mini normal 2226; who won

[tris]

VC 1.12

MegAzumarill (5):

Datisi 286, Aristeia 327, Vulture 456, Lukewarm 905, MathBlade 991

Vulture (3):

MegAzumarill 579, Gamma Emerald 902, T3 916

ChaosOmega (2):

Alchemist21 665, Titus 1000

not voting:

Umlaut 742, Prism 765, ChaosOmega 1001

with 13 alive it takes 7 to destroy.

deadline:

(expired on 2021-08-08 18:55:00)

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Vulture

Gamma, after voting with two people he has suspected/worried about:

I think Math is town now, as for Meg, meh

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm super disengaged but I think Prism v Ari is tvt.

VOTE: vult
I'll sheep.

Who are you sheeping here?

Neither Prism nor Ari are voting for vulture atm.

People voting for Vulture.

(Fixed it)

Okay, but generally when town is sheeping, they have like, a strong town read that they are sheeping....

Not just sheeping the most recent wagon gaining steam...

This is true

[MegAzumarill]

Meg, why do you keep pushing on point 1 when you’re not the top wagon?

1. I am still widely scumread by people and decently likely to get limmed today or tomorrow.
2. That is arguably more preferable to me living until Limlo and being LHF.
3. If I'm alive I can adjust my input as needed.

Also, Titus, would you mind give your reasoning of why you townread me?

[Datisi]

meg, can you give updated concrete thoughts on vulture and the wagon on them?

[MegAzumarill]

I was on the Vulture wagon before it was cool

VOTE: Vulture

Let's steal us a scum flip, or at least a nightkill.

@Gamma, You in?

VOTE: Flubbernugget

E-1.

This is the scummy vote.

Vulture: on 2 occasions (me and flubber) added to a large wagon without providing thoughts of said wagon, very few reads given until very recently, Scumread

Honestly it feels like vulture hasn’t received enough pressure after their putting flubber at E-1. Especially after Chaos ended up doing the same before, with a much less meaningful vote.

VOTE: Vulture

Titus went and looked at the ISOs, found the same vote I had found, and agreed it was scummy.
The wagon was started on the same thing I had already observed and found scummy, and I still do.

[Datisi]

okay, you're then free to answer my question to titus - why is that vote scummy? and what do you make of vulture's recent posting? and in your own words.

[Umlaut]

I'm a bit lost and trying to find something intelligent to say, but I saw this

To be frank, when my top scum read decides to omgus scum read me back, I don't think it is all that beneficial for me to engage in a 1v1 with that person directly.

and found it absolutely hilarious given how my last game with Luke went

[Umlaut]

Sort of want to put my vote on Meg by PoE (I think Vulture and Chaos have both looked towny to me at various points) but I'd be lying if I said I had reasoning for that

[Titus]

@titus, why is vulture's vote there scummy?

It's opportunistic. He has one or two posts before riding the Flubber wave. Once it gets going as a wagon, he puts E minus 1 super early. He has no realistic comment on anyone else.

The rest of his ISO is not much better. There's no comment on most of the game. There's no attempts to solve.

@Datisi - I already answered you.

@Meg - The self-awareness and no effort to survive read townie to me.

[Titus]

I promised I'd review his postinh when I felt better.

[MegAzumarill]

Meg, why do you keep pushing on point 1 when you’re not the top wagon?

You’re clearly aware of my wagon existing and have read back so you should be aware that the votes on you have dropped away, yes?

The way I read you doing that right now is:

You are aware I am town -> you see the wagon but assume people will also recognize I am town -> you fear it flipping back onto you.

Feels like pre-emotive damage control.

These posts strikes me as particularly bad of their recent posts. This feels fabricated for a few reasons.

1. They accuse me of preemptive damage control if the wagon. What benefit would this have for me if I am scum?

2. I had already mentioned being eliminated on many circumstances, but they only choose to attack the point when I am the counter wagon against them, why not bring it up sooner if you found it scummy?

3. The posts aren't coherent, the first couple seems to imply confusion of why I would bring that up and that the votes were dissolving off me (Which isn't true VC was 5 on Vulture and 4 on me, still very close) However the third acts as if they are confident I am scum with an agenda of how I expect the conversation to go. Why would they act confused if they already had an idea of a scum motivation behind it? They didn't think of it later, as the posts were posted back to back.

It feels like a desperation attack to me when I go back and reread it.

