Mini Theme 2217 | Owner's market blitz | Over

[Smoke and Mirrors]

1. Did Imaginality provide any quotes or generalized reasoning for a partnership between me and Gamma? I'd like to address any that are resonating with you as he's no longer around to discuss with

nah theres no quotes in there

2. Can you go into what doesn't seem town about my D5 or any other parts of the game? Again I'd like to address concerns

d5 just seemed like u were trying to push whatevers easiest to convince people on mainly. it seemed like u were keeping ur options open, and not trying to limit those options down at all to find scum. thats what i dont like, and thats what convinced me on u.

3. Can you provide context to this? I'm not sure what it's referring to.

we were talking about if gamma would be scum
i said "he would vote alot quicker if he was town" something like that
he said that someone used that argument against him when the butterfly elim thing was going down
i mentioned how it was u who did that against him.

ttention his slot deserves. Nobody else was keeping their options open enough to see he was scum. I've already posted some quotes but can post more in a dedicated post if you need, to showcase my pushing on Gamma and others' "passive" townreading of him.

he didnt mention ur push on gamma at all tho..?

7. Why did you think I would try to get him miseliminated? I briefly flip-flopped end of D3 I think when CB was eliminated, I remember voting him so he would have to vote CB to self-preserve, and I SRed him on D1 some, but aside from those times, as I recall I thought he was actually trying to solve. I think he Cupcake and I have been the most active about solving in this game.

at that point my thoughts were "brrrng i was wrong somewhere, i dont think kittys partner would lead an elim against them tho" so it went down to process of elimination which made u = scum, so if scum wanted a miselim on imaginality (like he thought it was gonna be)... ur who i think is scum, so u would try to miselim him

I applaud your tenacity. I still believe you’re scum and I just hope that SS and Marci also realize this.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw RE: the track:
Since scum, presumably, attempted to outbid me on the jailkeeper, but failed, they would know a town player got the jailkeeper.
If the jailkeeper was used to protect, they would assume that it was on Smoke & Mirrors, the more universal townread and loudest voice, which again is why a watch there is convenient.

If the jailkeeper was used offensively rather than defensively, though? Who would the scum think would be blocked? VFP, the person with the ninja and a universal scumread, or the other scum?

OBVIOUSLY, with the scum not having control of the jailkeeper, they would know that IF the jailkeeper were used offensively, that the jailkeeper would be roleblocking VFP, necessitating the non-ninja to perform the nightkill.

Which means that in all probability, the clear on SSBM is in fact a clear. While it's obviously possible scum, knowing that they didn't get the jailkeeper, chose to holster out of fear of the jailkeeper, them deliberately no-killing guarantees the jailkeeper agency; if the jailkeeper was used offensively on VFP, VFP's a guaranteed elimination; if the jailkeeper was used defensively on town, then the town player is cleared from the jailkeeper; this, regardless of an attempt to kill or not.

In other words: scum

could

have holstered, but they had more reason to take a shot than to not. Meaning that the clear while not absolute, I still trust as being reasonably likely to be correct.

So at this point:

Smoke and Mirrors = marcistar = ssbm >> imaginality >>> Gamma Emerald

>

Something_Smart >>>>>>>> VFP to me.

Not the specific quote I was looking for but it’ll do. This is also why SS is town. Gamma was more tr than he was, so it makes absolutely no sense for him to have guiltied Gamma.

That quote you posted also is flipped town explaining why your result on me is, in all likelihood, an actual clear. Now we know more than she did though, as your result being a clear was predicated on scum!VFP's non-ninja partner performing a kill to dodge the jailkeep.

We know VFP is town now.

Gamma/S_S: knowing there is a no watcher and there is a tracker, the player more TRed by the tracker would try to kill the JK and expect rhe JK to guard the tracker

Gamma/Kyouko: knowing there is a watcher, a tracker, and a Jailkeeper, either I should kill someone unlikely to be watched using strongman, or Gamma should try to kill the Jailkeeper because the tracker TRs him.

Gamma/S&M: knowing there is a Jailkeeper and a watcher, it doesnt matter who performs the kill as long as they aim for the JK so it cant be stopped. Gamma would attempt this kill in case he gets caught by watcher, because Gamma appears to follow S&M, and S&M is more TRed. So S&M has plausible deniability in this case.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

S & M
Something_Smart
Marcistar

Kyouku

[ssbm_Kyouko]

1. Did Imaginality provide any quotes or generalized reasoning for a partnership between me and Gamma? I'd like to address any that are resonating with you as he's no longer around to discuss with

nah theres no quotes in there

2. Can you go into what doesn't seem town about my D5 or any other parts of the game? Again I'd like to address concerns

d5 just seemed like u were trying to push whatevers easiest to convince people on mainly. it seemed like u were keeping ur options open, and not trying to limit those options down at all to find scum. thats what i dont like, and thats what convinced me on u.

3. Can you provide context to this? I'm not sure what it's referring to.

we were talking about if gamma would be scum
i said "he would vote alot quicker if he was town" something like that
he said that someone used that argument against him when the butterfly elim thing was going down
i mentioned how it was u who did that against him.

ttention his slot deserves. Nobody else was keeping their options open enough to see he was scum. I've already posted some quotes but can post more in a dedicated post if you need, to showcase my pushing on Gamma and others' "passive" townreading of him.

he didnt mention ur push on gamma at all tho..?

7. Why did you think I would try to get him miseliminated? I briefly flip-flopped end of D3 I think when CB was eliminated, I remember voting him so he would have to vote CB to self-preserve, and I SRed him on D1 some, but aside from those times, as I recall I thought he was actually trying to solve. I think he Cupcake and I have been the most active about solving in this game.

at that point my thoughts were "brrrng i was wrong somewhere, i dont think kittys partner would lead an elim against them tho" so it went down to process of elimination which made u = scum, so if scum wanted a miselim on imaginality (like he thought it was gonna be)... ur who i think is scum, so u would try to miselim him

D5 is the day S_S guiltied Gamma, so I was keeping options between them open, because we were in mlimlo. Did you mean D4, because I do remember flip flopping a lot on D4. But D4 is when I pushed Gamma. I quoted my push, S&M's reaction to it, and Imaginality's vote on Gamma which immediately follows my case, and put it into a spoiler. You should see soon I think.

Okay, context helps: I think yes that town votes a lot quicker there as the victim of a fake guilty. I used a different argument on Gamma when he voted me on d5 though, that voting me (not voting speed) is just wrong here as there is 100% scum in Gamma and S_S so town!Gamma should only vote S_S.

