Open 861: The Turing Test [game over]

[Loki Dokie]

this setup is not a normal game tho and scum are very aware about how people will be heavily analyzing the d1 vcs for associations and wagonomics considering multiple scum have to flip guaranteed

If scum get the first elim right and ML someone, they can get a whole bunch of townies (but at least 2) that are potential victims later on for being on the wrong wagon. Plus the points system disincentivizes bussing.

There‘s also the tendency to assume that 4 scummers don‘t vote together which is somewhat of a gamblers fallacy.

The only question is if you expect them to be more vs less organized but in the average game it‘s mostly everyone for himself. If they were organized they could have hammered me when I was at L-2 and L-1.

So we‘re not dealing with a highly coordinated team fmpov

If scum was smart, they would have just tried to ram through Bell but probably didn’t have a choice. That or keep him out of the test, because probably everyone else on that team would have had a better chance.

[fireisredsir]

ig it's fair that if RR is scum then scumteam didn't really have much more they could do about kitty going down

[Aristeia]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

I think specifically because of the mech, it’s extremely unlikely that 4/5 scum were on Vivax and only one bussed.

agree with this

I don't think it makes sense for the scum team to bus KT and have a massive bloc of votes on vivax because bus credit for bell is somewhat useless.[sorry bell]

[Vivax]

vote count 1.final

with 13 votes in play, it took 7 to make a decision. day 1 ended.

yeet

KittyTacky [7]:

Bell

, Aristeia, GuiltyLion,

Dannflor

, Vulture, Vivax, fireisredsir

[HAMMER]

Vivax [5]:

Radical Rat,

furtiveglance

,

kutiplz, KittyTacky

, Roden

not voting [1]:

Loki Dokie

mod notes

~ i was literally about to sleep, why do you do this to me

I think specifically because of the mech, it’s extremely unlikely that 4/5 scum were on Vivax and only one bussed.

agree with this

I don't think it makes sense for the scum team to bus KT and have a massive bloc of votes on vivax because bus credit for bell is somewhat useless.[sorry bell]

Pardon, you are contradicting yourself clamorously

[Aristeia]

ok let's say Roden is scum

what is the point of him voting for you?

as in

who is going to hammer you?

[Vivax]

vote count 1.10

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Vivax [5]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Bell [2]:

Dannflor, fireisredsir

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Wrong VC to ask about, this is the more relevant one
Then Roden put me at L-1
1-2 scum didn't hammer me

[Aristeia]

so who is roden counting on to hammer you?

B-A-G are on Kitty and pushing there.

Greeting can't be scum with Roden.

Dann's flipped town, you won't hammer yourself.

Fire? I have trouble seeing a world where fire is scum because I don't think he pushes that hard for Kuti as scum.

[Vivax]

so who is roden counting on to hammer you?

B-A-G are on Kitty and pushing there.

Greeting can't be scum with Roden.

Dann's flipped town, you won't hammer yourself.

Fire? I have trouble seeing a world where fire is scum because I don't think he pushes that hard for Kuti as scum.

yo-ho-ho

[Aristeia]

fire's consistently advocated for limming scum on every day [KT, Kuti, Bell]

up to now he's gotten little to nothing to show for it in return.

even today when it's like do-or-die he has exerted relatively little influence over the direction of the thread or who to kill.

I think it is extremely unlikely he is mafia and I would be incredibly impressed if he is.

[GuiltyLion]

I think I've been convinced to vote Vulture based on my points about Greeting + the gamestate arguments Ari is making

I'll do a reread of Roden ISO soon before voting but yeah I think that VC we've been riffing on is actually quite town-indicative for Roden

[Vivax]

I think I've been convinced to vote Vulture based on my points about Greeting + the gamestate arguments Ari is making

I'll do a reread of Roden ISO soon before voting but yeah I think that VC we've been riffing on is actually quite town-indicative for Roden

I don't see it.
Greeting's got the whole bad looking optic around when I voted for them for the self-bus mentioning post which was almost a copy of what RR did earlier, but if I go purely vote based with the least tinfoil possible, I still arrive at Roden.

