open 841: concgratulations to the winners and losers

[Andante]

You have little internal consistency in the way you think about things and jump from one statement to another.

uhh there's plenty of consistency, I just don't say exactly every thought lol

[Mare]

You have little internal consistency in the way you think about things and jump from one statement to another.

uhh there's plenty of consistency, I just don't say exactly every thought lol

Thank goodness we’re mind readers.

[Andante]

I mean, yall already roast me for saying what I want to say, so why would I want to share my hot takes/every little thought?

[Alyssa The Lamb]

VOTE: Northsidegal

[Andante]

VOTE: Northsidegal

[schadd_]

feel the rain on your skin

vote count 2.3 !

northsidegal (3):

Datisi, Alyssa The Lamb, Andante

catboi (2):

SirCakez, skitter30

Mare (2):

midwaybear, catboi

SirCakez (2):

Menalque, Mare

not voting (2):

northsidegal, Something_Smart

11 are alive, and it takes 6 votes to posthumously nominate someone for the rock and roll hall of fame. day 2 ends in (expired on 2022-01-18 15:10:00)

other ideas

• did you know that skitter30 is vla on fridays and saturdays?
  
• yes? well did you know that datisi is vla on tuesdays and thursdays?
  
• one last thing: sircakez is vla through the 16th

[catboi]

VOTE: nsg

shrug

[skitter30]

Dont know if we need e1 but i'm on board in spirit ^

[Andante]

this is real exciting! like, I honestly tr Alyssa and cat's nsg votes here, we either need something from nsg, or we yeet. showing up, saying you're gonna read, then saying nothing? that's like exactly what I do as maf lol "I'll read later"

[catboi]

ftr my vote is literally just a "do things" vote

[Andante]

So I'm bored as heck, headache is gone, guess I'm casing nsg here, cause like, no one is doing anything, and there's probably a reason we want to pressure nsg

Actually I kinda want to go back and look at the numbers selected by scum in the 5th position because that feels like not a coincidence.

that seems like it could be the position of "pick a high number to avoid the single digit collisions but still end up near the top". i imagine the prototypical scumteam draft is either all three low or two low one hedge like that, so post-hoc i can see how it makes sense

^Reading this from nsg makes me feel like maf heavily discussed numbers, and then after seeing draft heavily discussed roles and who'd probably claim what, like, this comment feels more like a maf comment than a town comment to me. So that would likely make SS town, and nsg maf jumping in like "ah yes, I can talk numbers too!! I am knowledgable! cause we just talked a lot about numbers in maf chat"

i realize that this is like a weird cryptic comment, but andante if you are town this game then i look forward to playing with you as scum - i believe there's a tell that might work on you, and it's one of my favorite tells to use.

^ I'm not even sure what this is saying, but it's a weird comment, like I remember the tell thing that gets brought up later, along with this giant meta dive thing for why I'm town. Like, I don't think it was even doubted that I was town thus far, so maf loses nothing by towncasing a universal tr, I'll come back to this thought in a few posts.

I mean like all of this makes sense to me, or at least I understand her

Spoiler:

Okay, my counterpoint:

I viscerally felt that SirCakez was scum from the moment he began posting in a previous game. I cop checked him N1 and he was elimmed the next day.

Why should I ignore it when I get the same exact feeling from his posts here? Should I not immediately press on something familiar when I am familiar with it as scum?

And, let me say, once more.

I really don't give a fuck if he's catching up. People do it. I dislike it. Whatever.

I dislike what he's saying.

Okay, my counterpoint:

I viscerally felt that SirCakez was scum from the moment he began posting in a previous game. I cop checked him N1 and he was elimmed the next day.

Why should I ignore it when I get the same exact feeling from his posts here? Should I not immediately press on something familiar when I am familiar with it as scum?

i mean your visceral feeling is: a) not something you brought up as part of any of this earlier in this convo b) not something that i feel/vibe/have any opinion on
so it's just like ok?

and my response is basically, again, you're scumreading him for something that's nai, and i'm a little surprised that you're not seeing why i think it's nai

I don't believe the things he's saying are NAI. To say you dislike/like something, to invoke tone, means you are providing your opinions on someone. And that's AI.

To say "I dislike this, I find it weird," to place a vote because of that? How is that NAI?

Like you want to be ? but you're sitting here saying that he hasn't done anything AI which is patently false soooo.

Honestly it almost seems like a like funhouse mirror version of the conversation we were having. You're arguing that some feeling she has is nai and she's saying it isn't, sort of like what I was saying to you.

