PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually didn't pick Spiffeh because of Xenoblade. It was a bold choice, though, but Alisae has a tendency to give up, and Mastina's better off being a lone scum and reacting, so that's why they weren't picked.

Bans happen too, of course.

Conceding is like folding in Poker

Yeah, I agree, and the only reason I even mentioned you and Mastina in that post is because I saw you as two other options to build a team around.

[Ydrasse]

i'm still very interested in hearing everyone's personal drafts tbh/reasons they would or wouldn't go with people

[Gloria Cleary]

All PTs are now public.

You were not supposed to release it without the redactions.

[mastina]

Subject: PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf - Moderator PT

Night 2 Actions

Dr Easy Bake kills

Mastina

Pichu.

So I assume this means I came close to being the N2 nightkill.

[Gloria Cleary]

Subject: PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf - Moderator PT

Night 2 Actions

Dr Easy Bake kills

Mastina

Pichu.

So I assume this means I came close to being the N2 nightkill.

You were the initial N2 NK then we changed it.

[mastina]

mastina will shoot herself in the foot I don't think there's any need to worry about her
She is obvtown every game but people always suspect her for some reason I don't get it lmao

I know, right???

And yet somehow people never learn.

[mastina]

I was shocked to have Mastina has us as her #1 scumread before Noraa even made a single post.

I think Mastina like .... spectated a bunch of my scum games :/

To some extent, yes, yes I did.

[Noraa]

I was shocked to have Mastina has us as her #1 scumread before Noraa even made a single post.

I think Mastina like .... spectated a bunch of my scum games :/

To some extent, yes, yes I did.

uh oh O_O

[Noraa]

Subject: PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf - Moderator PT

Night 2 Actions

Dr Easy Bake kills

Mastina

Pichu.

So I assume this means I came close to being the N2 nightkill.

yup you did!

[MURDERCAT]

Reading scum PTs when you had a decent/good game is very satisfying

[Ircher]

One. Flavor had half his roles be prs, so I aimed similarly for town but they are weak (yours) to useless (notscience hydra) to negative utlity (the vig) PRs.

That last part is very interesting!

Despite the vig missing both shots (including hitting a town PR), the vig actually played well. Both of those shots were people we were going to lim anyway, so while it may seem like the vig is negative utility (because they often shoot town), in truth, good vigs are really helpful as they eliminate suspects that would otherwise waste the town's attention.

(Also, for the record, full vig is actually considered a very strong role by most people.)

My play was obviously terrible this game, but I was drowning in pages to sift through, and this player list loved to make a lot of noise. I still stand on my PBE scum read, which has been my #1 pick since Day 1. Mastina is #2.

Your play may not have been the best, but it wasn't terrible. It's more that comparatively, your slot was a bit muddier compared to people like mastina. I was starting to (just a little) to come around on you; I'm not definite I would've still been keen on limming you if you hadn't been vigged.

if we lose i actually just have no one to blame but myself

(I would advise people not to be so hard on themselves. We all make mistakes; we all make wrong reads from time to time. Also, while you were a mason, in general, town pays much less attention to the reads of the dead versus the reads of the still living. So even if you express a strong read while you are living, there's a good chance town disregards it or regards it a little bit as soon as you die.)

Like I hold myself to these really high expectations because I'm like a perfectionist

Tip: Don't be. It's a ridiculously high standard, and it causes more stress than anything. Just focus on doing your best.

[Gloria Cleary]

Reading scum PTs when you had a decent/good game is very satisfying

Subject: Silent Star 3: Royalty - Conspirators

Gloria needs to realize that scum will typically not tailor their plan to tricking her

......except in the case where we know sussing her will always result in OMGUS

This is why your reasoning for scumreading my half of the hydra anyway is bad.

If someone is hard confibiasing on me and trying to get me killed when I’m town, I tend to think they’re scum unless other things make me think otherwise.

