Mini 2247: Mountain Dew Mafia (Game Over)


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Post Post #1975 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:23 am

Post by Towelie »

In post 1967, Critter wrote:Asking me not to filter reads based on attempting to make reads is really really bad

What am I supposed to do? Pull from rng?
To put it simply: you're massively, massively confbiased.

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Post Post #1976 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:24 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1972, Towelie wrote:I think the gamestate is fine? People are talking and sharing opinions. I've seen worse, overall.

I think whether or not scum "love" the gamestate probably depends on whether or not VFT is scum or how many of the lurkfuck likely easy later elim slots (emmi, sm) are actually scum, so I'm not really making any assertion on the point with whatever i've posted.

But saying "I don't think VFT is scum therefore scum love the gamestate therefore VFT is town" is not a conversation i'm even going to entertain

-b
I don’t think it’s fine at all.
I don’t see this “sharing of opinions” you’re talking about
LLD 2-3 days ago had to do “Hey I am picking an elim” just to get something going at all.
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Post Post #1977 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:25 am

Post by Critter »

The game state sucks and is toxic as hell when you have people telling others to not fucking post when all I do is share opinions
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Post Post #1978 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:26 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1972, Towelie wrote:I think the gamestate is fine? People are talking and sharing opinions. I've seen worse, overall.

I think whether or not scum "love" the gamestate probably depends on whether or not VFT is scum or how many of the lurkfuck likely easy later elim slots (emmi, sm) are actually scum, so I'm not really making any assertion on the point with whatever i've posted.

But saying "I don't think VFT is scum therefore scum love the gamestate therefore VFT is town" is not a conversation i'm even going to entertain

-b
Gamestate isn’t a reads dependent thing. The gamestate can be toxic while the elim is on town or scum.

A gamestate is healthy when there is communication and a town block
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Post Post #1979 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:27 am

Post by Towelie »

I don't want you to shut up

I want you to
listen


those are not the same thing
LLD 2-3 days ago had to do “Hey I am picking an elim” just to get something going at all.
Yep, and now we're talking about it.

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Post Post #1980 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:29 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 1973, Critter wrote:Sorry maybe I will just be an NT. That’s a switch I can turn off and on.
Doesn't mean you can't make an effort to improve.
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Post Post #1981 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:29 am

Post by Towelie »

In post 1960, Critter wrote:I don’t think scum are unhappy with the gamestate so the rest of that doesn’t follow.
Like if you don't see how this utterly just marginalizes any possible legitimacy of my point of view, even if you think it's wrong

then we probably aren't going to be able to talk to each other

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Post Post #1982 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:31 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 1977, Critter wrote:The game state sucks and is toxic as hell when you have people telling others to not fucking post when all I do is share opinions
The problem is not that you're sharing your opinions, it's that you're representing your opinions as though they're immutable facts. Please try not to do that, and I imagine things will improve.
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Post Post #1983 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:31 am

Post by Towelie »

In post 1978, Critter wrote:a town block
yeah MELO had one of those

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Post Post #1984 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:35 am

Post by Towelie »

btw don't elim critter ever at this point, even if you know that it would make you feel really, really good for a few minutes.

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Post Post #1985 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:39 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1981, Towelie wrote:
In post 1960, Critter wrote:I don’t think scum are unhappy with the gamestate so the rest of that doesn’t follow.
Like if you don't see how this utterly just marginalizes any possible legitimacy of my point of view, even if you think it's wrong

then we probably aren't going to be able to talk to each other

-b
I don’t see how this marginalizes your point of view.

You said scum don’t push you as you’re not elimmable.

I think that scum don’t push players that are not elimmable without some kind of benefit and they’d need a gamestate in which they can afford to do so?

I don’t see how interacting with your point with an alternate idea marginalizes you?
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Post Post #1986 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:41 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1982, Something_Smart wrote:
In post 1977, Critter wrote:The game state sucks and is toxic as hell when you have people telling others to not fucking post when all I do is share opinions
The problem is not that you're sharing your opinions, it's that you're representing your opinions as though they're immutable facts. Please try not to do that, and I imagine things will improve.
But that’s where I am starting from.

I start from I am town.
The gamestate is a piece of shit.

This is true from my POV.
I can’t like just go “whelp my scumread says this is fine” and just change it?
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Post Post #1987 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:41 am

Post by Something_Smart »

To me it seems fairly evident that some people would be comfortable with the gamestate as scum and others would be uncomfortable, and therefore we can't really know whether they are happy with it without having a single flip.
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Post Post #1988 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:42 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1987, Something_Smart wrote:To me it seems fairly evident that some people would be comfortable with the gamestate as scum and others would be uncomfortable, and therefore we can't really know whether they are happy with it without having a single flip.
Ugh I need a new word

Instead of gamestate how about healthy conversations.