Also it's just weird to me to see you say "you're scumreading him for something nai" when she explicitly says she's talking about a feeling and not just like catching up or whatever

^ I feel like this is maf, knowing Mare is town, trying to get Mare on maf's side, like "hey, I know you're town. join my side." it's not really trying to convince anyone that mare is in fact town, but instead just "I know mare is town"

Also given new information about who mare is this doesn't seem to resemble what I know of her scumplay

^ more "I know she's town" but nothing to actually convince anyone

back and catching up sorry, anyone want to get my super hot takes on things as i'm reading up

"I'm catching up, but I'm not gonna share much that I learn from this catch up"

having done a bit of meta diving my townread on andante has been strengthened and i now actually think that flow trap is probably town (despite having leaned towards him being scum after reading through the thread but before doing the meta dive).

i used to be of the opinion (and i suppose that i still am) that you should sort of keep some meta tells close to the chest so that you can re-use them later or people don't adapt to them, but i don't think that i play enough for this to still be relevant for me. plus, i probably need something to actually talk about anyways rather than just giving some boring reads and then dipping out.

one thing that stood out to me a lot was andante's very strong reaction not even to being voted, but to even the insinuation that she might not be town.

Spoiler:

Ummm I think my town games speak for themselves lol uhhh the games here... most games are things I've replaced into, but why iseveryone so concerned about scum!Andante?? I literally die tonight scum knows I'm a pr lol plus I've actually been doing stuff,

so we're not entertaining this andante!scum idea

I think that this sort of reaction is a little extreme, or at least is uncalled for given how "soft" my posts on the subject so far have been.

The literal very first words in my post that you quote there is "without even necessarily disagreeing with the townread". In other words, the questions that I'm asking skitter there are really more a probing of skitter herself rather than any sort of conversation specifically regarding you – if even

that small of a level

of tangentially questioning your alignment makes you uncomfortable, I'm not really sure what to say.

Ok, now I'm addressing that "you can't read andante the way you are" crap...
Unless you have some sort of solid "Andante in this game as scum did exactly this" I do not want to hear 1 more time... "you can't TR andante if you don't know her scum game"

Personally, I think my scum games are pretty good, I'm proud of them, however, just cause I'm not terrible scum, it doesn't mean we need to start tossing around "Well she's from EM" "look up meta!!" seriously. I am here to solve the game. and that is what I'd like to do. I'm not solving my alignment. If you want to dig through my games, have at it. Make sure it's actually over though.

But I do not want to hear 1 more post about how someone else isn't allowed to TR me cause they haven't read one of my scum games...

page 28 was angering me

.

like i said in that post, i felt like this was a surprising or extreme reaction in proportion to the posts that i had made, but i didn't immediately know how to interpret it: as some kind of scum sensitivity to her position as a consensus townread being questioned, or as a genuine example of this one meta trait that would indicate that she's town. having done a little bit of meta review, i think that it's more likely to be the latter. the "meta trait" is this (datisi might actually remember this one, i just now realized that i brought this up in that white flag game that i played horribly in) – certain people may tend not to get eliminated as town very often. often, the type of people who tend not to get eliminated as town are the ones who really dig their heels in and fight

a lot

when that becomes a possibility for them as town. sometimes you can tell that these kinds of players are scum because, when being pushed for elimination, they don't fight as hard as they typically do as town – i first learned about this tell when nachomamma used it in a bombshell case on myself actually, because i was getting pushed but didn't really seem to have a lot of heart in fighting it.

based on what i saw of andante's other games, my estimation is that the reaction that she had in this game to what i was saying is more likely to be an example of that sort of strong desire to not be eliminated as town than it is some kind of scum reaction. i guess i'm sort of wasting my breath here anyways because nobody really seems to disagree that she's town?? i don't know, i just actually like this tell a lot, it's fun to talk about and i'm now the mafia equivalent of an old person who just wants to tell people stories from their past so just let me have this

^ "2 posts after I told yall I'm catching up, I tell you how I meta dived on Andante, and I'll talk about this tell I learned than means andante is town!" like, nsg seems to fill space by talking about me, when a read on me day 1, didn't really matter... I think it's just to fill space, and "look busy" tbh

as for flow trap i'll try to be a bit less wordy and just get to the point (and also i guess keep the amount i say proportional to my degree of confidence?), it seems like he has more fun as town and is more serious as scum and this game seems to match the former rather than the latter.

^ "Now for my read on a non universal tr, I'm gonna use like no words to call them town" like, I just don't like how I think I (Andante) am the only one NSG explains a read on, like, yeah, I'm typically an easy read sure. I had like no heat day 1, I don't think anyone was considering me for the chopping block, yet giant cases on me as to why I'm town?? looking back, it feels super unnecessary.

i agree with the logic that SS as scum would be trying more to look towny and it matches my memory of playing against (and losing against) him as scum, but at the same time it feels bad to actually put someone down as town based on that reasoning. so i guess i can just continue putting the problem of reading him off

^ I already think scum!NSG earlier slipped that SS was town, so maf here going "yeah SS town, but I'm not commiting to a read till later" like honestly, SS's day 1, I SRed most of it, his day 2 has been a lot better, but "I can't tr someone off this reasoning that I know they're town... so I'm giving a later read" ehhhh I think I'm being sold on the idea NSG is maf here

i guess i'm somewhere around here

{nsg}
{andante, flow}
{IV, mare, SS}
{skitter, cakez, SA, pooky, faker, datisi} - null
{midway}

i predict that i will probably scumread sleepless assassin after he makes his big post. really don't know how to feel about datisi – i see all of the things that people are prodding him over and i see his responses and and i understand his responses completely and despite maybe seeming unlikely on the surface i feel like i relate to how all of them could be genuine... but i don't know if that makes him town or just means that the things people are pushing him for aren't actually scummy. in other words, i don't really read his posts as towny, but none of the reasons people seem to be giving or talking about for him being scum really resonate with me.