Plus, how much of the game do I really need to be following to hear Noraa tell me that you’re deathtunnelling us? Like that wasn’t exactly infrequent let alone subtle on your part.

[Noraa]

Gloria was actually the townier half of our hydra imo. I started breaking apart after a tiny bit.

[Gloria Cleary]

Reading scum PTs when you had a decent/good game is very satisfying

Subject: Silent Star 3: Royalty - Conspirators

Gloria needs to realize that scum will typically not tailor their plan to tricking her

......except in the case where we know sussing her will always result in OMGUS

This is why your reasoning for scumreading my half of the hydra anyway is bad.

If someone is hard confibiasing on me and trying to get me killed when I’m town, I tend to think they’re scum unless other things make me think otherwise.

Plus, how much of the game do I really need to be following to hear Noraa tell me that you’re deathtunnelling us? Like that wasn’t exactly infrequent let alone subtle on your part.

Subject: Silent Star 3: Royalty - Conspirators

she BoPs the entire playerlist and reads ppl that way, but only off their read on her specifically

Also this. I tend to be extremely omgussy irrespective of alignment.

[Gloria Cleary]

Gloria was actually the townier half of our hydra imo. I started breaking apart after a tiny bit.

Well, you’ll live much longer in all of your games if you stop doing the fake stuff. I rarely fake anything, whether it be AtE, derping, etc. I try to stick as close to the truth as possible with of course the exception of obviously not telling the truth about my alignment.

But you started getting a lot townier mid to late game, so if you can start off that way, you’ll be golden.

Anyway, I thoroughly enjoyed having you for a hydra partner. Next time I want us to not only be town but the most obvious townie in the playerlist.

[Gloria Cleary]

One. Flavor had half his roles be prs, so I aimed similarly for town but they are weak (yours) to useless (notscience hydra) to negative utlity (the vig) PRs.

That last part is very interesting!

Despite the vig missing both shots (including hitting a town PR), the vig actually played well. Both of those shots were people we were going to lim anyway, so while it may seem like the vig is negative utility (because they often shoot town), in truth, good vigs are really helpful as they eliminate suspects that would otherwise waste the town's attention.

(Also, for the record, full vig is actually considered a very strong role by most people.)

My play was obviously terrible this game, but I was drowning in pages to sift through, and this player list loved to make a lot of noise. I still stand on my PBE scum read, which has been my #1 pick since Day 1. Mastina is #2.

Your play may not have been the best, but it wasn't terrible. It's more that comparatively, your slot was a bit muddier compared to people like mastina. I was starting to (just a little) to come around on you; I'm not definite I would've still been keen on limming you if you hadn't been vigged.

if we lose i actually just have no one to blame but myself

(I would advise people not to be so hard on themselves. We all make mistakes; we all make wrong reads from time to time. Also, while you were a mason, in general, town pays much less attention to the reads of the dead versus the reads of the still living. So even if you express a strong read while you are living, there's a good chance town disregards it or regards it a little bit as soon as you die.)

Like I hold myself to these really high expectations because I'm like a perfectionist

Tip: Don't be. It's a ridiculously high standard, and it causes more stress than anything. Just focus on doing your best.

+1

Yes in what world is full vig a negative utility? And we were completely helpless against a strongwilled cop anything, so don’t tell me this setup wasn’t ridiculously townsided. Town had no negative utility roles and only two weak ones: N & C and SS enabler. Roaming doc + strongwilled goon cop + ungated vig + 3 mason ICs vs. 1 scum supersaint + 1 ailen? Not much of a contest there.

[Gloria Cleary]

N + C should be

informed townie

.

[MURDERCAT]

This is why your reasoning for scumreading my half of the hydra anyway is bad.

My SR was based basically entirely on Noraa and nothing was going to shake me off it

[Gloria Cleary]

This is why your reasoning for scumreading my half of the hydra anyway is bad.

