Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Greeting]

actually I also just noticed that this:

I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game.

is dissonant from this:

I am not sure why Roden is a leading wagon considering he has barely said anything. If it's a pressure wagon then fine. But he hasn't said much.

if you consciously ignored his posts, why did you feel the need to say you're not sure why he's a wagon? like I get possibly wanting to cut Roden some early game slack and not join the wagon, but you actually defended him here moreso than just ignore the situation. and if you were truly like "I'm not going to try to read anything into his posts at all", then you definitely should not have been questioning a wagon on him

You have just said that every justification I said in this game feels fake to you. If that's the case, then there is no point in me wasting my time talking to you. Feel free to vote me.

[Greeting]

For the record, I think

GuiltyLion

is town. But I'm not fighting battles I can't win.

Come back if you actually want to talk, game solve and discuss, rather then find arguments to support a pre-existing thesis.

[Vivax]

I like this post. Could see myself voting RR today.
I wonder if Kuti would agree.

why do you think that post comes from town and not scum?

and why did you bring up Kuti specifically?

I can't deny there's OMGUS behind liking this post at the time.
I had the impression so far in this game that furtiveglance and RR kept playing as a thorn in my sides. But in a too tunneled, fearless way. As if it was meant to be that way even though they could be town.

Maybe Greeting baited me in agreeing there by exploiting that. So I suppose I should explore the chance they're mafia.

[Vivax]

Oh and I asked Kuti cause I thought they'd like to be asked about their opinion and the read on Greeting could prove useful down the line.

[Datisi]

vote count 1.05

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

KittyTacky [3]:

fireisredsir, Bell, Vivax

Greeting [3]:

furtiveglance, Radical Rat, Loki Dokie

Roden [2]:

Dannflor, Aristeia

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

not voting [3]:

KittyTacky, kutiplz, GuiltyLion

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

[Vivax]

And I'd add that if kuti is mafia (seems less vocal from what I'd expect from them as town), them not replying to me asking about that could be from a situation where they'd have to commit to agreeing with a mafia teammate (Greeting). Might stem from them being nervous about looking like that. But I can't dismiss other reasons.

[fireisredsir]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

actually I also just noticed that this:

I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game.

is dissonant from this:

I am not sure why Roden is a leading wagon considering he has barely said anything. If it's a pressure wagon then fine. But he hasn't said much.

if you consciously ignored his posts, why did you feel the need to say you're not sure why he's a wagon? like I get possibly wanting to cut Roden some early game slack and not join the wagon, but you actually defended him here moreso than just ignore the situation. and if you were truly like "I'm not going to try to read anything into his posts at all", then you definitely should not have been questioning a wagon on him

You have just said that every justification I said in this game feels fake to you. If that's the case, then there is no point in me wasting my time talking to you. Feel free to vote me.

For the record, I think

GuiltyLion

is town. But I'm not fighting battles I can't win.

Come back if you actually want to talk, game solve and discuss, rather then find arguments to support a pre-existing thesis.

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

[Greeting]

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

Why do you think you have the right to judge whether my reactions are appropriate or not? I am not having this discussion.

[Radical Rat]

Is there a discussion you WILL have?

[fireisredsir]

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

Why do you think you have the right to judge whether my reactions are appropriate or not? I am not having this discussion.

this is a game of mafia lol

i have the right to judge whether you're scum or not

refusing to address any points made and shutting down any discussion about yourself while also accusing other people of being unwilling to work with you is very scummy

[Greeting]

Is there a discussion you WILL have?

That depends, if someone is coming to discuss with an open mind then sure. But if someone has already pre-decided my alignment then no, there is nothing to discuss, and all that is left is to vote me out. I have played enough games to know that changing that person's mind is a waste of time.

[Greeting]

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

Why do you think you have the right to judge whether my reactions are appropriate or not? I am not having this discussion.

this is a game of mafia lol

i have the right to judge whether you're scum or not

refusing to address any points made and shutting down any discussion about yourself while also accusing other people of being unwilling to work with you is very scummy

You do have the right to judge whether I'm scum or not. But you do not have the right to tell me that my reactions are not appropriate. I also have the right to not work with players who I think are scum and biased town if I don't feel like it.

[Radical Rat]

Is there a discussion you WILL have?

That depends, if someone is coming to discuss with an open mind then sure. But if someone has already pre-decided my alignment then no, there is nothing to discuss, and all that is left is to vote me out. I have played enough games to know that changing that person's mind is a waste of time.

Have you considered that even if you fail to change someone's mind, the interactions you leave behind may be useful for the surviving Town?

[Greeting]

Perhaps it would be better for me to take a step back from this game until tomorrow.

[Dannflor]

VOTE: Greeting

GL why are you town reading Roden?

[furtiveglance]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

actually I also just noticed that this:

I consciously decided to ignore his pre-existing 4 posts when I joined the game.

is dissonant from this:

I am not sure why Roden is a leading wagon considering he has barely said anything. If it's a pressure wagon then fine. But he hasn't said much.

if you consciously ignored his posts, why did you feel the need to say you're not sure why he's a wagon? like I get possibly wanting to cut Roden some early game slack and not join the wagon, but you actually defended him here moreso than just ignore the situation. and if you were truly like "I'm not going to try to read anything into his posts at all", then you definitely should not have been questioning a wagon on him

You have just said that every justification I said in this game feels fake to you. If that's the case, then there is no point in me wasting my time talking to you. Feel free to vote me.

