TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[unwnd]

I'm parsing the information and wagon in front of me and sorta biding my time

[Hopkirk]

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot.

i'm very concerned with their team

as much as i am with the slot right now.

can you elaborate on this without breaking any rules? i thought i knew what you meant before but now I'm a bit confused

hm
1- i cannot be specific without rule breaking
2- ask your teammates about the parts where i can't be specific
3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team
5- you should be able to work out why i think there's something weird going on with that team RELATED to the fact that UNWND said all of his team are scumreading me
6- this is not related to who is in their team. the thing about menal is 100% separate to this
7- this does not directly relate to the game
8- i get the impression their team has some kind of a problem with my team

i can't really be more specific due to rules. ask your teammates

i have a picture of what unwnd scum would play like even though ive never played with unwnd scum before and its why im townreading that slot, but yeah its not exactly a scientific way of playing

well, go on then, share with the class!

unwnd as a person complains a lot about site culture and holds the opinion that scum suck because they put in minimal effort and scumhunting sucks these days because scum aren't even willing to play properly.

as a result i suspect unwnd would be the scum player that puts up reasonable effort in actual actively doing stuff

but this recent hopkirk case at first is complete cheeks and lazy even if it might be right, it would be right for the wrong reasons probably. there are a lot of better ways to attack hopkirk than introducing your case with a ramble about site culture and ending with a talk about buzzwords. idk maybe im crazy but i feel almost as if unwnd as scum would put in a bit more effort in digging up quotes and running a pbp analysis or something on casing hopkirk purely because i think unwnd sees that type of scumplay as very strong against how he perceives site culture meta.

but this is a very illformed thought because i have no idea of how unwnd actually plays lmao


also forming a townbloc without hopkirk or unwnd's consent as they crossvote each other is very much intentional

honestly, site meta / culture comments aside, that reasoning vibes with me because it would be such a lame fucking push from unwnd as scum that would be so unnecessary for them to do, don't really know why they would paint a target on themselves without a real case to back it up. like idt u really have to have an idea of unwnd's scumplay to think it seems town-motivated rather than scum-motivated. it would be one thing if like a solid towncore was assembling that scum needed to break up + start spewing about deepwolves, but that wasn't really the gamestate at all

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot. i'm very concerned with their team as much as i am with the slot right now.

i think ur just mad bro

Just to scare you guys I am capable of faking laziness as scum and making posts like this (and bad cases)

But Ceph is right this is not the game

i hate that time makes me agree with these three posts that it's

more

likely to come from town than scum. shit tier cases and REFUSING TO FUCKING ANSWER A STRAIGHT QUESTION AND ACTUALLY HAVING THE BAD FAITH FUCKING OUTLOOK TO SAY 'NAH I DON'T NEED TO ANSWER' WHEN I'VE MADE IT CLEAR I NEED THAT ANSWER TO READ YOU is shitty play because it's outright uncooperative. this is a team game. until you refused to answer that i was going to get jokey annoyed then you made me actually legit annoyed with you.

gonna be level with you i don't think scum look scummy this game. i just doubt they look towny.

id love to hear more about this hypothesis. and why is "this game" different from a normal game?

quality of the playerlist and the fact I don't feel particularly good about any scumreads.

obviously scum players always play to be townread, and a lot of the game can be won by checking whether things people are doing are conventionally towny (they think they'll be townread for it) or actually legitimately towny (more sincere / the person may not realise what they're doing is towny sometimes).

nobody is like..failing that objective. I think everyone here feels entitled to be townread to some extent?

i think this pov comes more from town? i can see where it's coming from and the idea of struggling with trs due to having too many townreads feels like the kind of thing that's more likely to come from town than scum? but also i don't really see what scum is pushing unless they're either pushing or bussing agar and just want that to tip over? i don't really see a strat from scum in terms of wagons here because there's been nothing for so long?

[Cephrir]

3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team

i could be misremembering but didn't we like specifically establish that he said 'nearly all' or something like that

[hercule]

hercule when ur there can u talk to me about spf and her reads

kkoba says spf is supposed to have some god tier reads soo do you agree whats up idk

pedit: 5

sure, i think i've said most of her reads to this point

fwiw all 4 of us have been focusing our reading /discussion efforts on one of the other games atm (we all flipped town, it's just the specifics of that game have lent itself to our attention, don't think I can/should explain much more than that)

so last thing I discussed with spf was to ask her to sanity check our towncore, but I told her it's not urgent and she said she would do it over the next couple days

okay i was going to ask about recent developments like her thoughts on xtoxm now and towncore lmao

but i guess we can table it

also if koba is seems to be a mega spf fan as well so i was wondering if spf is supposed to be a super scumhunter or what

what are your basic thoughts on xtoxm, are you voting him because you are sheeping me or do you think he's scum too.