My SR was based basically entirely on Noraa and nothing was going to shake me off it

But you also gave reasons for scumreading me, so I wanted to point out why they were not good reasons to scumread me in particular.

[Ircher]

You’re doing awesome Noraa. Next time you’re scum and hopefully the RNG gods will finally cut you a break and you won’t be for a long time after this - tell your scumteam not to hardbus you D1 if ever, seriously. I think that’s the REAL reason you guys lost, because of all of the associatives literally tying you to your buddies.

I think this is a good take. Some players have a naturally "scummy" meta and get suspected almost every Day 1. (That just so happens to be often the case for me.) But the thing is, those same players can sometimes also be the hardest players to lim. Anyway, Noraa had a strong early game here imo, and I also think she matches the description I wrote above. That would make her well suited for making it deep into games when she is scum, so bussing her early doesn't seem a very good strategy.

[Gloria Cleary]

This is why your reasoning for scumreading my half of the hydra anyway is bad.

My SR was based basically entirely on Noraa and nothing was going to shake me off it

This is why your reasoning for scumreading my half of the hydra anyway is bad.

My SR was based basically entirely on Noraa and nothing was going to shake me off it

But you also gave reasons for scumreading me, so I wanted to point out why they were not good reasons to scumread me in particular.

There is a joyful happiness that exudes from her posting like summer rain.

This post in particular.

It feels extremely pure and innocent.[/quote]

I believe that Noraa's tone this game is fake and over the top.

me wuz joking btw. me wills follow some rules

Don't use AtE. 100% scum indicative. you use that evilness to pocket me >:(
scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum scum
HMPH

u thought I would tunnel u. 200% scum indicative.
town!me has been proven to be able to hunt scum!alisaes.
tell the truth. ur scum again aren't you?

back for round two of Lets break Noraa's heart

NOPE. NOT IN MY GOOD CHRISTIAN HOUSEHOLD(im not even christian but like sh)

VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: VOTE: Double the trouble

*raises my eyebrow*

O_o
o_O
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
me shalls give rvs TR lollipops to u two. I expects green apple TR lollipops back tho and they must be green apple or blue raspberry!

For your consideration, two of Noraa's town isos:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Skim through posts 1-500 in each of those games. Notice how much more exaggerated Noraa is here?

Now you might just look at those posts and think it is within Noraa's normal range, but look at page 2 in her iso.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12398736

Nothing in page 2 of the iso is anything like these first posts, suggesting to me that the tone is fake and she is having trouble keeping it up. Noraa is even aware of this and points it out:

The baby talk will be back tomorrow when I'm less sleepy

[/spoiler]

Spoiler: 2 - Response to Pressure

Noraa has trouble making up cases as scum. Look at these posts in death curse (links rather than quotes due to length):
8962
9127
9233

Now compare to the case that Noraa has on me in this game:
2513
2523

For full context, the following posts are:
2514
2524

In both cases, there is no actual analysis happening. Noraa is linking a lot of quotes, providing a superficial description of the events, and claiming that I am scum off them without actually providing any reasoning behind her claims just as she did in my last scum game with her.

Spoiler: 3 - Gloria

Before I begin this section on Gloria, it is important to point out that I am

not

making a case based on activity here. I believe that Gloria has had RL stuff going on and I don't use arguments like that because, as I said with BM, I think it's kinda shitty. However, given Gloria's lack of activity you would not expect her to 1. be particularly invested in the game and 2. have strong opinions about me. However, there are a number of instances that suggest to me that Gloria is in a scum PT and is aware of certain pushes that need to be made (currently, this refers to attacking me, in an attempt to reduce the influence that I am having on the game as I am correct about Noraa scum).

First, some evidence that Gloria shouldn't be very aware of the gamestate:

Pichu, Gloria isnt feeling well or something.

She's been talking to me a little bit about the game but methinks she's either sick or sad.

Apparently they haven't been talking very much about the game. Fair enough. Now let's look at the Gloria posts that come after this.