For the record, I think

GuiltyLion

is town. But I'm not fighting battles I can't win.

Come back if you actually want to talk, game solve and discuss, rather then find arguments to support a pre-existing thesis.

these posts are massive overreactions to reasonable points made and i don't think there's any real reason town greeting should be so dismissive of GL here

GL is like one of the most reasonable people on site and i think it is always a good idea to talk to him and try to work through his reads and get him on the right track if he's wrongfully scumreading you

nothing that greeting is saying here makes sense as a reaction to what is happening imo, just feels like extremely fake indignation to try to match the self-righteousness that town greeting often has

You're calling GL 'reasonable'.......you're sure he's town then?

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Greeting

for some reason I thought there were like 5 voters

That depends, if someone is coming to discuss with an open mind then sure. But if someone has already pre-decided my alignment then no, there is nothing to discuss, and all that is left is to vote me out. I have played enough games to know that changing that person's mind is a waste of time.

Here, I can reach out. One of my biggest issues is that I really don't vibe with your reasoning on Rat at all - I think regardless of Rat's alignment, he as a person thought it would be fun to act as a computer for the beginning of the game. I've played with him a few times before, and I also still weirdly have a memory of reading this particular post in a very old game of his and finding it really funny. He has a sense of humor.

What I don't understand is why you seem particularly hung up on this idea that it can only be a front to mask awkwardness at the start of the game. Rat is an experienced player, I'm sure he has scumgames in the past where he didn't need to use such a front. It's just really easy for me to imagine a world where town!Rat opens the way he opened this game, it doesn't strike me as alignment indicative at all. but it feels like you're locked in on this reason you have and I don't feel you considering the alternative town!Rat world, which makes me think it's driven by agenda.

Can you recall and link me to any town games in your past where you locked on someone early game for a reason in a similar way (doesn't have to be specifically using a charade/front, could be any reason at all)? If you can show me a town game or two where you did a similar thing, push someone early for something I might find wholly NAI, it might help me see this as a playstyle issue rather than an alignment indicative one.

I also noticed Loki said you opened differently here than in past games, and I think one of Loki's strengths is accurately feeling out different meta vibes between games, so you could use this as a means of addressing that point against you as well. I felt your 402 was kinda snarky and dismissive - you didn't even ask what games he looked at

[GuiltyLion]

VOTE: Greeting

GL why are you town reading Roden?

they're not the greatest of reasons but two things:

1. I think the way he's fighting with Loki while kinda both scumreading/not scumreading her feels organic rather than fabricated
2. the furtive vote/push doesn't strike me as survivalist or agenda-motivated because furtive seems fairly townread and not likely to be limmed today

I could def still see it as scum attempting to just blanket discredit all the suspicion on them and throwing fake rage around (especially after Ari pointed out the rage/edge is a staple of his towngame), but yeah mainly it doesn't strike me as very calculated

[fireisredsir]

You're calling GL 'reasonable'.......you're sure he's town then?

im ok with treating him as town for now, but no, im not sure

but my read isn't relevant here, from greeting's stated perspective, he thinks GL is town, so i don't think there's any reason for him to not want to work together. my point in calling GL reasonable is that there are some people where i think it would be understandable to not want to try to work with them in that situation. GL is not one of those people

[furtiveglance]

You're calling GL 'reasonable'.......you're sure he's town then?

im ok with treating him as town for now, but no, im not sure

but my read isn't relevant here, from greeting's stated perspective, he thinks GL is town, so i don't think there's any reason for him to not want to work together. my point in calling GL reasonable is that there are some people where i think it would be understandable to not want to try to work with them in that situation. GL is not one of those people

Ok that makes sense. Remind me why you're on Kitty? I haven't really seen anything to read into from them.

[GuiltyLion]

Here, I can reach out. One of my biggest issues is that I really don't vibe with your reasoning on Rat at all - I think regardless of Rat's alignment, they as a person thought it would be fun to act as a computer for the beginning of the game. I've played with them a few times before, and I also still weirdly have a memory of reading this particular post in a very old game of theirs and finding it really funny. They have a sense of humor.

What I don't understand is why you seem particularly hung up on this idea that it can only be a front to mask awkwardness at the start of the game. Rat is an experienced player, I'm sure they have scumgames in the past where they didn't need to use such a front. It's just really easy for me to imagine a world where town!Rat opens the way they opened this game, it doesn't strike me as alignment indicative at all. but it feels like you're locked in on this reason you have and I don't feel you considering the alternative town!Rat world, which makes me think it's driven by agenda.

edited to use the correct pronouns. I apologize for my mistake RR, will be sure to get it right going forward

[Vivax]

VOTE: Greeting

Didn't check if it's hammer

[GuiltyLion]

UNVOTE:

I wanna give Greeting at least a chance to respond and I also don't feel like I've seen enough from every slot to make good decisions when the second phase starts

[furtiveglance]

VOTE: Greeting

Didn't check if it's hammer

It was E-1.

[furtiveglance]

I don't want today to end so early. I want to spend more time sorting Kitty, Kuti plz, RR, and Bell.

UNVOTE: Greeting