I did say something like that to Imaginality at the Cupcake deadline on D3, but it is not the same exact thing. Cupcake did not have a guilty on Imaginality. I thought, after seeing Imaginality do that VC that if he were town he should be voting Cupcake, as any unknown flip is better for a town player than their own flip. As it stood, in the VC Imaginality.was.going to die by tiebreak, but if he moved to CB, then CB would have hit the next vote count (I think 3 or 4) before Imaginality if anyone else voted Ima, so I forced him to.vote CB to self-preserve because I was considering CB and Imaginality as a team at that point close to deadline. I was trying to test Imaginality and it was manipulative, but it worked. I got confirmation they weren't teamed, and I came back around to TRing him on D4 when I was floating options and eventually landed on Gamma.

As mentioned, you'll see my D4 Gamma case and Imaginality voting Gamma right after I post it v soon.

Okay so you were wrong somewhere and I was poe scum because kitty's partner wouldn't lead a wagon on them, but as it turns out, kitty's partner did lead a wagon on them, so the poe that pointed to me was based on an assumption that turned out to be incorrect. It sounds like you're saying scum would want to mislim Imaginality, and because I'm scum by poe I would want to mislim him. But if I'm not scum by poe, then someone else could want to mislim him as well,.right? Look at Gamma's and S&M's scumreads: {

VFP, Imaginality

, Kyouko}. They also were pushing to mislim Imaginality.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Then you lie and try to give Imaginality the impression that we have hitman, so his roleblock can’t clear us. Then right before the day ends, you actually tell the truth and admit you not only have it but have actually had it since day freaking 1!

What possible town motivation could you have to lie about this? NONE

This is not a lie. I have had 1-shot hitman since day 1, nice try at a dumbtell though lol. I explained how you could have bought the 2-shot hitman for 301, bit here it is again:

Gamma buys AD and Tracker and passes the results to you in the scum PT so you can claim them.
You buy Godfather and Hitman so that when Gamma is outed it appears that you can be cleared by a roleblock, which you know Imaginality has if you ADed him N2, because you can see the 500-90=410. It's the same argument as how S_S could have bought hitman, but it's more believable for S_S, because with Watcher, you will know if your partner was ADed before claiming.

It is possible for you to have hitman in your possession, right now. I have demonstrated it to be possible, so it is not, and never was, a lie.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How did Gamma fool you if you were just partners with him?

Also what is your full bidding history @S&M

[ssbm_Kyouko]

And why did you bid 365 on Cop D1?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Btw RE: the track:
Since scum, presumably, attempted to outbid me on the jailkeeper, but failed, they would know a town player got the jailkeeper.
If the jailkeeper was used to protect, they would assume that it was on Smoke & Mirrors, the more universal townread and loudest voice, which again is why a watch there is convenient.

If the jailkeeper was used offensively rather than defensively, though? Who would the scum think would be blocked? VFP, the person with the ninja and a universal scumread, or the other scum?

OBVIOUSLY, with the scum not having control of the jailkeeper, they would know that IF the jailkeeper were used offensively, that the jailkeeper would be roleblocking VFP, necessitating the non-ninja to perform the nightkill.

Which means that in all probability, the clear on SSBM is in fact a clear. While it's obviously possible scum, knowing that they didn't get the jailkeeper, chose to holster out of fear of the jailkeeper, them deliberately no-killing guarantees the jailkeeper agency; if the jailkeeper was used offensively on VFP, VFP's a guaranteed elimination; if the jailkeeper was used defensively on town, then the town player is cleared from the jailkeeper; this, regardless of an attempt to kill or not.

In other words: scum

could

have holstered, but they had more reason to take a shot than to not. Meaning that the clear while not absolute, I still trust as being reasonably likely to be correct.

So at this point:

Smoke and Mirrors = marcistar = ssbm >> imaginality >>> Gamma Emerald

>

Something_Smart >>>>>>>> VFP to me.

Not the specific quote I was looking for but it’ll do. This is also why SS is town. Gamma was more tr than he was, so it makes absolutely no sense for him to have guiltied Gamma.

You were more TRed than Gamma is why he guiltied Gamma and not you. You had Gamma perform the kill because of that.

Consider that I'm the last scum: Does Gamma or I perform the kill on the obvious Tracker Mastina? I do, because Gamma is locktowned by S&M who is town in this scenario. Gamma is better positioned to endgame amongst S&M, S_S, Imaginality, and Marci than I am. So if my team was forced to kill tracker mastina, knowing she would not be involved in limlo situations, I would have done the kill so Gamma could endgame.

Consider that S&M is scum: why didn't scum target them on N3 when they had obviously won Tracker? Scum targeted the obvious Tracker on N4 when Mastina won the 2-shot. Why not on N3? Because scum!S&M won the tracker.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@MOD

votecount 6.0

Smoke and Mirrors (0)
ssbm_Kyouko (2) - Somke And Mirrors - Marcistar
Something_Smart (0)
marcistar (0)

not voting (2) - Something_Smart ssbm_Kyouko

day 6 ends in (expired on 2021-07-18 02:50:39)

i'm fine with granting an extension, i'm bad at timezones, but it looks like 2 more days are required?

Also yes I'd like extension for S_S's VLA, but it would be a long one. If you gave it:

I think S_S gets back around 4:45 PM on Monday the 19th in Central US time.

Current deadline looks like 1:50 AM on the 18th, so a 2 day extension gives him about 9 hours to come in and post. Maybe a 3 day extension instead? If you cant do that or can only do 2 days, we can still no lim if he doesnt show up in time, as I doubt scum kills here. It's effectively the same as an extension imo

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I think hes 1 hr ahead of me.if in New York so he can probably post within those 9 hours in the evening before bed if you did 2 days

[ssbm_Kyouko]

How did Gamma fool you if you were just partners with him?

Also what is your full bidding history @S&M

And why did you bid 365 on Cop D1?

Pooky has been online and posting in multiple games for the last 2 and a half hours since I posted this question. Obviously Nancy is the main poster in this game, but this is just information I need - Pooky should be able, and has had plenty of time to answer. Nancy stopped posting a few minutes before I posted these, but she hides her login times, as does this hydra

[Gypyx]

@mod can you confirm this night action resolution in thread since there seems to be some confusion?

A tracks B
B kills C
D jailkeeps C

What result does A receive?
-B didn't go anywhere
-No result

B visited C

[Gypyx]

votecount 6.2

Smoke and Mirrors (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (2) - Somke And Mirrors - Marcistar
Something_Smart (0)
marcistar (0)

not voting (2) - Something_Smart ssbm_Kyouko

day 6 ends in (expired on 2021-07-20 14:35:14)

Extending Deadline by 2.5 days

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@Marcistar
@S_S

Please take a look. I know I've been posting a lot of walls and it's probably daunting to read it all, but if you read just one of my posts, this is the one that proves S&M is just scum here. A lot of my other posts are conjecture and what-ifs, this is evidence that S&M has been lying about results, which town should never be doing.