Does that explain better?
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Post Post #1989 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:42 am

Post by Critter »

Because I don’t see how anyone can view the past few days as healthy conversations.
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Post Post #1990 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:44 am

Post by Towelie »

I'll turn the snark down since I think you're at least attempting to engage me in good faith now:
I think that scum don’t push players that are not elimmable without some kind of benefit and they’d need a gamestate in which they can afford to do so?
I don't really understand your assertion here but will try to clarify mine: it was early-ish D1 and I don't think there was an obvious "scum are ahead/behind" but I do think that M&M was looking like a default safe spot for people to land, so a hypothesis of mine was that getting into a fight with me would be a good way to move the gamestate away from that from the time being, but only if m&m is scum with them. That was half of my argument why I think the two might be the same alignment (the other half that pooky pulling me back from the brink is not something scum M&M does to scum VFT)

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Post Post #1991 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:45 am

Post by Something_Smart »

I definitely see what you mean with that, but I'm not sure why the lack of healthy conversation would make scum more prone to pushing someone they can't execute. If anything, I feel like it might go the other way since people are probably going to be more accusatory and less charitable if the conversation isn't healthy.
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Post Post #1992 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:46 am

Post by Towelie »

In post 1986, Critter wrote:I can’t like just go “whelp my scumread says this is fine” and just change it?
I think you let confbias dictate a lot of the opinions you emit rather than consider that they're maybe wrong, sometimes to an extreme (and obnoxious, FMPOV) degree.

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Post Post #1993 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:49 am

Post by Towelie »

In post 1989, Critter wrote:healthy conversations.
if healthy conversations move the gamestate from "generally worse reads" to "generally better reads", which is what I think you mean here, then telling me that "I'm making the thread unhealthy because I'm scum and my opinions are having an effect on it" is tautological from your point of view and not useful from mine

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Post Post #1994 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:50 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1990, Towelie wrote:I'll turn the snark down since I think you're at least attempting to engage me in good faith now:
I think that scum don’t push players that are not elimmable without some kind of benefit and they’d need a gamestate in which they can afford to do so?
I don't really understand your assertion here but will try to clarify mine: it was early-ish D1 and I don't think there was an obvious "scum are ahead/behind" but I do think that M&M was looking like a default safe spot for people to land, so a hypothesis of mine was that getting into a fight with me would be a good way to move the gamestate away from that from the time being, but only if m&m is scum with them. That was half of my argument why I think the two might be the same alignment (the other half that pooky pulling me back from the brink is not something scum M&M does to scum VFT)

-b
In early D1 I agree M&M is a safe place to land.
A fight with you if it drew attention away would drive attention away.
However I don’t think the rest of the point that “only if M&M is scum with them” is correct.

Assuming that the pull is from scum and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Scum could be setting you up for a miselim future days.
Scum could be setting up credit for if M&M is town
Or Scum accept the fact that M&M is going down and want to make noise simply to “look Townie”

Assuming that the pull is from town and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Then the pull believes your are scum more than M&M. That doesn’t imply M&M a certain alignment
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Post Post #1995 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:51 am

Post by Critter »

This list isn’t all inclusive at all either but I don’t see the connection you’re making
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Post Post #1996 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:53 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1991, Something_Smart wrote:I definitely see what you mean with that, but I'm not sure why the lack of healthy conversation would make scum more prone to pushing someone they can't execute. If anything, I feel like it might go the other way since people are probably going to be more accusatory and less charitable if the conversation isn't healthy.
When I am scum, if town is at each other’s throats I don’t go out of my way to fix it or if I do I fix it in a proscum way. It’s a lot easier to add to the chaos with another push or mimic town than it is to heal things.
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Post Post #1997 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:55 am

Post by Towelie »

In post 1994, Critter wrote:Assuming that the pull is from scum and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Scum could be setting you up for a miselim future days.
Scum could be setting up credit for if M&M is town
Or Scum accept the fact that M&M is going down and want to make noise simply to “look Townie”
These are all possibilities, yes. That assertion is "something I think is more likely than not" based on the reasons I gave, not something I'm treating as airtight. This is probably true for most things I say in any game.
Assuming that the pull is from town and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Then the pull believes your are scum more than M&M. That doesn’t imply M&M a certain alignment
Not the point I was making -- M&M going out of way to save skitter just doesn't jibe w/ me at that second as something that scum-M&M would do to town-VFT right then.

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Post Post #1998 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:55 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1992, Towelie wrote:
In post 1986, Critter wrote:I can’t like just go “whelp my scumread says this is fine” and just change it?
I think you let confbias dictate a lot of the opinions you emit rather than consider that they're maybe wrong, sometimes to an extreme (and obnoxious, FMPOV) degree.

-b
I think sometimes, yes I do.
I just think a lot more times it’s people not listening or writing me off rather than this.
It creates a vicious cycle of
“I don’t get it it’s math just say they’re weird”
And then instead of what you don’t understand or not weird
I have to try to explain everything all over again
Then “nope don’t get it”
Then I try again and look like a stubborn asshole when there’s nothing else I can do
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Post Post #1999 (ISO) » Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:57 am

Post by Critter »

In post 1997, Towelie wrote:
In post 1994, Critter wrote:Assuming that the pull is from scum and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Scum could be setting you up for a miselim future days.
Scum could be setting up credit for if M&M is town
Or Scum accept the fact that M&M is going down and want to make noise simply to “look Townie”
These are all possibilities, yes. That assertion is "something I think is more likely than not" based on the reasons I gave, not something I'm treating as airtight. This is probably true for most things I say in any game.
Assuming that the pull is from town and you town and M&M unknown alignment
Then the pull believes your are scum more than M&M. That doesn’t imply M&M a certain alignment
Not the point I was making -- M&M going out of way to save skitter just doesn't jibe w/ me at that second as something that scum-M&M would do to town-VFT right then.

-b
I don’t view it as more likely.
I find that if something is easy and scum don’t take it there’s a reason why.
Especially when it’s Pooky/Noora.

I find that scum probably weren’t pushing out of a fear Pooky would smell BS.
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