midway still seems scummy but i'm unsatisfied voting there with such a large null pool to sort.

ehhh guess I don't like that "here's a readslist, but I'm not really explaining my midway SR, told you why I TRed people"

So if I had to guess, NSG maf, did not TR a partner, TRed the "universal TRs" like, I kept calling flow town cause why not, looking at NSG's "reads" it's like "Oh, Andante TRs flow? ok, yeah flow is town" doesn't seem to question flow like at all, so NSG is likely maf, not with flow, knows flow town, thought flow was obv town. cause if flow was a partner, there's no way NSG wouldn't be like "uhhh actually I sr flow" so that leaves NSG as partners with Skitter/Cakez/Pooky/Dats/midway, and honestly, that's probably not far off, like, I TR skitter, taking her out. Maf is NSG and 2/3 are in Cakez/Pooky(Mena)/Dats/Midway, that's a pool I'd believe...

[Andante]

So tldr: I'm pretty sold on NSG being maf and Cakez/Pooky(Mena)/Dats/Midway is gonna contain 2.
(meant to add tldr to post above)

[Andante]

So tldr: I'm pretty sold on NSG being maf and Cakez/Pooky(Mena)/Dats/Midway is gonna contain 2.
(meant to add tldr to post above)

ooh catboi got forgotten, not 100% sure how to interpret that, but no way maf forgets their partner, so I'm still sold on NSG + 2 of cake/pooky/dats/midway

which makes this a fairly easy game, only Mena has not been here and I still haven't looked at midway...

[skitter30]

^ I feel like this is maf, knowing Mare is town, trying to get Mare on maf's side, like "hey, I know you're town. join my side." it's not really trying to convince anyone that mare is in fact town, but instead just "I know mare is town"

Eh this was to me and doesnt bother me so much tbh, she was trying to explain her mare read

I'm really kinda more concerned with where she went wrong on sleepless and how she's viewing the game after the fact

[schadd_]

prodding menalque

[Andante]

^ I feel like this is maf, knowing Mare is town, trying to get Mare on maf's side, like "hey, I know you're town. join my side." it's not really trying to convince anyone that mare is in fact town, but instead just "I know mare is town"

Eh this was to me and doesnt bother me so much tbh, she was trying to explain her mare read

I'm really kinda more concerned with where she went wrong on sleepless and how she's viewing the game after the fact

I mean, it's stuff TRed about Mare, which ehhh I'm half tempted to just sheep the cake wagon, and if that's maf, autovote nsg, but if cake is town.. idk so uhhh I think NSG >Cake is the better idea

[midwaybear]

My yolo-whatever solve is something stupid like skitter/Andante/Cakez

UNVOTE:
Well, I did have this thought too so you can get an unvote ig. Game's hard. Except I don't really think Andante is scum. If skitter is scum, she is just wking Andante.
I get the bad feeling that nsg won't really react to the wagon and she'll either lurk out completely or give some content that isn't super readable. I don't really have an opinion on her slot, but this just seems to be continuing things that don't work.
I don't really townread SS pushing Andante because she is such an easy push for scum to make in general. I think most slots have pushed her to some extent this game anyways. So unless you think SS is just incapable of conviction as scum, I don't really buy it.
Anyways, my other tinfoil team is ss/nsg/mena.

[skitter30]

idk why this whole game feels like molasses and like we can't do anything

[midwaybear]

I don't really have an opinion on her slot, but this just seems to be continuing things that don't work.

Actually, nsg does have a decentish chance of ebing scum so i think this is ok.
Also i tr alyssa for trying to get wagons going.

[Andante]

Unless people want to play, can we just flip NSG here? like, no one is doing anything. is that cause what? they agree with this wagon? they disagree and hope ignoring makes it go away??? idk I’m too drunk for this tonight, but like come on people, let’s do something… if you tr NSG speak up… if you have any thoughts… share…

[midwaybear]

idk why this whole game feels like molasses and like we can't do anything

imagine if we're all just town arguing with each other

[Andante]

midway just being here is starting to make me tr him. so maf is nsg and a 2/3 of cake/mena/dats. gg easy game

[skitter30]

i think we are

i really do want town-nsg to share her thoughts but i'm kinda reaching my limit for how long we can wait for her, the day has been open for close to 5 irl days and in that time we've basically had 2 posts promising content without any

[Andante]

idk why this whole game feels like molasses and like we can't do anything

imagine if we're all just town arguing with each other

I mean, mena + nsg are likely 2, so yes… town is arguing with town here

[Andante]

i think we are

i really do want town-nsg to share her thoughts but i'm kinda reaching my limit for how long we can wait for her, the day has been open for close to 5 irl days and in that time we've basically had 2 posts promising content without any

there’s a point where it’s like, no way this is town nsg, town nsg would have given some sort of content last night, knowing she’s said nothing d2