There are a lot of long quotes in here but you only need to read what is highlighted in

green

and then my commentary on it below to understand. I left full quotes for context and spoilered it for readability.
tl;dr:
-

S&M has flip-flopped

between claiming "No Result" and "Did not go anywhere" on me
-

S&M has lied at least 4-5 times about their PMs with Gypyx

, claiming that Gypyx told them that if I had visited Marci on the night Marci was jailkept, that S&M's result would have been useless.
-

Gypyx has confirmed publicly

that if S&M tracked me on the night Marci was jailed AND I tried to kill Marci that night, that S&M would have seen me visiting Marci.

Spoiler: S&M's progression on their Tracker result

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja,

so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Here S&M is talking about using the Tracker to get an inno, and their bid is already on tracker. Maybe Nancy Drew doesn't realize that with 2 scum alive, or if one wins Ninja, that a Tracker result is not an Inno. But if the Hydra has already placed this bid, surely she has consulted Pooky. It sounds as though he is supposed to be a smart guy, so I think he would have realized right away that with Tracker and Ninja up for auction on the same day that Tracker is a useless power. But they bought it anyways, and their plan is to get an inno with it, not a guilty. They should already know this is not possible.

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja, so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Gamma claimed he is bidding 499 on GF and VFP claimed he is bidding 500 on ninja

That’s very interesting. @Gamma why 499 and not 500?

Well, in that case tracker should work on everyone but VFP.

Now they know VFP has Ninja. They say Tracker works on everyone but VFP, but that's just wrong again. There are still 2 scum alive, so a tracker result on anyone is useless because the other scum can perform the kill. A watcher, however, is able to guilty VFP because VFP admitted to buying Ninja. A watcher watching the dead player that sees nothing happen to the dead player knows the dead player was killed by the ninja. There is no such line of reasoning for a Tracker to get either an inno or a guilty though.

I won the 1x jailkeeper, and I jailkept marcistar last night.

i think we should trust mastina unless theres a cc or anything. i tried digging and it failed, dont see anything else to explain this.

I didn't target anyone.
So either the jailkeeper jailkept scum, or jailkept scum's target, or the doctor protected town, or the scum no-killed.

i don't think its very likely scum no killed, they 100% need to get the number of very trusted townies down to get a shot at winning (and before more people can be thought of in a "near confirmed" way), not killing at this state would be detrimental for them.

mastina

, who do u think vfps partner would be?

gamma emerald, something_smart, vfp <- scums within these, maybe possibly ssbm_kyouko could be, but that seems unlikely to me.

smoke

, who do u think?

imaginality

, who do u think?
(anyone else is welcome to answer as well)

I still think something_smart would be the more likely to flip scum, but im fine with vfp as well.

I tracked Kyouku last night, he didn’t go anywhere.

I didn't go anywhere. Not "no result", and not "Kyouko visited Marcistar."

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and they can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

@mod, if Kyouku visited Marci, would we have gotten the same result?

Here is the clarifying question: Gypyx asks them to clarify it via PM, and it seems that they do clarify it by PM because they come back later singing a different tune.

yeah I think S_S is probably town here
VOTE: VFP
I wanna know what nancy is thinking in all this but atp this is fine because as I said, VFP's CB vote was the one that bothers me the most

Idk but I still think Mastina, you and SS are town but having doubts again on VFP.

I know we get a no resuts on Kyouku but if he tracked jk’d Marci, would that have nullified our inno?

Idk, anymore.

I think Marci’s town but I suppose it’s possible that no kill could have happened if she’s the onr who made it? Probably tinfoiling though, because I still think she’s town.

The first lie. S&M is now claiming they got a "no result" on me, rather than seeing I didn't go anywhere. This is different than what they said at Day start which is presumably freshly after reading their PM from the mod. Most likely they tracked someone else to PR hunt, or tracked Gamma to claim an inno on him, and wanted the watcher result to back up their claim if Gamma was watched. When no kill happened, they claimed I didn't go anywhere because scum!S&M knows I haven't bought anything that

can

go anywhere, since I announced my 426 bid on Hitman D1, and it was won for 426.

do u remember what the claims for bidding on cop were? i could only find 2 claims but im not sure if theres more

I think we bid 365 and didn’t get it. We spent everything on 1 shot AD=300 + 1 shot tracker=200.

Speaking of, Gypyx just informed me that my “inno” on Kyouku was meaningless if he actually visited you.

I think it’s Kitty/Gamma/Kyouku.

Kyouku could push Gamma because prior to SS guilty, I tr him, so he was never in any danger.

Mastina kill confirms Marci town and probably was the intended NK, so us/SS/Marci=all town.

Gypyx informed them that their result on me was meaningless if I actually visited Marci. Let's break that down in terms that align with the question I asked Gypyx publicly in the thread:

A(S&M) tracks B(Kyouko)
B(Kyouko) kills C(Marcistar)
D(Mastina) jailkeeps C(Marcistar)

Gypyx confirmed publicly that in this situation, A (S&M) should receive "B visited C", or "Kyouko visited Marcistar". He did

not say

that A would get No Result because the target of the kill was jailkept, and yet,

after confirming with the mod via pm

, S&M is claiming that their result on me is meaningless

if I actually visited Marci

. That last part is what's important. They are suggesting that the mod confirmed to them that if they tracked me and I visited a jailkept target, that they would have received "no result", which is what they are now claiming to have received on me. Keep in mind that in Day start they said I didn't go anywhere, not that they tracked me and they got no result.

Gypyx replied to me. I can't quote him but you can all send him the same question I did to confirm if you like.

The question is along the lines of:

what happens in this situation?
X tracks Y
Y kills Z
W jails Z
Does X receive 'no result' or 'Y visits Z' (I actually asked him if 'Y didn't go anywhere' because I didn't go anywhere all game and that is what was on my mind)

And Gypyx told me X would see Y visiting Z. But S&M said I didn't go anywhere/

S&M lied about their soft Inno (not hard because there are still 2 scum alive) on me being an "inno" based on Marci being jailed by Mastina the night S&M saw me go nowhere.

Quick End

I think this is solved

Why does S&M fake a soft inno on you in that scenario?

If I had any doubts on Gamma!scum/SS!town, Kyouku confirmed it for me.