VOTE: Murderkitty

I don’t like the way he’s been pushing us, it feels very disingenuous to me. He sees Noraa as easy miselimbait and I feel didn’t engage me in good faith.

DT shading us for my not posting enough is also bas but they might actually believe it. I don’t trust murderkitty and how he’s been trying to drive a miselim without following up on the answers to the questions he asked of me. What happened to that MC? Why did you ask me those questions, then fail to follow up on them? Why didn’t you ask me to explain or elaborate on those reads? You just dropped it altogether. I want to know why and I’m not moving my vote until you explain this.

This is a strong reaction for someone barely following the game and against someone who Noraa had not really been pushing at all, no?

Well we are a hydra, so are you saying you’re townreading me?

Well I’m really trying. If you recall I think it was either my first or second post to LLD in Death Curse was I expect to be generally useless early game and I wasn’t going through that rl thing at that time. I’m not good at larges. I get lost with the sheer number of players I have to sort, pages to read etc.

I still like Ydrasee because she’s engaging a slot and Pichu and I think this is probably town! MT we’re seeing. Wrt BM I did like their sincerity but as I said before I have no meta on them and if Noraa’s right about them being TPR then it’s obviously a bad wagon.

I’m kind’ve wondering why DT has ignored my posts about my rl issues and how I even said that Pooky can confirm I’m having a rough time of it. @DT, did you just skip those posts because you called my lack of activity scum indicative despite my posts literally telling you that Pooky can verify I was telling the truth about that, so why the unwarrented shade on me for that?

This to me feels like someone who is more aware of the gamestate than they are letting on. Once again, I am not suggesting that Gloria isn't dealing with real stuff. I am suggesting she is getting info from a scum PT and has an agenda that she is pushing. There is no effort, for example, to look through my iso after accusing me to see what she has missed. To me, this is behavior from someone who is over-informed and pushing something on the thread, not a townie who is trying to get back into the game.

I may not be the greatest mafia player ever, but I know when I've caught scum. I let Pooky and mastina run the show D1 and we missed. Let me take my shot.

VOTE: Polar Bear Express[/quote]

So, I was debunking “Spoiler 3” because none of that ever makes me scum.

[Gloria Cleary]

You’re doing awesome Noraa. Next time you’re scum and hopefully the RNG gods will finally cut you a break and you won’t be for a long time after this - tell your scumteam not to hardbus you D1 if ever, seriously. I think that’s the REAL reason you guys lost, because of all of the associatives literally tying you to your buddies.

I think this is a good take. Some players have a naturally "scummy" meta and get suspected almost every Day 1. (That just so happens to be often the case for me.) But the thing is, those same players can sometimes also be the hardest players to lim. Anyway, Noraa had a strong early game here imo, and I also think she matches the description I wrote above. That would make her well suited for making it deep into games when she is scum, so bussing her early doesn't seem a very good strategy.

Yeah, I think that’s the only reason she lost in Death Curse so I think our team tried the opposite strategy here, which was decent since it’s counterintuitive to hard townread your buddies. Most scum don’t tend to do that but I have seen it happen once before but it’s rare.

[MURDERCAT]

But you also gave reasons for scumreading me, so I wanted to point out why they were not good reasons to scumread me in particular.

Yeah but I was looking through a lens of this slot is scum so it would be totally different if it wasn't a hydra slot

[Gloria Cleary]

But you also gave reasons for scumreading me, so I wanted to point out why they were not good reasons to scumread me in particular.

Yeah but I was looking through a lens of this slot is scum so it would be totally different if it wasn't a hydra slot

Well, while I’m not obvtown in every game, more often in most larges which I on whole suck at, not. if you want an example of bleeding obvtown me, ISO me in Royalty. I was off the charts obvtown in that, much more so than in Death Curse imo.

[mastina]

Reading scum PTs when you had a decent/good game is very satisfying

Indeed.