I give her about equal credence to myself. As far as this game goes, I am spending the most time reading and analyzing it and will mainly use her feedback to bounce off a bit, check my bias, push me in other directions. Same with any of my team, it's just good feedback. I'm voting Xtoxm because I have them in my POE at the time and I was down to start aligning with someone. A little surprised it took off so quickly but not enough to spook me too much, maybe the last 3 are bit suspicious with regards to timing (ceph/abr/titus), but I think I saw someone make a comment about liking the wagon (maybe the worst?) and at the time the 5 people voting all seemed decent bets to be town.

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot.

i'm very concerned with their team

as much as i am with the slot right now.

can you elaborate on this without breaking any rules? i thought i knew what you meant before but now I'm a bit confused

hm
1- i cannot be specific without rule breaking
2- ask your teammates about the parts where i can't be specific
3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team
5- you should be able to work out why i think there's something weird going on with that team RELATED to the fact that UNWND said all of his team are scumreading me
6- this is not related to who is in their team. the thing about menal is 100% separate to this
7- this does not directly relate to the game
8- i get the impression their team has some kind of a problem with my team

i can't really be more specific due to rules. ask your teammates

mmm okay I think you're being a bit obtuse here. He said Menal and MariaR agreed with his points, and implied amph and beeboy had no opinion or didn't read. I'll ask my teammates and see if they understand what you're saying.

[Cephrir]

how can we see a strat from scum in terms of wagons when we don't have any flipped scum

[hercule]

I guess my main takeaway on Xtoxm is that they are LHF but they're not particularly towny LHF so seems as good a place as any to vote. Maybe there's an argument that we won't get much information from the flip? But I don't typically give that kind of argument much credence, just vote slots that are more likely to be scum.

[Hopkirk]

duck
IV, dgb, unwnd
Dunnstral (I like him but I'm sheeping)
Oka, Cephrir, Hercule
Dannflor, Flakes, A50, Ythan
Titus, AGar, Hopkirk
JacksonVirgo, ABR
Xtoxm

I'm probably wrong on someone in the 4p core, they're my adorable weak town tonereads

actually this reads list feels weird when i take it with the thing you posted about struggling to get scumreads that i thought was townie since it feels like you very much do have scumreads...

can you explain what each person did that makes you want to think they're town - especially for the bottom 6. just like a single sentence/point is fine since you just said it felt like there was reasons to like everyone and... i'm not sure i get that impression from the couple of pages of posting from you here?
also interested in your reads on Flakes/A50 and why they're there. I'm assuming that's around a town-lean?

AGar, you didn't think I'd let that fabricated-by-scum case on me slide, did you???

I'm amazed you chose to engage me at all based on how you've been playing this game. No one south of your townlist gets attention. I feel special.

@Hercule, re 1392:

Alright. Meh, but alright.

Re: DGB, 1398

: Confidence wasn't just limited to RVS. You haven't given any reads that impress me, sorry. The fact that you brought up Hopkirk posting "game avoidance" despite a mountain of evidence to the otherwise nullified your point and was a sketch as hell mistruth to bring into things. Your limited interactions are a red flag because you show no attempt to actually sort the people in the null bin, specifically. That you've refused to engage with scumreads is just another fact that I noted, and I can't help that you were extremely blatant with your selective engagement. The naked readlist wasn't a crux, was just an observation that in kind with everything else, it stinks. Your votes have been mostly lifeless, you haven't tried to rally the troops or even mention those folks, and you haven't tried to sort out any of your nulls. Can't help that the facts are the facts.

to clarify, which of this is the bit that's the reason for not liking DGB? obviously you're saying a lot of things that you don't really like, but i'm not sure if you're pointing specifically to one or two of them as very specifically the scum indicative ones? could you make it a little clearer for me pls

Ythan
Almost50
Cephrir
innocentvillager
Hopkirk
Dannflor
hercule
OkaPoka
Dunnstral

townreads in no specific order. i'll sort through all the isos on saturday

Why Ceph & Ythan? (Sell me these and I may have a solve)

Ceph - sheeping townreads from my townreads because they haven't pinged me, a lot of my TRs have them as strong town, and i can't even separate auro/ceph from the one game i've played with ceph so don't remember enough for a solid meta read.
Ythan - early game tone. mostly from their interactions with hercule. it didn't give the sense of someone who was worried about herc's read on them when ythan was pushing/interacting with herc. had a kind of fearless feeling (from both sides) where they were pushing something it felt like they believed and not especially caring how it looked when they were 1v1ing? gave kind of the impression of a 1v1 where they're more concerned with attacking the other person than looking good, or getting the other person votedout

[the worst]

so is it likely that AGar is town based on wagon movement? has that been discussed yet?

no, please do tell ~~
or is this wiki level VCA?