So it seems the reason that Gamma is scum and SS is town, to S&M, follows: I pmed the mod to verify the false claim that S&M made about their question to the mod. Somehow this ties back to Gamma being Scum and S_S being Town. You tell me how that correlates lmao

I have the 1-shot hitman from d1 still. By your own admission you tracked me and saw me go nowhere when Marci has jailed. If I were scum and not on Marci's team I would have used my strongman that night to shoot through jailkeeper.

But yes, I have only spent 426 so scum!me has the money to have bought the 2-shot hitman as well.

Yes but I asked the mod, if that was actually valid if you visited Marci and he said it wasn’t. Iow, my “inno” is null and void if you visited Marci.

I figured when I saw this post, you were planning to NK Imaginality and frame us.

VOTE: Kyouku

And don’t insult our intelligence here. You didn’t use the hitman because you obviously didn’t think you needed it. You’re not clear, the mod confirmed that and SS knows 100% this is my obvtown meta here as did Mastina who had me as her #1 tr.

Doubling down in lying about mod-provided information, and using it to justify voting me today in mlimlo.

If Gamma and VFP both bid these amounts today the scumteam can no longer outbid everyone for the daykill.

This means gamma isn't scum

with

VFP.

Same would apply to the VFP-me scum pairing some people have been mooting. Or me-Gamma for that matter.

S&M, does ssbm's point change your views on me and/or VFP?

The fact that I misunderstood your 90 bid, means you weren’t being hypocritical about wanting town to bid high.

If it isn’t you/VFP than someone has been pocketing me really really good.

Here S&M points out that they are concerned that they have been pocketed if it's not VFP or Imaginality. This could be preparing to inno Gamma with tracker, and if anyone questioned S&M on the Gamma track they could say Gamma might have been pocketing them so they wanted to check him. It makes sense from a town perspective to try to use tracker to catch the more townread one of the scumteam, because if scum knows S&M won tracker by doing the math on AD plus Tracker, they know to send the scum that is in the trackers TRs to do the kill. That would be a town!S&M reasoning that scum!S&M could use to justify the targeting.

I don't understand it.
I was just going to say that SSBM is most likely town, but if they picked the 4 roles then that's a townlock.

I'm also happy to put everyone on the Kitty wagon as town.
Scum looked dis organised or just absent to not move over to me or even try else where.

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

I get to enhance 4 roles which makes them 400% more likely (I think this means 5x as likely but the setup may be worded incorrectly) to appear. I enhanced the 1-shot BP and also enhanced the 3 2-shot roles that appeared today. The 1-shot AD came in with it's normal chance, but I wanted it for tomorrow because it only.gives the most recent day of history. Both ADs the same day means unless the winner holds on to a shot they'll be looking at who bought the other AD potentially which is a but of a waste imo. Thought they'd be better staggered because then the second shot would line up with the 1-shot and we'd have 2 detectives looking at toMorrows bids when the player pool is reduced more

Ah, got it.
Thats for confirming. I actually thought by enhance you made it better.

Regardless I think the 4 we got are really strong for this early in the game.

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I keep going back and forth on this. I want to be super confident on a VFP scumflip but I just can’t. But if Gamma’s right and you actually are Vedith, then we’ve definitely played together before Happy Face.

I just don’t see why Marci kills Distance and who of my trs I could possibly be reading wrong. I guess it’s possible CB could be pocketing me? He did give me that tr pretty fast but he’s not really being scummy either. I’ve seen his scumgame and it didn’t look anything like this.

No concern that Gamma could be pocketing them here. Hmm

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja, so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Gamma claimed he is bidding 499 on GF and VFP claimed he is bidding 500 on ninja

That’s very interesting. @Gamma why 499 and not 500? Well, in that case tracker should work on everyone but VFP.

I think if there had been a kill that S&M would have claimed they tracked Gamma if you catch my drift. That's why Gamma made a show of buying a role that cant go anywhere.

You’ve got serious chutzpah, I’ll give you that. Why tf would scum!us track a buddy? Please just continue to drive it home that your the last scum. You don’t even need my help.

We tracked YOU. Mod said you didn’t go anywhere but when I asked him if that held up if you visited Marci, he then told me it was essentially meaningless but don’t let me stop you from continuing to insult everyone’s intelligence

. lololol

tripling down on lying about mod provided information. This is after I've started to post my case against S&M, and, like on D2, instead of engaging me in a reasonable way to determine whether my push is in good faith, S&M lies about mod-provided information and shades me, saying I am insulting people's intelligence. Now S&M is back to saying I didn't go anywhere instead of no result. It has been publicly confirmed that if you had asked him what would have happened if I visited Marci while she was jailkept, that you would have seen that I visited Marci. Instead, you say you saw that I didn't go anywhere. So you are clearly lying about your conversations with the mod, if they even happened. Town has 0 reason to do this. You are confirmed scum.

@mod can you confirm this night action resolution in thread since there seems to be some confusion?

A tracks B
B kills C
D jailkeeps C

What result does A receive?
-B didn't go anywhere
-No result

If you tried to visit Marci, that would be our result but since she was jailkept by Mastina, my result on you was meaningless.

I pm’d him and that’s what he told me but anyone who understands how a jk would impact a tracker result could clearly figure that out but that’s what Gypyx told me:

if you visited Marci, our result is useless.

I'm not sure what S&M meant by "that" in "that would be our result" because I posted B didn't go anywhere and No result, both of which are different things that S&M has claimed about me so far, but again, S&M, in no uncertain terms, is saying that they asked Gypyx a question along these lines, probably not with these exact words: "if Kyouko visited Marci on the night I tracked Kyouko, would I have received the same result if Marci was jailkept?" And they are claiming that Gypyx said "no, if Kyouko visited Marci while she was jailkept, your result is meaningless." This is now publicly confirmed to be false. S&M has been lying about this, and town does not have reason to lie about this.

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and they can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

Mafia players will receive 800Ð.

^


Kyouko just making lies up about me

OK so I think the mastina scum deliberately no-killing theory doesn't hold up. A bit too risky and I don't think mastina needed to take the risk.

So mastina town.
Ssbm I think is likely town because daykill has been pushed back and now is unavailable to scum, and buying hitman openly D1 needed him for future auctions.
Ssbm not being killed suggests to me scum may have been coin/PR hunting and know ssbm isn't a threat on either front.

If ssbm is town his push towards VFP D1 wasn't scum trying to deflect from Kitty. So VFP scum is more possible.

I think it was easy for marci if scum to town read me to get creds for a town flip, but I don't think it's as likely as marci town.

S&M everyone seems sure is town because of Kitty wagon.

VFP, Something_Smart, Gamma.
I can see how VFP scum would want me around as a future mis elim.

