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[House]

VP inno'd A50 (which we now know is legit), of course he was the nk.

[Datisi]

Yes that's insane tinfoil IMO and a little scummy.

what's scummy about wondering who was the nightkill and who was the vigshot based on the fact that there has been a vig-related role claimed, and based on the fact that a scummy person got killed lols

[House]

Yes that's insane tinfoil IMO and a little scummy.

what's scummy about wondering who was the nightkill and who was the vigshot based on the fact that there has been a vig-related role claimed, and based on the fact that a scummy person got killed lols

Refer to 2000.

Trying to muddy the water on the nk is scummy. It's obvious who scum shot.

[House]

Sorry for Outworld flipping green.

That was my best guess.

[Datisi]

Trying to muddy the water on the nk is scummy. It's obvious who scum shot.

so... i'm scummy because... i correctly called out who was the vig shot?

[Datisi]

you know what

YOU KNOW WHAT

VOTE: mathblade

mafia commuter, i'm fucking calling it

i spent the last 48 hours thinking how either my reads are wrong (strong tr on vp, scumread on math) or the reality is wrong, and it might just be that the reality was wrong

[House]

I'd sooner yeet you.

[House]

Anywho.

Bedtime.

[Frogsterking]

Old reads from the grave:

I think you're town.

I think OWER's iso regarding you/lapla is not great

nobody is even suspecting you.

OWER IS TOWN

YOURE TOWN

SIITTER IS TOWN

HOUSE IS TOWN

DATISI IS TOWN

just fuckin trust me for d1

This is one of my d1s where I'm fucking up scum just let me do my thing

Just gonna continue repeating this in the hopes this gets through tomorrow, even tho it prob wont:

- math is scummy
- make vp verify claim
- scum on wagon
- frog is town
- ari prob town

Just gonna continue repeating this in the hopes this gets through tomorrow, even tho it prob wont:

- math is scummy
- make vp verify claim
- scum on wagon
- frog is town
- ari prob town

Again if this goes thru plz look at math tomorrow ^^^

Also these last like 4 votes are sus as anything

Again look at math
Make vp claim his mechanical stuff
Iv is sus

Idk that's what i have

Dont vote frog

PLAYER LIST
Andresvmb
VP Baltar
Datisi
skitter30
OutWorldER
Reformed Toxic Player
Something_Smart
Aristeia
innocentvillager
Laplacian
Frogst erking
House
Almost50ndresvmbVP BaltarDatisiskitter30OutWorldERReformed Toxic PlayerSomething_SmartAristeiainnocentvillagerLaplacianFrogsterkingHouseAlmost50

I tr andres dats outworlder ari frog house

Scum is in the rest

Yeah, I'd agree that the other scum were likely off wagon.

Can you walk me through your reason for believing this?

RTP is already flipped, assuming you are town and you are being truthful about your info on A50's slot, then A50/Math is town. House is all but conftown because of the mason claim. Frogster had been pushing Laplacian basically since they arrived to the game and was one of the kickstarters of it along with RTP.

The only viable candidates for a bus are Datisi, Andres, and Ari. Datisi's push before Lap in 194 and 211 do not read as distancing to me and the same goes for his pushes later in the day, nor does Datisi have a reason to kill RTP. The same goes for Ari and Andres, I don't think either of those slots kill RTP N1.

I mean, yeah, S_S has been apathetic, to the point that he has not made a single vote this entire game and consistently dances around major events/wagons. He's active lurking through and through.

I absolutely want to kill S_S at some point but I think Skitter is better today.

Skitter and VP are the only ones I realistically could see killing RTP, and I already explained why I think VP is town/no reason to lim him today, so Skitter is the only option here I think.

VOTE: Skitter

right, D2 started at a bad time for me, trying to catch up while tired, my thoughts will probably be really scattered.

I think VPB's posting today is bad but in the "town who is overly paranoid" kinda bad and his claimed info on A50/Math means there's no reason to lim him today regardless.
I fundamentally disagree with I_V being given a townpass for the mason claim, I think House is all but conftown but I've been in a situation before where town fakeclaims and accidentally clears a scum (in the same game I was with Frogster) and really would not enjoy a repeat of that.

Scum would not need to kill RTP to push through a lim on you, especially since RTP seemed completely set on You/Skitter. That was my point, that if Skitter was town then scum would have no reason to kill RTP, since RTP would most likely drive through Skitter's mislim themselves.

I think regardless of anything, Skitter needs to get flipped today.