EBWOP: The patently false part was "agar was actually doing content."

I was very much not really doing content when I was run up.

you had like three or four posts and I thought they were fine / even towny? given how early in the game it was that definitely constitutes doing content relative to us who just shitpost and yell about nothing for the first few pages.

this is a really absurd thing to nitpick, what do you think of literally anything else happening?

Firebringer thinks Dan and Ythan are scum.

can warmpuppy expand at all?, Dann is in a weak spot of mine (but I don't like.....TOWNREAD him, I'm just super aware I am not going to get him yet) and Ythan seems pretty widely townread but is so, so far under the radar

so basically we are wagoning xtoxm for being wrong and then kind of moving the goalposts instead of admitting to being wrong (15-20 in his iso, particularly 19-20 being scummy posts)? at least that's what i'm getting from it?

this is like a third of the reason I'm on him

so basically we are wagoning xtoxm for being wrong and then kind of moving the goalposts instead of admitting to being wrong (15-20 in his iso, particularly 19-20 being scummy posts)? at least that's what i'm getting from it?

yeah i guess that isn't technically incorrect

although wagoneers are extrapolating a bit in saying that him moving the goalposts is a result of him wanting to have a townread and then making up a reason for it

this is better

my read has dipped because he clearly wants to be read a certain way (apply Ola's "dgb fakes reads" logic to like, every second thing agar posts) and that makes me feel like just defaulting to townleaning him off early tonal stuff is dangerous

I wasn't completely joking when I said he felt performative

I'd be interested in the lilith case but I understand if you don't feel that's the most productive use of your time

"Case" is an interesting choice of word
it's probably more of a very very defiant toneread

also spf has to be related to saudade right

[unwnd]

i hate that time makes me agree with these three posts that it's more likely to come from town than scum. shit tier cases and REFUSING TO FUCKING ANSWER A STRAIGHT QUESTION AND ACTUALLY HAVING THE BAD FAITH FUCKING OUTLOOK TO SAY 'NAH I DON'T NEED TO ANSWER' WHEN I'VE MADE IT CLEAR I NEED THAT ANSWER TO READ YOU is shitty play because it's outright uncooperative. this is a team game. until you refused to answer that i was going to get jokey annoyed then you made me actually legit annoyed with you.

Quit being sour grapes. I rewrote my thoughts a bit earlier. I don't see the point in dragging the dynamic of what my team says. Your only argument provided is that I fake an interaction because of Mena which is just preposterous.

[unwnd]

Yeah sure, I'll play hardball.

I want to take away from the things I said in my #1250. Not repeating myself but this point to me is very integral to my thought, and generally speaking I do maintain that I don't like highlighting specific posts and instead create a general picture. Hopkirk's demeanor on the surface seems OK, but when it comes to aggression it all becomes merely proving a point. I believe that the former is a merely a veil and something he uses to establish tonal presence in the game, which is something I very much expect scum to do. It's one thing to just be a happy/friendly guy but the way he uses said friendliness just gives me the absolute creeps. Compare his earlygame to now and it's like he was tired of putting up the front. The poking and observing he was making in relation to what was going on all feels manufacted, such as the way he navigates coming around to Hercule (you can look at ISO if you want).

Actions speak louder than words, and maybe Hopkirk is aware of that. I think Hopkirk display a lot of self-consciousness if you dig into the way he words his posts to people as well. Just a ton of 'oh haha, was joking' or a necessity to over-explain an interaction by adding two more unprompted posts. How do I make this more clear? When I'm scum and I know I don't really believe what I'm saying, the best thing I can do is pretend it matters to me. Yet, referring back to what I said before. What does Hopkirk really have to show for his activity early on? Why is he not here and keeping up the same pace. I'm sure there will be a hipfire response from Hopkirk saying 'I'm just busy! Your case on me sucked! Grrrr' but I think my point absolutely stands. The pressure is on himself and I think he's playing a game he hates to be in. Sure, call that a stretch by why would me calling him out with a shitpush just boil his blood so much? Probably because scum feel indignant towards townies and don't wanna feel like they're catching onto them. Is this confbiased on my end? Maybe a little, but it should make you all realize that Hopkirk is only looking out for himself and everything he did earlier on was fake, and time has only solidified that stance.