I think if VFP is scum it proves his D2 wagon was town as I think scum bussing D2 is too risky for them, auction wise. Conversely VFP town helps narrow down who's scum. (Per ssbm's count, the E-1 wagon on VFP day 2 had cyrus, distance, S&M, mastina, marcistar)

I think there's at most one scum among {VFP, S&M, mastina, marcistar}. Which leaves at least one among {ssbm, Something_Smart, Gamma}

So VFP isn't scum I think Something_Smart and Gamma are. And if VFP is scum I think one or the other of them is.

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and

they

can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

Isn't the bolded referring to your hypothetical scumbuddy, not you?

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and they can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

Reread the quoted post, and relax lmao

Oh I see from pronoun usage it is unclear upon reread. By "they" I mean the third scum. I also dont think that is what happened
What I'm saying is that, even with the info we have, it isn't enough to catch any scum by looking at auction prices directly, as they are able to mix and match their purchases if needed to make the numbers line up.

What I'm saying is we need to look at dayplay and see Gamma has been sidelining the whole game. He's not offering anything original, I dont think he's scumhunting so much as he's just following the flow of others' pushes, and it's pretty easy to see it by just reading his ISO.

I also think that Distancr and Marci as kills point towards a player like Gamma and the only other sideliney player like that is S_S. I think S_S makes sense as a partner to Gamma as well - the game just really points that way.

Gamma also shares some of your reads (Imaginality / VFP theory), so you might consider that he's hiding behind you

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

In this case on Gamma directed at S&M, I even point out to them explicitly that Gamma could be hiding behind them. S&M continues posting until deadline but never addresses this point. The next morning, S_S announces a guilty on Gamma. S&M pretty immediately votes Gamma without questioning if it's a fake in LimLo, slipping that she knows Gamma's alignment.

I think it's odd that one of their highest TRs guilties another of their highest TRs (probably top 2 TRs of S&M's left alive at that point in the game) and there is no pause to question which one they were wrong about.

Gamma wasn’t a hider, he flipped goon. Because I trusted S_S, which is why I fought so hard to save him.

Do I seriously need to requote the scummy reactions Gamma had to the guilty. which I pointed out? Or are you also going to pretend that never happened?

Jesus christ are you obtuse? Obviously Gamma isn't a Hider, this is an open setup. It is clear from context that I am saying he could be hiding behind town!you's pushes and reads to look less scummy as your scumreads get flipped as red. I'm saying he could be buddying you, pocketing you, etc.

He was obviously buddying me and I was wrong to not listen to CB on Alisae. I honestly thought Alisae would play a lot better as scum but I honestly can’t see why scum!Gamma would try so hard to push me to vote you for MO if you weren’t his buddy?

What other possible reason would he do that?

If you’re not his buddy, then he should have been fine with me voting for Flea or CB. He also didn’t say anything about it being deadline as a reason either, He hardpushed this and scum!Mastina did something very similar in a game but far less obviously. She tried to get us all to vote for her buddy Pink Ball. The difference was she was a lot more subtle but also, it actually mattered a lot less than in this game.

I also know we’re town.
I don’t believe SS would ever guilty a buddy. I have meta on him, remember?
I believe Distance inno’d Marci and that’s why he died. I also don’t see why Marci would kill Distance.

Mastina would never have scum!me as her #1 tr and has never townlocked me as scum. She said that this is “transparently town!Nancy”. I can dig up the post if need be. I just don’t see how it’s not you, because every single damn thing points to it.

And wrt to your nonsense track Gamma thing, why then didn’t we claim that? As Imaginality pointed out, why wrongly claim an inno on you?

And had I not clarified with Gypyx that that inno was meaningless if you visited jk’d Marci, you might possibly have won this but the jk thing made me doubt that our result was valid, so damn good thing I verified it.

This is another time S&M is doubling down on their lies about mod-provided information regarding their result on me.

Spoiler: The mod quote that proves that S&M is lying

@mod can you confirm this night action resolution in thread since there seems to be some confusion?

A tracks B
B kills C
D jailkeeps C

What result does A receive?
-B didn't go anywhere
-No result

B visited C

A=Smoke & Mirrors
B=Kyouko
C=Marcistar
D=Mastina

[Smoke and Mirrors]

@Marcistar
@S_S

Please take a look. I know I've been posting a lot of walls and it's probably daunting to read it all, but if you read just one of my posts, this is the one that proves S&M is just scum here. A lot of my other posts are conjecture and what-ifs, this is evidence that S&M has been lying about results, which town should never be doing.

There are a lot of long quotes in here but you only need to read what is highlighted in

green

and then my commentary on it below to understand. I left full quotes for context and spoilered it for readability.
tl;dr:
-

S&M has flip-flopped

between claiming "No Result" and "Did not go anywhere" on me
-

S&M has lied at least 4-5 times about their PMs with Gypyx

, claiming that Gypyx told them that if I had visited Marci on the night Marci was jailkept, that S&M's result would have been useless.
-

Gypyx has confirmed publicly

that if S&M tracked me on the night Marci was jailed AND I tried to kill Marci that night, that S&M would have seen me visiting Marci.

Spoiler: S&M's progression on their Tracker result

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja,

so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Here S&M is talking about using the Tracker to get an inno, and their bid is already on tracker. Maybe Nancy Drew doesn't realize that with 2 scum alive, or if one wins Ninja, that a Tracker result is not an Inno. But if the Hydra has already placed this bid, surely she has consulted Pooky. It sounds as though he is supposed to be a smart guy, so I think he would have realized right away that with Tracker and Ninja up for auction on the same day that Tracker is a useless power. But they bought it anyways, and their plan is to get an inno with it, not a guilty. They should already know this is not possible.

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja, so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Gamma claimed he is bidding 499 on GF and VFP claimed he is bidding 500 on ninja

That’s very interesting. @Gamma why 499 and not 500?

Well, in that case tracker should work on everyone but VFP.

Now they know VFP has Ninja. They say Tracker works on everyone but VFP, but that's just wrong again. There are still 2 scum alive, so a tracker result on anyone is useless because the other scum can perform the kill. A watcher, however, is able to guilty VFP because VFP admitted to buying Ninja. A watcher watching the dead player that sees nothing happen to the dead player knows the dead player was killed by the ninja. There is no such line of reasoning for a Tracker to get either an inno or a guilty though.

I won the 1x jailkeeper, and I jailkept marcistar last night.

i think we should trust mastina unless theres a cc or anything. i tried digging and it failed, dont see anything else to explain this.