Man, listen to me: first, RTP is not someone I'd be afraid to go against if I was scum. They are a good player, but it is not that difficult to spin them up. Look how tilted they were getting yesterday at me asking very basic questions. I was not even trying to provoke them, which i would do as scum. Second, when I'm town, I'm never going to eat a misyeet. I will always fight tooth and claw because that's my win condition. I don't think this is a secret about me. Scum leaving RTP alive to fight me is a major gamble as scum because there is simply a nonzero chance that fight ends in people realizing I'm playing in my town meta. That's compared to RTP is dead and a gang of people start the day today saying "lol brain off, we do what RTP would have wanted! Vote: vp". Hell, some people continued to poke around it even after I softed I had clearing info on Math.

Third, as I stated before, there are all kinds of players in this game with histories with koba, and any number of reasons to want them out. They play a wildcard game, and that is never good if you are scum. Period.

Fourth, if the scum IS Datisi or Ari, who do you NK other than RTP? The masons are probably something you avoid because they are protection/watcher bait. You dont touch the people who are barely playing, and me/A50 were yeet bait to start the day. RTP is a logical kill spot to get out a decent player who could sideline your narrative and get super stubborn at any point.

Datisi's push before Lap in 194 and 211 do not read as distancing to me and the same goes for his pushes later in the day

Be more specific. What about datisi's push indicates he is town?

As far as the "X would never kill RTP" argument, I find that completely silly. There are many reasons to kill RTP, including trying to smear me. It's very first order thinking to say scum only kill people who are actively pushing them. Is that a consideration? Sure! Is it the only reason to make a NK? Absolutely not.

The only other person besides me in RTP's solve, if you believe that logic, is IV. And even if you believe he is scum, who is the other scum? Clearly one of the scum did not have this direct motivation to kill RTP, so my point is proven true.

I think the most likely is one and one. Both would be a bit heavy handed and from what I have read didn’t seem like that.

This is my guess as well.

I don't have that much of a strong instinct for which of the folks on was it. I went into the night hoping it was A50 and this was easy, but that's just not the case.

I find it fairly unlikely neither remaining scum would want to be on the lap wagon when he was so underwater. That would seem like a POE risk to me if I was scum.

god this is stupid

if my scum plan is to flip a50, then once he flips green, turn that into a scumcase for vp and skitt, why the fuck do i say that plan outloud day 2 instead of pretending to reread the game "in light of green!a50" day 3 and come to that conclusion then

this just opens the door for me being accused of chaining, which is something i'm well aware as scum and wouldn't do it

even if i didn't get accused of it today, someone would've made the callback tomorrow once i started pushing vp and/or skitt

and i love how all of this completely ignores the preflip i did on a50 flipping red, yep sure definitely single minded here totally just put my scumplan out there and now i'm going shocked pikachu face for being pushed for things i know towns find scummy and that would actually be LESS EFFORT for scum me to NOT POST

BRILLIANT

Just going to say that "I would never do...." is not a convincing argument to me.

You can post it if you want, but that line of thought is mostly a waste for me. I don't think it's unreasonable for scum to speculate they could get a50/me flipped in either order with few questions from a town that is highly suggestable.

WHO am i trying to keep happy here??

Ari and andres obv if they are town are part of the coalition I'd be trying to form if I was in your shoes. It is potentially a pocketing play to say "welp, nothing to see here, let's yeet this potential busser a50, and if that is wrong, the wagon of a weak ass scum is pure and we should turn to VP".

That's a pretty obvious strategy in a scum!datisi world.

the dude that is barely even playing, and someone whose only purpose in the game seems to be sheeping me ALREADY, both people that have next to none influence on the thread as a whole

You and I both know this is not true, especially in the long term. Both ari and andres are good players who DO influence the game, especially in later days.

@Math - I do see you think this fight is TvT, and you may be right, but I do think it is important to have. Giving Datisi a free pass is danger zone. His point of view needs to be thoroughly stress tested.

I feel like there was someone on the scumteam who was highly in tune with the game and was basically telling Lap "you're dead, stop posting".

And this person was????

s_s, have you done a single ai thing this game?

^real talk

I don't think VPB claimed PR if that's what you think he did

No, but he softed the shit out of it.

i really REALLY don't think baltar of either alignment goes from "kill a50" to "a50 is conftown" without some sort of mech info, and i don't think this is exactly rocket surgery for scum to figure out either, which is why i'm fine talking about it with this level of openness

Sure, let's be absolutely clear: i received information last night. A50 is town. I won't be discussing the way that information came to me because scum trying to actually figure it out is an exercise in futility. I chose to release said info to stop a wasted discussion about a50 and to completely flip the script on any narratives scum wanted to open today with.