[fireisredsir]

not to be too self-centered but i kinda feel like i was expected to push for a roden vote here, since in thread so far i had been implying a roden scumread and a vulture townread (which was mostly true, but i wasn't very confident on either)

and i probably have the most ability rn to push for the vote that i want due to vote record so far

which on the surface makes me want to vote vulture. but i do want to look at things a bit deeper to see how confident i feel in that

it seems like most people are leaning vulture but like... 5 of us are town anyway so i don't think thats really a bad sign? and i don't think thats something that scum would have been able to predict going in to this test

[GuiltyLion]

vote count 1.10

with 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to make a decision. day 1 ends in (expired on 2022-08-11 09:45:00).

yeet

Vivax [5]:

Loki Dokie, Radical Rat, furtiveglance, kutiplz, KittyTacky

KittyTacky [3]:

Bell, Aristeia, GuiltyLion

furtiveglance [2]:

Roden, Greeting

Bell [2]:

Dannflor, fireisredsir

Radical Rat [1]:

Vivax

not voting [0]:

mod notes

~ this is a mod note.

Wrong VC to ask about, this is the more relevant one
Then Roden put me at L-1
1-2 scum didn't hammer me

Ari already made this point, but let's say Roden is scum putting you on L-1 with kuti, KT also voting you. If Bell is scum, the hammer is available. Why wouldn't Bell hammer if the Scum Master Plan is to lim you over KT?

Ari (712), myself (768, 773, 778), and Dann (201, 566) had already expressed that we thought you were either townie or at least not as scummy as KT

fire also said he was townreading you (763)

so that's at least 3, if not 4, townies openly pushing back against your wagon and voting elsewhere at the time Roden put you at L-1. Who does he think is going to hammer, and if he's scum and scum want to eliminate you, why didn't Bell hammer?

[GuiltyLion]

also considering Roden was a fairly scumread non-presence who had to be aware (if he is scum) that his E-1 vote would be looked at with suspicion and possibly make your wagon look even less appealing to the townies off of it. We see this play out almost immediately when Dann votes KT (833) shortly after. And at that point it's obvious you are going to vote your counterwagon instead of yourself. If I'm scum!Bell, after Roden's vote I'm trying to either set myself up to maybe hammer, or push back against Roden for more Distancing^TM to look good on future days, but instead he just empty posts (823, 824) and disappears for the rest of the day. Doesn't seem like there's any team coordination happening there.

so yeah, I don't think that E-1 makes a lot of sense from a scum!Roden world

[Vivax]

They have four posts. My only thought is “does Roden actually exist? Does anyone?”
The only people worth looking at for AI stuff are the active ones but the only actives one are the ones I don’t want to lim. So it’s a conundrum.

If the scenario is that Bell is salty at Roden not doing enough in game, corroborated by Roden's later emotional posts where he complained that no matter what he does he's seen as low level scum, then you can expect a team in disarray cooperating poorly with Bell just doing his own thing instead of hammering me.
In other words, you might be looking for efficiency where it's more opportune to look for emotionality to read the events.

[GuiltyLion]

I got my timing slightly off, Roden actually votes you juuust after those Bell nothiinigposts, but that doesn't really change my main point I think, which is that Bell/Roden do not look at all like they're playing to accomplish an objective together during that period of time (objective being either lim Vivax over Kitty, or effectively distance to give one of the slots towncred)

[GuiltyLion]

I actually changed my mind and decided that I don't feel like voting

Vivax

today. I feel like he would have a lot more to gain keeping his vote on me and bussing me, rather than hesitating. Still, if he's town, I am worried about a scenario in which he is pitted against a deepwolf and loses. And, to be fair, his interaction with me feels genuine.

meanwhile, let's look at this post under a hypothetical scum!Greeting lens. Feels pretty plausibly scummy to me - there's the obvious potential straight up slip by saying you should have "bussed" them, and then there's the white knightiness of it, I can easily imagine this as a post designed to try to give Greeting some town credit if your wagon goes through, and to fake being concerned about future tests. There may be a dimension of self-consciousness involved in Greeting is not sure exactly how townie you would appear to an uninformed perspective when several scum (KT, kuti, Rat?) are already voting you and several townies defending you

[fireisredsir]

ok i read roden's iso and its actually p towny imo idr why i scumread there originally

[Vivax]

Mood

[Vivax]

Meow me a river.