This instead Hopkirk.

[unwnd]

Also, why do you say things like 'I needed that to read you' when you've said you begrudgingly townread me despite the shitpush? Seems like you already decided your own narrative lol

[Hopkirk]

that screams of frustrated townie who is like "wtf is this terrible push plz eat deez nuts"

gosh, you wouldn't be trying to buddy me and/or be on a team full of people who've had at least 1/2 of their member be in most/all of my recent games would you?

I think Hopkirk is really scum and the more people keep calling him town the more it brings me to action

i've seen 1616, i'm going to respond to this after my amazing rebuttle to 1616 in my next post. i hope you're all ready for it...

[Hopkirk]

Yeah sure, I'll play hardball.

I want to take away from the things I said in my #1250. Not repeating myself but this point to me is very integral to my thought, and generally speaking I do maintain that I don't like highlighting specific posts and instead create a general picture. Hopkirk's demeanor on the surface seems OK, but when it comes to aggression it all becomes merely proving a point. I believe that the former is a merely a veil and something he uses to establish tonal presence in the game, which is something I very much expect scum to do. It's one thing to just be a happy/friendly guy but the way he uses said friendliness just gives me the absolute creeps. Compare his earlygame to now and it's like he was tired of putting up the front. The poking and observing he was making in relation to what was going on all feels manufacted, such as the way he navigates coming around to Hercule (you can look at ISO if you want).

Actions speak louder than words, and maybe Hopkirk is aware of that. I think Hopkirk display a lot of self-consciousness if you dig into the way he words his posts to people as well. Just a ton of 'oh haha, was joking' or a necessity to over-explain an interaction by adding two more unprompted posts. How do I make this more clear? When I'm scum and I know I don't really believe what I'm saying, the best thing I can do is pretend it matters to me. Yet, referring back to what I said before.

What does Hopkirk really have to show for his activity early on?

Why is he not here and keeping up the same pace.

I'm sure there will be a hipfire response from Hopkirk saying 'I'm just busy!

Your case on me sucked! Grrrr' but I think my point absolutely stands. The pressure is on himself and I think he's playing a game he hates to be in. Sure, call that a stretch by why would me calling him out with a shitpush just boil his blood so much? Probably because scum feel indignant towards townies and don't wanna feel like they're catching onto them. Is this confbiased on my end? Maybe a little, but it should make you all realize that Hopkirk is only looking out for himself and everything he did earlier on was fake, and time has only solidified that stance.

lol, get a job

[implosion]

A018239: Primorial primes: primes of the form 1 + product of first k primes, for some k.

2, 3, 7, 31, 211, 2311, 200560490131, 1719620105458406433483340568317543019584575635895742560438771105058321655238562613083979651479555788009994557822024565226932906295208262756822275663694111

Link

Vote Count 1.13

Xtoxm

(8): OkaPoka, hercule, the worst, DrippingGoofball, Dunnstral, Cephrir, Albert B. Rampage, Titus

AGar

(2): Dannflor, Ythan

Titus

(2): AGar, innocentvillager

JacksonVirgo

(1): Winter Flakes

hercule

(1): JacksonVirgo

Hopkirk

(1): unwnd

unwnd

(1): Hopkirk

DrippingGoofball

(1): Almost50

Not Voting

(1): Xtoxm

With 18 alive, it takes 10 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for January 29, 5:00 PM PST, in (expired on 2021-01-29 21:00:00).

[unwnd]

A rousing course of action, King Hopkirk

Nay, I am only a peasant

May I shine your shoes with my spit?

[the worst]

3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team

i could be misremembering but didn't we like specifically establish that he said 'nearly all' or something like that

I still feel like this is a really sloppy misstep to make for scum!unwnd and doesn't actually lend any credibility to their push on you

duck
IV, dgb, unwnd
Dunnstral (I like him but I'm sheeping)
Oka, Cephrir, Hercule
Dannflor, Flakes, A50, Ythan
Titus, AGar, Hopkirk
JacksonVirgo, ABR
Xtoxm

I'm probably wrong on someone in the 4p core, they're my adorable weak town tonereads

actually this reads list feels weird when i take it with the thing you posted about struggling to get scumreads that i thought was townie since it feels like you very much do have scumreads...