The fact multiple people came out today with "let's sheep Koba, vote:vp!" shows scum could have easily come into today pushing a couple easy misyeets had I not turned that plan on its head.

ari and andres have admittedly weak votes on lapla. but those weak votes make no sense as bussing votes. what do scum!andres or scum!ari gain by blindly sheeping me/rtp onto the wagon, and not even trying to divert any attention elsehwere?

they're not getting towncred for the vote,

they're not opening the door for any other yeet, they're not setting up shit, they're just gamethrowing.

Isn't this literally what you're doing right now?

I agree they are non-controlling of the wagon, but ari was always going to sheep you D1 as meta. If that sheep happens to go onto a weak buddy, that seems like something that is going to be considered town-indicative generally. I have a hard time imagining a world where Ari in particular comes out double barreled on D1 and people aren't asking questions about her meta, at least from what I saw last game with her. I find it somewhat weird you have no paranoia or suspicion of the Lap wagon having bus potential when he just straight spaghettied himself and then left the thread at the mildest pressure.

That reads a lot to me like you wanting to keep townies happy.

i get why me saying "a50 is most likely scum, if he's town then it's in vp/skitter" looks unfortunate if you're town and you have info on a50 being town. like, i get it. but look at everything else that points at me being town - i can go through each and every one of my scumgames on site to show why this isn't how i play around my partners. iv can vouch for the sheer level of planning i do as scum, especially when we're planning theatre. lapla fell apart, that doesn't happen if i'm there.

Iv, I'd like to hear your assessment on whether you think it is possible Datisi bussed lap.

vetoing any push on datisi until limlo ty

I care!

ok thats bc u trust every claim and crutch mechs

i point to large 236 where i simply steamroll an FN claim in lieu of a strong scumread on kyouko

This is similar here

I will steamroll this slot no matter what it claims

in a mason world, a backup claim becomes much more suspicious to me

ok well just fucking vote lap then and we can talk about where to go from there d2.

i honestly have doubts about your mason claim and won't be believing it until one of you 2 are night flipped


if you make it to limlo do not maintain the claim if you truly are just neighbors is all i ask

house is town

if house is fakeclaiming and willing to throw the game though and IV isn't really a mason ill be really pissed

\

fwiw i think house is more likely neighbors with IV and just townreads IV

this is something to keep in mind if neither flips over the course of the next couple night phases

the level of detail and effort put into that analysis is still towny and you're just lost in the sauce of being masons

frog is still town

stand down

you're exhibiting mason ego

?

IV seems to have spewed they arent aware of anything


can u explain what you mean

andres is like never caught up rofl


SS i could reread to make sure im not wrong but im pretty consistently good at reading SS as ive caught scum him in 2 recent games(well, 1 from spec chat)

tho
uh

tbf i caught him cuz he complained about something that is unfair to scum lol

so maybe my scumdar on him is just when he exits his townrange

i'm vetoing SS and andres sorry

yes im null on a50 which is - again - why i am ok with the wagon on him rn but i wanna push my own preferred wagon


i like competing wagons

especially if i think theyre scum v scum

i think SS is in his town meta because as scum he kinda feels different energy wise


and andres i think is also in town meta even tho i havent seen his scum game - but ill leave him alive for 1 day regardless cuz he gets fearkilled a lot bc he really gets stronger as the game goes on

[Datisi]

Sorry for Outworld flipping green.

That was my best guess.

I'd sooner yeet you.

the fact that these two posts are one after the other is some major oof from me, boss

who's scum then? the couterwagon to lapla on d1 was made out of skitt, vp, and you. i'm treating you as town, the other two are flipped. is doesn't make any sense

this game doesn't make sense with math being town

unless the scum is like, iv/andre and they've spent the whole game twiddling their fucking thumbs while we push each other into oblivion

[Andresvmb]

@Datisi why is Frogsterking Town here to you again? Can you walk me through that? Because I’m reading 924 and thinking to myself - how is this not Scum backtracking after pushing a really strong case against Scum in 592, only to get back on that wagon later? I see one important commonality between the wagon that pushed Laplacian (which I am also inclined to think contained a busser mind you, though why Mathblade insisted so hard in starting there is well beyond me), and the Skitter wagon, and that’s Frogsterking. And how do you make sense of the backtrack after a post like 785? It’s funny, it’s not even that subtle - they were really trying to get RTP to move away in 901.

