Micro 1010: Divide and Conquer: Round 2 - Game Over!

[NorwegianboyEE]

Bingle's gone suspiciously quiet, makes me feel we hit scum here.

[NorwegianboyEE]

My read for their teammate is one of Lukewarm/Dunnstral.

[Bingle]

N_M i hope for the sake of your general well-being that you hammered scum here.

Positioning, just like when he suggested I was not expecting no to be willing to hammer.

Lim norwee and hopkirk, either order, and town wins. 100% guaranteed.

[NorwegianboyEE]

In fact, just lim Lukewarm. Dunnstrall sometimes be acting this lazy and uninspired in their towngames, but Lukewarms actively opposed the Bingle elimination and advanced their agenda. If Bingle!scum he needs to go.

[Lukewarm]

Currently GuiltyLion, Marci, and Hopkirk are all off of the Hopkirk and the Bingle wagons.

So to each of you, do you think Hopkirk and Bingle are TvT?

Do you think someone else would be a better Day 1 elim?

What makes you think they are scummier then hopkirk/Bingle?

If you are wrong, and it is a minelim, do you think it would give us more information then a flip on Hop or Bingle, and if so why?

This feels like a weird post - I just stated in my last post that I'm not really feeling TvT from Hopkirk/Bingle, but I haven't yet had time to feel comfortable throwing a vote down especially since there's been so much action between the two of them. It's also odd to me that you're asking Hopkirk these questions??

What is weird about it?

I suggested a plan, 6 out of the 9 players were already doing that, I wanted to get a better understanding about the 3 people who were not on board.

I asked Hopkirk to see how he would respond, and honestly him avoiding voting his top scum read is a bit suspicious imo. I wanted him to state for the thread why he was not voting for Bingle, because that is for us to analyze once Bingle flips.

[Lukewarm]

In fact, just lim Lukewarm. Dunnstrall sometimes be acting this lazy and uninspired in their towngames, but Lukewarms actively opposed the Bingle elimination and advanced their agenda. If Bingle!scum he needs to go.

Actively opposed? Pretty sure I helped convince people to vote for him lol.

Yes I think Hopkirk is is more likely to be the scum out of the two of them. No I did not actively oppose his elimination.

[GuiltyLion]

I explained what's weird about it, you're assuming I'm "not on board" when I had already suggested I *would* be on board. And it makes no sense to ask Hopkirk why he thinks another scumread "is scummier than Hopkirk/Bingle" or whether his own flip would be informative. Just feels like thoughtless busywork questioning all around, especially since you claim to TR marcistar and myself as well

[Lukewarm]

I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.

Would you agree to a vote on you given the same premise?

I personally think that everyone in the thread should move their vote to either Hopkirk or Bingle. I just don't see them being TvT

VOTE: Hopkirk

marci vote Bingle with us

huh, would it be fine to?

I say go for it. I don't really forsee anyone other then hopkirk or Bingle going though at this point, so if that is your scum read between the two of them

I can clearly show where I convinced both Marci and Bingle to vote for bingle, so you were literally spewing lies rn

[GuiltyLion]

I wanted him to state for the thread why he was not voting for Bingle, because that is for us to analyze once Bingle flips.

Like this in general is pretty manipulative framing, there are reasons to not vote someone if you don't want the day to end or want to see where other players are thinking their vote might go. How am I to look at this and see it as anything but an attempt to further poison Hopkirk's standing on a town!Bingle flip?

[Hopkirk]

Bingle isn't my top scumread.

[GuiltyLion]

especially since in the hood you gave pretty good reasons as to why you didn't personally think Bingle was likely to be scum, but then here you're championing eliminating him ASAP by telling everyone to vote between the two of them?? Do you see how that raises yellow flags for me?

[Lukewarm]

I explained what's weird about it, you're assuming I'm "not on board" when I had already suggested I *would* be on board. And it makes no sense to ask Hopkirk why he thinks another scumread "is scummier than Hopkirk/Bingle" or whether his own flip would be informative. Just feels like thoughtless busywork questioning all around, especially since you claim to TR marcistar and myself as well

I like to understand the positions of people I Town read just as much as the people I scum read.

I wanted to ask hopkirk point blank why he was not voting for bingle, his top scum read, and force him to come up with a reason why his vote was not there?

Asking scum reads to why they are or are not doing something is a key way to dig into their motivations, to check to see if they have proper town!motivations/if they have a genuine motivation to do things.

I think Hopkirks responses to my questions will be nice things to analyze during the Night / start of Day 2.

[Lukewarm]

I wanted him to state for the thread why he was not voting for Bingle, because that is for us to analyze once Bingle flips.

Like this in general is pretty manipulative framing, there are reasons to not vote someone if you don't want the day to end or want to see where other players are thinking their vote might go. How am I to look at this and see it as anything but an attempt to further poison Hopkirk's standing on a town!Bingle flip?

Those are valid reasons, and I was wanting to see if those were the reasons he gave.

Picking at peoples motivations is a key way to get a feel for whether or not their actions and motivations line up or if you think their actions are genuine.