I didn't target anyone.
So either the jailkeeper jailkept scum, or jailkept scum's target, or the doctor protected town, or the scum no-killed.

i don't think its very likely scum no killed, they 100% need to get the number of very trusted townies down to get a shot at winning (and before more people can be thought of in a "near confirmed" way), not killing at this state would be detrimental for them.

mastina

, who do u think vfps partner would be?

gamma emerald, something_smart, vfp <- scums within these, maybe possibly ssbm_kyouko could be, but that seems unlikely to me.

smoke

, who do u think?

imaginality

, who do u think?
(anyone else is welcome to answer as well)

I still think something_smart would be the more likely to flip scum, but im fine with vfp as well.

I tracked Kyouku last night, he didn’t go anywhere.

I didn't go anywhere. Not "no result", and not "Kyouko visited Marcistar."

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and they can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

@mod, if Kyouku visited Marci, would we have gotten the same result?

Here is the clarifying question: Gypyx asks them to clarify it via PM, and it seems that they do clarify it by PM because they come back later singing a different tune.

yeah I think S_S is probably town here
VOTE: VFP
I wanna know what nancy is thinking in all this but atp this is fine because as I said, VFP's CB vote was the one that bothers me the most

Idk but I still think Mastina, you and SS are town but having doubts again on VFP.

I know we get a no resuts on Kyouku but if he tracked jk’d Marci, would that have nullified our inno?

Idk, anymore.

I think Marci’s town but I suppose it’s possible that no kill could have happened if she’s the onr who made it? Probably tinfoiling though, because I still think she’s town.

The first lie. S&M is now claiming they got a "no result" on me, rather than seeing I didn't go anywhere. This is different than what they said at Day start which is presumably freshly after reading their PM from the mod. Most likely they tracked someone else to PR hunt, or tracked Gamma to claim an inno on him, and wanted the watcher result to back up their claim if Gamma was watched. When no kill happened, they claimed I didn't go anywhere because scum!S&M knows I haven't bought anything that

can

go anywhere, since I announced my 426 bid on Hitman D1, and it was won for 426.

do u remember what the claims for bidding on cop were? i could only find 2 claims but im not sure if theres more

I think we bid 365 and didn’t get it. We spent everything on 1 shot AD=300 + 1 shot tracker=200.

Speaking of, Gypyx just informed me that my “inno” on Kyouku was meaningless if he actually visited you.

I think it’s Kitty/Gamma/Kyouku.

Kyouku could push Gamma because prior to SS guilty, I tr him, so he was never in any danger.

Mastina kill confirms Marci town and probably was the intended NK, so us/SS/Marci=all town.

Gypyx informed them that their result on me was meaningless if I actually visited Marci. Let's break that down in terms that align with the question I asked Gypyx publicly in the thread:

A(S&M) tracks B(Kyouko)
B(Kyouko) kills C(Marcistar)
D(Mastina) jailkeeps C(Marcistar)

Gypyx confirmed publicly that in this situation, A (S&M) should receive "B visited C", or "Kyouko visited Marcistar". He did

not say

that A would get No Result because the target of the kill was jailkept, and yet,

after confirming with the mod via pm

, S&M is claiming that their result on me is meaningless

if I actually visited Marci

. That last part is what's important. They are suggesting that the mod confirmed to them that if they tracked me and I visited a jailkept target, that they would have received "no result", which is what they are now claiming to have received on me. Keep in mind that in Day start they said I didn't go anywhere, not that they tracked me and they got no result.

Gypyx replied to me. I can't quote him but you can all send him the same question I did to confirm if you like.

The question is along the lines of:

what happens in this situation?
X tracks Y
Y kills Z
W jails Z
Does X receive 'no result' or 'Y visits Z' (I actually asked him if 'Y didn't go anywhere' because I didn't go anywhere all game and that is what was on my mind)

And Gypyx told me X would see Y visiting Z. But S&M said I didn't go anywhere/

S&M lied about their soft Inno (not hard because there are still 2 scum alive) on me being an "inno" based on Marci being jailed by Mastina the night S&M saw me go nowhere.

Quick End

I think this is solved

Why does S&M fake a soft inno on you in that scenario?

If I had any doubts on Gamma!scum/SS!town, Kyouku confirmed it for me.

So it seems the reason that Gamma is scum and SS is town, to S&M, follows: I pmed the mod to verify the false claim that S&M made about their question to the mod. Somehow this ties back to Gamma being Scum and S_S being Town. You tell me how that correlates lmao

I have the 1-shot hitman from d1 still. By your own admission you tracked me and saw me go nowhere when Marci has jailed. If I were scum and not on Marci's team I would have used my strongman that night to shoot through jailkeeper.

But yes, I have only spent 426 so scum!me has the money to have bought the 2-shot hitman as well.

Yes but I asked the mod, if that was actually valid if you visited Marci and he said it wasn’t. Iow, my “inno” is null and void if you visited Marci.

I figured when I saw this post, you were planning to NK Imaginality and frame us.

VOTE: Kyouku

And don’t insult our intelligence here. You didn’t use the hitman because you obviously didn’t think you needed it. You’re not clear, the mod confirmed that and SS knows 100% this is my obvtown meta here as did Mastina who had me as her #1 tr.

Doubling down in lying about mod-provided information, and using it to justify voting me today in mlimlo.

If Gamma and VFP both bid these amounts today the scumteam can no longer outbid everyone for the daykill.

This means gamma isn't scum

with

VFP.

Same would apply to the VFP-me scum pairing some people have been mooting. Or me-Gamma for that matter.

S&M, does ssbm's point change your views on me and/or VFP?

The fact that I misunderstood your 90 bid, means you weren’t being hypocritical about wanting town to bid high.

If it isn’t you/VFP than someone has been pocketing me really really good.

Here S&M points out that they are concerned that they have been pocketed if it's not VFP or Imaginality. This could be preparing to inno Gamma with tracker, and if anyone questioned S&M on the Gamma track they could say Gamma might have been pocketing them so they wanted to check him. It makes sense from a town perspective to try to use tracker to catch the more townread one of the scumteam, because if scum knows S&M won tracker by doing the math on AD plus Tracker, they know to send the scum that is in the trackers TRs to do the kill. That would be a town!S&M reasoning that scum!S&M could use to justify the targeting.

I don't understand it.
I was just going to say that SSBM is most likely town, but if they picked the 4 roles then that's a townlock.

I'm also happy to put everyone on the Kitty wagon as town.
Scum looked dis organised or just absent to not move over to me or even try else where.

Gylyx doesn't do a VC on a flip normally I think.

VOTE: MistyxVOTE:

I also don't think Marci is scum here.