1857 now reads like Scum just egging on a Town execution, and I think Frogsterking is sidelining the wrong voices in an attempt to pocket certain players (such as Math) and lead down the wrong path. Their vote for Ari around 1699 is awful, and then shading there makes no sense. I am truly amazed we’re totally ignoring Frogsterking as potential Scum.

I also read that post by S_S and took the absolute opposite conclusion. I thought it was totally unlike Scum to want to say that Skitter was not in their Town meta there.

[Andresvmb]

I went back and read D2 in detail and I really do think Frog looks awful if you look at the totality of posts. I just can’t understand why they seemed to want to bury Laplacian so much only to then move

away

from that. If I am looking at a player and I make an argument as solid as the one Frogsterking seemed to make, I would never move. It’s just bizarre to me.

[Datisi]

I see one important commonality between the wagon that pushed Laplacian (which I am also inclined to think contained a busser mind you, though why Mathblade insisted so hard in starting there is well beyond me), and the Skitter wagon, and that’s Frogsterking.

didn't both me and ari also be on both of those wagons? and math-slot for that matter?

[Andresvmb]

I see one important commonality between the wagon that pushed Laplacian (which I am also inclined to think contained a busser mind you, though why Mathblade insisted so hard in starting there is well beyond me), and the Skitter wagon, and that’s Frogsterking.

didn't both me and ari also be on both of those wagons? and math-slot for that matter?

I TR you and Ari quite strongly, and I am trusting VPB’s clear quite frankly.

[Datisi]

weren't we both on those wagons* jfc english is difficult

i'll read the posts you linked in a bit, but the thing is, wrt 2011, if a scum player actually is planning to make such a huge fucking case against their buddy like frogs did against lapla, i think they would never ever get off from that wagon because at that point, the whole idea is to bus them into the ground and reap towncred from the redflip

[House]

the fact that these two posts are one after the other is some major oof from me, boss

Idk why. Never stated an intention to wagon you.

Just gave you a heads up as to who I'd support in a 1v1.

[Datisi]

VPB’s clear

roleblocker
rolestopper
jailkeeper
alien
ascetic
commuter
math is scummy (:(:(:(:(:(::(:(:(:(

[Datisi]

baltar didn't crumb his n1 action, he crashed a truck full of bread

[Andresvmb]

weren't we both on those wagons* jfc english is difficult

i'll read the posts you linked in a bit, but the thing is, wrt 2011, if a scum player actually is planning to make such a huge fucking case against their buddy like frogs did against lapla, i think they would never ever get off from that wagon because at that point, the whole idea is to bus them into the ground and reap towncred from the redflip

They didn’t just get off though. They tried to convince RTP to move away. The giant case is all great. I agree it’s quite strong. But where’s the Towny conviction? It just seems strategic more than a real read. Read that post again, and tell me you wouldn’t want to bury a player you had said all those things about. How can you explain the shift away from the wagon, if not Scum chickening out?

[Datisi]

i think s_s is the other

if i poweryeet scum today, will you trust me and get math tomorrow

[House]

i think s_s is the other

if i poweryeet scum today, will you trust me and get math tomorrow

[House]

Might not even wait.

[Datisi]

ok i lied i'm not that certain on s_s, i have no clue who the third is

but like, my point of "math's actions at the end of d2 were Extremely Sketch and the wagon on a50 on d1 makes no sense, to the point where i might even be ready to yeet through a 'clear'" still stands

[Andresvmb]

i think s_s is the other

if i poweryeet scum today, will you trust me and get math tomorrow

Look I’ve been reading S_S. I’m not seeing S_S Scum. I’m also not going to fully discount the possibility that there are modifiers in the game that might disrupt VPB’s role, and Math has been too stubborn against Ari pushing a mathematical argument that I really don’t buy, but I think the odds point firmly at Math being Town. The odds of VPB hitting a Scum player with a Modifier that protects them from the Weak Disloyal Fruit Vendor (cool role btw) are just not great. And I’m sure you’re not of the thought that the entire Scum Team has modifiers that would shield them from that role (it’s possible one does, and Laplacian did flip Goon, but really?).

[Andresvmb]

I do think Scum with Ascetic as a Modifier is more likely than not to Claim it as well, only to protect against the possibility of being checked in some way and not having a strong defense (or having their Modifier then come out at the worst possible time for them). Did Math ever hint at being negative utility?