[Lukewarm]

** motivations are genuine

[Lukewarm]

especially since in the hood you gave pretty good reasons as to why you didn't personally think Bingle was likely to be scum, but then here you're championing eliminating him ASAP by telling everyone to vote between the two of them?? Do you see how that raises yellow flags for me?

Only if you are not reading my iso .....

I clearly explained why I was okay with a Bingle flip, plus Bingle himself said it was an okay plan and even (essentially) hammered himself.

[GuiltyLion]

bruh I've played mafia for 5+ years you don't need to say things like "Picking at peoples motivations is a key way to get a feel for whether or not their actions and motivations line up or if you think their actions are genuine.". My point is that your questions specifically were generic and bad and demonstrated no attempt to infer my thinking from what I had literally just posted.

[Hopkirk]

Current takes from me and my alts
Hopkirk- i want to keep pushing bingle as much as because he's annoying me because as scumreads
Sarah- so like... scum don't shitpush this hard in practice so you're wrong on Bingle!scum which makes NM much more susssss... plus like vanders is obvscum lol. you blind or something
(real name redacted)- I'm not really sure. I'm town on Norway/Marc and Vanders is definitely pinging me right now. I want to look more at him. A lot of his takes feel weird right now.
Hoppy - Bingle is a big meanie but probably isn't scum unless small pool. ugh i really need to solve dunn's alignment to solve this
Hoctic with a simulated hectic - Norway is town, remember what i told you about his WIM
Hipkork - lOl ReAdS, sToP tRyHaRdInG nOoB!

I think you can see pretty clearly here I'm not sure on how it'll go. Luke making comments like 'Hop must be not voting Bingle because scum' rather than because I'm clearly trying to solve bingle (eg when I just said he was 50% scum at best). I didn't vote bingle because I'm unsure and didn't want his hammered. You're insane if you think 'town hop wouldn't put his vote on someone he's scumleaming but sorting' when there literal intent to hammer. Are you not reading my posts luke, or just ignoring them?

Jingle associative
- Jingle/Dunn likely don't both commit to a shitpush when they know I'm going to react badly to it. Dunn I'd say is less likely.
- Vanders probably less likely from the vote.
- Marc I'm Tring
- GL pushed back against bingle

It's just luke. On a Luke townflip then Bingle would be a townlean. The opposite isn't true. That's why I'm voting Luke, but also considering Vanders.

[Hopkirk]

Luke is basically pushing a bingle exile with the intent to push me on a townflip which makes Bingle/Luke only super likely if they didn't see any other choice/wanted another lair of wifom in it so idk about that

[Lukewarm]

I think that either Bingle is scum who tricked me, or , (more likely imo), Bingle is town being ignored because too many people are suspicious of him, and this will confirm him as town, meaning we no longer need to worry about any of his posts having a nefarious motive behind them.

I still think we should have gone with Hopkirk today, which is why I never moved my vote to Bingle, but I think a Bingle vote is the single best miselim possible to lead to a town win down the line.

I am playing to win, and putting an either or choice between bingle and hopkirk seemed like the best way for town to win imo

[GuiltyLion]

and if Bingle/Hop is in fact TvT then all of your posts and actions are setting us straight on a path to two straight miseliminations. If you really thought Bingle was town you should not have been goading marcistar/Bingle to eliminate there today

[Lukewarm]

bruh I've played mafia for 5+ years you don't need to say things like "Picking at peoples motivations is a key way to get a feel for whether or not their actions and motivations line up or if you think their actions are genuine.". My point is that your questions specifically were generic and bad and demonstrated no attempt to infer my thinking from what I had literally just posted.

To be quite honest with you, I cared more about Hopkirk's answers to the questions then yours, but thought I was more likely to get telling answers if I did not come across like I was interrogating him.

[Hopkirk]

Does Luke make so many ridiculously overtly scummy posts with a partner like Bingle who'd presumably be saying in the scum QT 'stop saying thing that sound ridiculously scummy'? I feel like there'd be coaching there and Luke wouldn't keep openly trying to line up Muslims.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I feel like there'd be coaching there and Luke wouldn't keep openly trying to line up Muslims.

Now you making him sound rascist.

[Bingle]

Oh, and look who suddenly knows I’m flipping town. Lim hopkirk. This is transparent.

[Lukewarm]

and if Bingle/Hop is in fact TvT then all of your posts and actions are setting us straight on a path to two straight miseliminations. If you really thought Bingle was town you should not have been goading marcistar/Bingle to eliminate there today

I still stand by my earlier statement, that I think this was the best path to a win for town.


I think that Hopkirk is scum... but, if there is a world where hopkirk is not scum, then I think in that world bingle is.

Bingle suggested trading Vanderscamp for a hopkirk vote. and you and marci both seemed okay with that. That trade seemed like it would have been way less productive. first, I think that there was a lesser chance for it to get a scum flip. Secondly, I feel like we would have entered day 2 with multiple people crying "but Bingle is scum" and we would not have actually gotten any closer to winning.