can you explain what each person did that makes you want to think they're town - especially for the bottom 6. just like a single sentence/point is fine since you just said it felt like there was reasons to like everyone and... i'm not sure i get that impression from the couple of pages of posting from you here?
also interested in your reads on Flakes/A50 and why they're there. I'm assuming that's around a town-lean?

god I feel like I've already roundabout done this but I also recall you being a fan of making people do work so yeet

dann, flakes, A50, Ythan are there because all four of them have given me underwhelming tonal townpings. I feel like Dann hasn't been suffering silliness in a way that detracts from his ability to pocket. I feel like Flakes has defaulted to prickly & earnest before assertive which pings me as coming from a genuine mindset. I think A50 is drawing an absurd amount of attention to himself in a game which he might be able to deepwolf which is a very strange things to do as scum, but I don't understand his reads at all and he's not actually doing anything technically towny. Ythan seemed to respond kinda fine to pressure earlier and has slipped into a bunch of townpools so :shrug:

JV I'm legitimately struggling to townread but I also don't really outright scumread them atp? like I don't really pick up what they're putting down but I'm also just having a really hard time parsing it.

ABR I give exactly 0 fucks about but he seems really widely townread???

Xtoxm is the only person who I think is like, overtly scummy and it's really only because his Titus read felt too flourishy and underconsidered. Even then I'm surprised by that because he's technically a strong scum player, and he clearly wanted the read to look good.

Think of that readlist as an effort to solve bottom-down and I think it makes a lot more sense.

[hercule]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

[the worst]

lol, get a job

worth the wait

[unwnd]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

I know it's my fight but just saying scum finding roundabout reasons to justify their actions is more true than town. I think Hopkirk came up with the excuse of TM shit because it sounded good and nothing else

[Hopkirk]

I think Hopkirk is really scum and the more people keep calling him town the more it brings me to action

so now that i've done my amazing response to 1616 this & his previous stuff is pretty much an outright scumclaim from unwnd.
unwnd says in 1616 that i'm scummy because of reasons including me not keeping the same pace during the 1 hour i can spend on mafia during work evenings as the day where i spent 5 hours in the thread.
shocking discovery though - unwnd claims his initial case on me had to be quick due to lack of time! it's almost like he's claiming scum since we can see his belief that not being able to play every minute of the day is scum indicative... so there's literally no possible explanation he can possibly have for not making his case on me at the beginning since that would mean he wasn't able to play then due to time, which he's established is scum indicative. nice job revealing yourself lol

- actually i'm putting my response to 1616 in a different post because that's not going to be a jokey tone

[the worst]

I'm more Peta than SPF there - I get what SPF is saying but it feels like a really peculiar nitpick and I have no idea how anyone isn't seeing what happened there

All the same I'm just gonna go back to treating Hopkirk as town and seeing how that goes for me

[the worst]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

I know it's my fight but just saying scum finding roundabout reasons to justify their actions is more true than town. I think Hopkirk came up with the excuse of TM shit because it sounded good and nothing else

hard maybe

interested in seeing what else you're seeing with Hoppy

[unwnd]

I think Hopkirk is really scum and the more people keep calling him town the more it brings me to action

so now that i've done my amazing response to 1616 this & his previous stuff is pretty much an outright scumclaim from unwnd.
unwnd says in 1616 that i'm scummy because of reasons including me not keeping the same pace during the 1 hour i can spend on mafia during work evenings as the day where i spent 5 hours in the thread.
shocking discovery though -

unwnd claims his initial case on me had to be quick due to lack of time! it's almost like he's claiming scum since we can see his belief that not being able to play every minute of the day is scum indicative... so there's literally no possible explanation he can possibly have for not making his case on me at the beginning since that would mean he wasn't able to play then due to time, which he's established is scum indicative. nice job revealing yourself lol

- actually i'm putting my response to 1616 in a different post because that's not going to be a jokey tone

That's just not even true, I said my case was in fear of me losing the thought, and that the time was in reference to letting you do things before I was willing to push further on it. You didn't, so here we are.

[unwnd]

If you think I'm that easy to sink and that I'm just another shitpusher

You're in for a rude awakening lol

[hercule]

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

I know it's my fight but just saying scum finding roundabout reasons to justify their actions is more true than town. I think Hopkirk came up with the excuse of TM shit because it sounded good and nothing else

so yeah I pushed back that scum could be just as annoyed as town, (well we are presuming his gripe to be a true thought and thus NAI), but spf's point was more that to get to the endpoint where he got would require more hoops to jump through from a mafia mindset than a town. I really don't know if I can keep talking about this though because it's all based around an assumption my team made about what hopkirk is talking about that he can't talk about so like - lmao. i'm over it