I get to enhance 4 roles which makes them 400% more likely (I think this means 5x as likely but the setup may be worded incorrectly) to appear. I enhanced the 1-shot BP and also enhanced the 3 2-shot roles that appeared today. The 1-shot AD came in with it's normal chance, but I wanted it for tomorrow because it only.gives the most recent day of history. Both ADs the same day means unless the winner holds on to a shot they'll be looking at who bought the other AD potentially which is a but of a waste imo. Thought they'd be better staggered because then the second shot would line up with the 1-shot and we'd have 2 detectives looking at toMorrows bids when the player pool is reduced more

Ah, got it.
Thats for confirming. I actually thought by enhance you made it better.

Regardless I think the 4 we got are really strong for this early in the game.

I've only played with Nancy once (it was a Pooky Nora Nancy hydra) and I was Paranoid that they were bussing scum come late game.
I was wrong though and they flipped town.

Outside of that, I have no experience that I at least remember.

I keep going back and forth on this. I want to be super confident on a VFP scumflip but I just can’t. But if Gamma’s right and you actually are Vedith, then we’ve definitely played together before Happy Face.

I just don’t see why Marci kills Distance and who of my trs I could possibly be reading wrong. I guess it’s possible CB could be pocketing me? He did give me that tr pretty fast but he’s not really being scummy either. I’ve seen his scumgame and it didn’t look anything like this.

No concern that Gamma could be pocketing them here. Hmm

votecount 3.1

Gamma Emerald (0)
mastina (0)
Smoke and Mirrors (0)
Cupcake Butterfly (1) - ssbm_Kyouko
ssbm_Kyouko (1) - Imaginality
Something_Smart (1) - Marcistar
imaginality (1) - Gamma Emerald
marcistar (0)
VFP (1) - mastina

not voting (4) - Everyone

day 3 ends in (expired on 2021-07-02 02:48:08)

auction

the auctioned abilities are :

1-shot Godfather the top bid at mid point was 499

1-shot Tracker the top bid at mid point was 200

2-shot Ninja the top bid at mid point was 500

1-shot Jailkeeper the top bid at mid point was 150

We should let scum eat the GF bid, since they’re likely putting all of their pennies on Ninja, so I strongly recommend whomever gets tracker to use it to get an inno, because if scum has ninja than a tracker will just be wasted on them.

Gamma claimed he is bidding 499 on GF and VFP claimed he is bidding 500 on ninja

That’s very interesting. @Gamma why 499 and not 500? Well, in that case tracker should work on everyone but VFP.

I think if there had been a kill that S&M would have claimed they tracked Gamma if you catch my drift. That's why Gamma made a show of buying a role that cant go anywhere.

You’ve got serious chutzpah, I’ll give you that. Why tf would scum!us track a buddy? Please just continue to drive it home that your the last scum. You don’t even need my help.

We tracked YOU. Mod said you didn’t go anywhere but when I asked him if that held up if you visited Marci, he then told me it was essentially meaningless but don’t let me stop you from continuing to insult everyone’s intelligence

. lololol

tripling down on lying about mod provided information. This is after I've started to post my case against S&M, and, like on D2, instead of engaging me in a reasonable way to determine whether my push is in good faith, S&M lies about mod-provided information and shades me, saying I am insulting people's intelligence. Now S&M is back to saying I didn't go anywhere instead of no result. It has been publicly confirmed that if you had asked him what would have happened if I visited Marci while she was jailkept, that you would have seen that I visited Marci. Instead, you say you saw that I didn't go anywhere. So you are clearly lying about your conversations with the mod, if they even happened. Town has 0 reason to do this. You are confirmed scum.

@mod can you confirm this night action resolution in thread since there seems to be some confusion?

A tracks B
B kills C
D jailkeeps C

What result does A receive?
-B didn't go anywhere
-No result

If you tried to visit Marci, that would be our result but since she was jailkept by Mastina, my result on you was meaningless.

I pm’d him and that’s what he told me but anyone who understands how a jk would impact a tracker result could clearly figure that out but that’s what Gypyx told me:

if you visited Marci, our result is useless.

I'm not sure what S&M meant by "that" in "that would be our result" because I posted B didn't go anywhere and No result, both of which are different things that S&M has claimed about me so far, but again, S&M, in no uncertain terms, is saying that they asked Gypyx a question along these lines, probably not with these exact words: "if Kyouko visited Marci on the night I tracked Kyouko, would I have received the same result if Marci was jailkept?" And they are claiming that Gypyx said "no, if Kyouko visited Marci while she was jailkept, your result is meaningless." This is now publicly confirmed to be false. S&M has been lying about this, and town does not have reason to lie about this.

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and they can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

Mafia players will receive 800Ð.

^


Kyouko just making lies up about me

OK so I think the mastina scum deliberately no-killing theory doesn't hold up. A bit too risky and I don't think mastina needed to take the risk.

So mastina town.
Ssbm I think is likely town because daykill has been pushed back and now is unavailable to scum, and buying hitman openly D1 needed him for future auctions.
Ssbm not being killed suggests to me scum may have been coin/PR hunting and know ssbm isn't a threat on either front.

If ssbm is town his push towards VFP D1 wasn't scum trying to deflect from Kitty. So VFP scum is more possible.

I think it was easy for marci if scum to town read me to get creds for a town flip, but I don't think it's as likely as marci town.

S&M everyone seems sure is town because of Kitty wagon.

VFP, Something_Smart, Gamma.
I can see how VFP scum would want me around as a future mis elim.

I think if VFP is scum it proves his D2 wagon was town as I think scum bussing D2 is too risky for them, auction wise. Conversely VFP town helps narrow down who's scum. (Per ssbm's count, the E-1 wagon on VFP day 2 had cyrus, distance, S&M, mastina, marcistar)

I think there's at most one scum among {VFP, S&M, mastina, marcistar}. Which leaves at least one among {ssbm, Something_Smart, Gamma}

So VFP isn't scum I think Something_Smart and Gamma are. And if VFP is scum I think one or the other of them is.

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and

they

can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

Isn't the bolded referring to your hypothetical scumbuddy, not you?

I just realized there are worlds where scum!S&M can buy both ADs, thirdscum can be just about anyone and they can still afford 200 for tracker, then S&M can announce the tracker result and appear to be town that bought 1-shot AD and Tracker. I dont think this happened, but it could have. So I realize voting based on bids doesnt really make sense. Any scum could be mixing and matching claims to make things appear differently to town trying to solve by numbers.

this is an outright lie


1-shot Auction Detective 300
2-shot Auction Detective 450
Tracker is 200

total is 950

scum start with 800 so its impossible for me to buy both ADs and Tracker

VOTE: Kyouko

Reread the quoted post, and relax lmao

Oh I see from pronoun usage it is unclear upon reread. By "they" I mean the third scum. I also dont think that is what happened
What I'm saying is that, even with the info we have, it isn't enough to catch any scum by looking at auction prices directly, as they are able to mix and match their purchases if needed to make the numbers line up.