Also, that is the cutest avatar. I cannot tel if that is an actual cat or a doll.

Thank you, it's a cute cat.

What is your experience with the players in this player list

I've played with Fire, Dann, Furtive, Roden, Guilty, Radicalrat

(but it always feels like I'm playing adjacent to them)

.
And I completely forgot if I played with Aris before or if I just chatted with them in a dead thread once.

I think getting a lay of the land is kind of both.

@Fire, same. Mostly I play this game to understand people. Speaking of which.
Are you scum?

I feel that. There are just some players that I never really interact with even across multiple games.

It's this for me. It's just fluff, designed to pocket Bell.

Spoiler:

Yeah I'd definitely like Roden to say more before I considered voting there.

Dann’s argument would suggest that Roden’s scumgame isn’t good. His vote on me is bad but as scum, he’d probably realize that.

In the game I played with scum!him I was getting heavily wagoned and Roden hard wk’d me. This just seems to be really sloppy if Roden’s scum here.

Roden was so good in that game that last town miselimmed me at elo and Roden won, so why would his scumgame suddenly turn to shit? Idk what to think rn.

I read that game and I think it was mostly the PR claim rather than anything else.

...I literally hard bussed my buddy to "save" Nancy. Before that, the elim was between two townies.

In any case, I'm inclined to stick to my current reads. Nancy shouldn't be today's elim over James.

Is that .gif an explainable reaction for someone who never mentioned Bell up to that point?
Or did townRoden have a godread on Bell and just chose to not accuse them? Then casually made fun of FG for suggesting he was pocketing a mafia?

[fireisredsir]

no it was suspicion on FG bc roden thought it was a made up read bc it didn't really look like a pocket

don't think it was really abt bell at all

[Vivax]

no it was suspicion on FG bc roden thought it was a made up read bc it didn't really look like a pocket

don't think it was really abt bell at all

Well I hope Vulture flips town at this point, cause I seem to be the only one who wants to lim Roden
If not, I can stomach having a wrong vote at EoD in a game where I sweat more than usual

GL fellas, fellettes and ferrets

[Radical Rat]

I'm actually leaning towards Roden myself. In spite of their horrendous push on me, Greeting actually looks pretty Town in retrospect. I just have a hard time reading their posts and seeing them as being informed here. Vulture looks significantly worse, but it could be a personality thing.

And then there's the D1 VCs. Vivax has already talked about this, but I do think it's highly unlikely there were more scum bussing than not bussing, given the nature of the setup. And since I know I'm Town, and Loki's obvtown, the only way that works out is if Roden is scum.

I haven't finished reading ISOs yet, so this decision is not final and I am not voting yet, but yeah that's where I'm at right now.

[GuiltyLion]

I just have a hard time reading their posts and seeing them as being informed here.

Which particular posts strike you as uninformed

[Vivax]

Wow. I just came back. The current push on me is so utterly horrible that I'm not sure if I even want to address it. I play like a robot, scumread someone for tone from a scumread page and try to read the thread carefully to err my mistakes?

I bet my ass there is scum on it. There's five of them after all.

I guess I understand them though. Eliminating a mafia today would mean that town only needs two points to win, and that puts them in a horrible position. So they'd rather put their necks out for LHF like me, because then they'll just manipulate the pairings with low posters.

Not going to waste my time arguing with this shit push, let's get to work.

This reads so genuine tho :/