive the game the way that you are. I would just a different argument. I can’t be convinced about something if the only way to get me to see something is by literally knowing what you know. Does that make sense?

Andres defending my pushes against scum again

This is a stretch even for you.

I'm just doing possibilities.

If you are scum, I am 100% correct.

What is going on with you? And if I’m Town? Have you stopped and considered that what you’re doing is ruinous if we’re actually the same alignment?

Doing “possibilities” is dumb. There’s 1 Scum left. And the options are extremely limited, from either one of our points of view. Commit. If you think I’m Scum vote me then.

No it fucking isn't.

There's fucking one of two scum left. It's you or fucking Geraint. I'm going to case both of you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Don't give me that possibilities is dumb crap. I will fucking case both of you.

[Flavor Leaf]

what's going fucking on is I'm fucking obviously town and had a strong fucking game, and yet players who can't analyze games correctly are going to cost the game.

[Not_Mafia]

Do you really believe I would have trusted unwnd as the deep wolf? If I’m Scum I’ve played it a lot better. I would have used whatever clout I had left with you to try and direct the shot away from the Team, not towards my Partner. The Scum are in a horrendous position right now, where they have to win 2 1v1s to win. Nobody would willingly put themselves here.

good point. I do think since like me and andres were the only people who really suspected uwnd so I think maf may have tried to set them up as the deepwolf. I think reverse psychology isn't really your style but I haven't seen you play scum yet either.
I guess that implicates FL more. Starting to TL gera a bit more too but I'd be pissed if gera won as maf playing as he has been. Hope we can avoid another heated argument over a game.

I keep flip flopping I'm gonna step back and take a break for a day or so and hear what dunn thinks.

I was scumreading unwnd too, there's no way unwnd was being set up as a deepwolf

[Flavor Leaf]

Entire fucking back and forth of Unwnd trying to discredit me

Spoiler:

If your vote is on me I don't accept that as 'going elsewhere' lol

@Dunn - Can we fade Nora, Vig Nopoint?

or vice versa.

If your vote is on me I don't accept that as 'going elsewhere' lol

Makes sense you see a vote as an end all be all.

The one game we've been in together as town you were very adamant in your votes and obnoxiously so

You're bartering for time at this point

The one game we've been in together as town you were very adamant in your votes and obnoxiously so

You're bartering for time at this point

so, you can check other town games, i actively play games differently.

Which is why it's hilarious when people go "flavor does this as blah, does this as blah"

Still waiting on your shelly slot thoughts

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

Still waiting on your shelly slot thoughts

Not a priority today and I'm not sure where (correct if I'm wrong) you've insinuated we have partner equity together

I'm pushing for a Noraa/Nopoint fade/vig, while pushing you as scum.

Only reason it's equity is because you are scum here.

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

Nah, I'm super readable, I just find it incredibly poor for people to try to meta me as a be all end all after playing one or two games with me, as one alignment.

I already think meta is supplementary at best.

Right you're just an enigma and I'm a fool for attempting to reason with you carry on

Nah, I'm super readable, I just find it incredibly poor for people to try to meta me as a be all end all after playing one or two games with me, as one alignment.

I already think meta is supplementary at best.

OK Know that my townread on you is a disservice to myself and if we both happen to be alive tommorow I'm willing to destroy the thread if it means taking you down

And NopointScum was pushing me while ShellyScum was towning me.

That's a classic hyena.

[Andresvmb]

what's going fucking on is I'm fucking obviously town and had a strong fucking game, and yet players who can't analyze games correctly are going to cost the game.

And yet you’re pushing me so clearly you’re not immune to this nonsense then.