What I'm saying is we need to look at dayplay and see Gamma has been sidelining the whole game. He's not offering anything original, I dont think he's scumhunting so much as he's just following the flow of others' pushes, and it's pretty easy to see it by just reading his ISO.

I also think that Distancr and Marci as kills point towards a player like Gamma and the only other sideliney player like that is S_S. I think S_S makes sense as a partner to Gamma as well - the game just really points that way.

Gamma also shares some of your reads (Imaginality / VFP theory), so you might consider that he's hiding behind you

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

In this case on Gamma directed at S&M, I even point out to them explicitly that Gamma could be hiding behind them. S&M continues posting until deadline but never addresses this point. The next morning, S_S announces a guilty on Gamma. S&M pretty immediately votes Gamma without questioning if it's a fake in LimLo, slipping that she knows Gamma's alignment.

I think it's odd that one of their highest TRs guilties another of their highest TRs (probably top 2 TRs of S&M's left alive at that point in the game) and there is no pause to question which one they were wrong about.

Gamma wasn’t a hider, he flipped goon. Because I trusted S_S, which is why I fought so hard to save him.

Do I seriously need to requote the scummy reactions Gamma had to the guilty. which I pointed out? Or are you also going to pretend that never happened?

Jesus christ are you obtuse? Obviously Gamma isn't a Hider, this is an open setup. It is clear from context that I am saying he could be hiding behind town!you's pushes and reads to look less scummy as your scumreads get flipped as red. I'm saying he could be buddying you, pocketing you, etc.

He was obviously buddying me and I was wrong to not listen to CB on Alisae. I honestly thought Alisae would play a lot better as scum but I honestly can’t see why scum!Gamma would try so hard to push me to vote you for MO if you weren’t his buddy?

What other possible reason would he do that?

If you’re not his buddy, then he should have been fine with me voting for Flea or CB. He also didn’t say anything about it being deadline as a reason either, He hardpushed this and scum!Mastina did something very similar in a game but far less obviously. She tried to get us all to vote for her buddy Pink Ball. The difference was she was a lot more subtle but also, it actually mattered a lot less than in this game.

I also know we’re town.
I don’t believe SS would ever guilty a buddy. I have meta on him, remember?
I believe Distance inno’d Marci and that’s why he died. I also don’t see why Marci would kill Distance.

Mastina would never have scum!me as her #1 tr and has never townlocked me as scum. She said that this is “transparently town!Nancy”. I can dig up the post if need be. I just don’t see how it’s not you, because every single damn thing points to it.

And wrt to your nonsense track Gamma thing, why then didn’t we claim that? As Imaginality pointed out, why wrongly claim an inno on you?

And had I not clarified with Gypyx that that inno was meaningless if you visited jk’d Marci, you might possibly have won this but the jk thing made me doubt that our result was valid, so damn good thing I verified it.

This is another time S&M is doubling down on their lies about mod-provided information regarding their result on me.

Spoiler: The mod quote that proves that S&M is lying

@mod can you confirm this night action resolution in thread since there seems to be some confusion?

A tracks B
B kills C
D jailkeeps C

What result does A receive?
-B didn't go anywhere
-No result

B visited C

A=Smoke & Mirrors
B=Kyouko
C=Marcistar
D=Mastina

@mod, can you please requote here EXACTLY what you said to me in that pm? I don’t want us to lose the game because Kyouku is misrepresenting what I was told. I asked you specifically what happened wrt to our track if Kyouku visited Marci, and you made it crystal clear our result was meaningless if that occurred. So I don’t know what kind of fuckery Kyouku is alledging but unless you’ve for some reason changed your mind on that, Our”inno” on Kyouku is non-existent.

At any rate, @Kyouku, Gamma could have visited Marci, so it doesn’t change my read on you one iota.

I am waiting for either Marci or SS to post. I’m not going to read anymore of your bs posts attempting to frame me.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

I will try to paraphrase what Gypyx told me:

He basically said, that the only way our result that Kyouku didn’t go anywhere is valid - if she visited Marci - is if you had a ninja ability. Is that correct @mod? And since we know that VFP got 2 shot ninja, it means, our result that Kyouku didn’t go anywhere was invalid.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

What is your full bidding history S&M?

[Gypyx]

@mod, can you please requote here EXACTLY what you said to me in that pm? I don’t want us to lose the game because Kyouku is misrepresenting what I was told. I asked you specifically what happened wrt to our track if Kyouku visited Marci, and you made it crystal clear our result was meaningless if that occurred. So I don’t know what kind of fuckery Kyouku is alledging but unless you’ve for some reason changed your mind on that, Our”inno” on Kyouku is non-existent

hmmm.... i'm not even sure what PM you're mentionning there, so could you like, simplify things?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I will try to paraphrase what Gypyx told me:

He basically said, that the only way our result that Kyouku didn’t go anywhere is valid - if she visited Marci - is if you had a ninja ability. Is that correct @mod? And since we know that VFP got 2 shot ninja, it means, our result that Kyouku didn’t go anywhere was invalid.

This is saying the only way you could have gotten the result on me that you did get, if I visited Marci, is if I had visited Marci using the Ninja ability. Your result on me (did not go anywhere) is valid, because I did not go anywhere.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Which means that if I am the last scum, that Gamma is the one that tried to kill Marci that night.

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gypyx is confusing me, he said we would have seen you visit jk’d Marci.

UNVOTE:

for now.

It’s definitely not us.

I don’t see why scum!SS guilties Gamma and why did Distance say that voting Marci was a scumclaim?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Gypyx is confusing me, he said we would have seen you visit jk’d Marci.

UNVOTE:

for now.

It’s definitely not us.

I don’t see why scum!SS guilties Gamma and why did Distance say that voting Marci was a scumclaim?

And why did Gamma push us so hard to vote you for MO?

Like even if you didn’t visit Marci, everything still seems to point to you and you pushing us as his buddy really isn’t helping much either, if I’m wrong.

I’m really struggling with how it could possibly not be you.

[Smoke and Mirrors]

Which means that if I am the last scum, that Gamma is the one that tried to kill Marci that night.

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

Wait, didn’t you say you had it since D1?

[Smoke and Mirrors]

And why did Distance die? Then I have no idea why scum would kill Flea.

[marcistar]

Ask yourselves, if I were scum, wouldn't I have just used my hitman ability to bypass the jailkeeper? Scum did not have hitman available to them the night the JK protected Marci or they would have used it, so I should be clear in that regard.

am i really an obvious kill..? i wouldnt think so