[MegAzumarill]

1. I understand I am likely the lim today, and want to bring up my observations about the game to try to help give input after I am dead. (primary reason for the following question)

Added for context because I forgot to put it in the last post.

[Datisi]

@Datisi - I already answered you.

i am aware, i was asking meg, not you.

[Vulture]

Meg, why do you keep pushing on point 1 when you’re not the top wagon?

You’re clearly aware of my wagon existing and have read back so you should be aware that the votes on you have dropped away, yes?

The way I read you doing that right now is:

You are aware I am town -> you see the wagon but assume people will also recognize I am town -> you fear it flipping back onto you.

Feels like pre-emotive damage control.

These posts strikes me as particularly bad of their recent posts. This feels fabricated for a few reasons.

1. They accuse me of preemptive damage control if the wagon. What benefit would this have for me if I am scum?

2. I had already mentioned being eliminated on many circumstances, but they only choose to attack the point when I am the counter wagon against them, why not bring it up sooner if you found it scummy?

3. The posts aren't coherent, the first couple seems to imply confusion of why I would bring that up and that the votes were dissolving off me (Which isn't true VC was 5 on Vulture and 4 on me, still very close) However the third acts as if they are confident I am scum with an agenda of how I expect the conversation to go. Why would they act confused if they already had an idea of a scum motivation behind it? They didn't think of it later, as the posts were posted back to back.

It feels like a desperation attack to me when I go back and reread it.

1) To reinforce a sense of “look I’m reasonable guys, I can be helpful, don’t get rid of me” should the wagon on me disappear; the worry is that town will recognize me as town as well and then revert to you.

2) I had already ultimately decided that you were my vote prior in 678. As I had very explicitly stated I was thinking about your post that is the root of this woe is me I can be useful mentality, the implication is that it did not sway me personally.

Furthermore, I have had you as my vote before I was wagoned. This is obviously not an attempt to counter wagon or double down on you where I wasn’t before.

3) I know you’re misrepresenting them, but to everyone else: it’s not confusion but rhetorical questioning of someone’s motivations as scum. There is clearly no part of me in those posts that is like “huh, wonder what Meg is thinking” given the conclusion I write up not even a minute or two later.

[Vulture]

(As in the third point I was pointing out how weird it was that Meg was still doing this thing despite an awareness she had demonstrated of the wagon states in a way that indicated her “please guys, let me live” mentality is more likely a scum agenda.)

[Datisi]

yeah, i don't exactly buy it. it feels more like meg is looking for things they can attack you for rather that organically coming to that read. which /shrug, i've seen it happen with confbiased town sometimes, but it doesn't give me a sense of security that meg is genuinely hunting here.

[Datisi]

Sort of want to put my vote on Meg by PoE (I think Vulture and Chaos have both looked towny to me at various points) but I'd be lying if I said I had reasoning for that

can you read meg iso and say what you think? there have been PLENTY points on why meg could be scum.

[Vulture]

Yeah.

I can... somewhat believe Titus pushing me as scum, even if I think her methods are very wrong and don’t provide great results (though even then the notion of putting Meg after Math voted her as a town lean is Concerning). But I just get the sense Meg is nitpicking things. That last point in particular is such an egregious misread that I don’t believe anyone acting with any good faith would think I was confused or interpret it as such.

[Vulture]

It’s also hard to believe Meg is really that confbiased given that this all stemmed from my vote early on; the confidence in pushing feels survivalistic and hoping no one points that out because it’s at odds with the more rational demeanor she has.

[Datisi]

That last point in particular is such an egregious misread that I don’t believe anyone acting with any good faith would think I was confused or interpret it as such.

yeah, i read that post, and i was wondering if meg was being serious.

vulture, your current take on me?

[Vulture]

I’ve been a bit tunnel visioned in today but town. My one concern was earlier when you were asking about conclusions from people and it felt like you were asking too many questions without offering the same back but that was something I dismissed for the time being. It didn’t feel like a fair assessment of your play when I looked at your ISO.

[Vulture]

In reality I should read this game or quickskim to give a better conclusion on everything but depending on my evening that might not be today.

[Titus]

The Meg wagon makes me want to cry. Scum are running from that one so fast, hoping we flip Meg and turn on each other.

@Vulture, I have very little paranoia of Math. I wouldn't talk to them like I have if I did.

[Datisi]

titus, what's your solve again?