Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Bell]

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

Sounds like a true statement with anxiety behind it.
Yet somehow, I can’t tell if they’re town or not from it. Since it’s kind of true regardless of their alignment and the fear is so lloud that it sort of has to be intentionally signaled.

[SCRRRDBEAR]

Way more people suspect KT than Norwee and I mean, just look at his posts.
Guy plays like newbtown.

Hmm, can you expand on this a little?

Specifically, I got the impression that Kitty was highly self-aware, which isn't a common newbtown trait. He's played enough to know what his town meta looks like and at points I felt he was frustrated that his imitation of said town meta wasn't leaving the impression he hoped it would.

The quality and reasoning for his reads is newbtown

THIS IS JUST MAKING ME WANT TO VOTE KITTY BECAUSE THAT REALLY ISN'T HOW THEY USUALLY SOUND IMO

[SCRRRDBEAR]

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

Sounds like a true statement with anxiety behind it.
Yet somehow, I can’t tell if they’re town or not from it. Since it’s kind of true regardless of their alignment and the fear is so lloud that it sort of has to be intentionally signaled.

ARE YOU REFERRING TO MISTYX OR MYSELF?

[fireisredsir]

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

YES THAT MAKES MORE SENSE, I AM PARANOID TOO. I AGREE THERE IS LIKELY TO BE AN ACTIVE/TOWNREAD SCUM PLAYER. MY BEST GUESS FOR THIS PLAYER IS DATISI. WHAT I SAID IS A CALL OUT NOT A GASLIGHT, BECAUSE YOU ATTRIBUTED A CONVERSATION TO ME WHICH WAS SOMEONE ELSE (FIREISRED/CATBOI) WHICH SEEMS MORE LIKELY TO HAPPEN WHEN SLEEP DEPRIVED.

i think she was talking about your 2190 which i didnt respond to bc i had already kinda talked about it and didn't feel like expanding

[Bell]

I think the fundamental game state problem is that it keeps circling back to the easiest eliminations.

Which is normal. Path of least resistance, river flows from higher elevation to lower elevation etc etc.

@Bear. Talking about misty.

[SCRRRDBEAR]

i think she was talking about your 2190 which i didnt respond to bc i had already kinda talked about it and didn't feel like expanding

OH.

[SCRRRDBEAR]

@Bear. Talking about misty.

1311 AND LEADING UP TO IT IS ALMOST A CARBON COPY OF AN INTERACTION I'VE HAD WITH SCUM BEFORE AND I CAN ARGUE THAT 2417 IS AN ATTEMPT TO SHOP FOR MY ELIMINATION. UNTIL SHE POSTED 2422 I WAS QUITE SKEPTICAL OF HER MOTIVATIONS. I THINK 2422 IS VERY LIKELY TO COME FROM TOWN, ESPECIALLY FOLLOWING 2421. I BELIEVE THE IMPULSIVITY ASSOCIATED WITH ANXIETY REQUIRES A WIDER SCUM RANGE THAN MISTYX IS LIKELY TO HAVE, EVEN IF THEY HAVE AN ABOVE AVERAGE SCUM GAME. I ALSO BELIEVE MISTYX IS UNLIKELY TO ACCUSE ME OF GASLIGHTING THEM IF THEY'RE SCUM. ON A LOW LEVEL I CAN IDENTIFY A CLUSTER OF REASONS TO DISTRUST THEM, BUT ON A HIGH LEVEL I THINK THEY ARE JUST TELLING THE TRUTH.

THERE ARE SOME OTHER REASONS AS WELL THAT I'M MORE INCLINED TO TRUST MISTYX RIGHT NOW, FOR EXAMPLE, I WAS JUST THINKING MAYBE 40 MINUTES AGO THAT I SHOULD FIND SOME ACTIVE PLAYER TO PRESSURE WHO MIGHT BE MISTAKENLY TOWNREAD, SO THAT MOTIVATION COMING FROM MISTYX DOES MAKE SENSE TO ME.

[SCRRRDBEAR]

I think the fundamental game state problem is that it keeps circling back to the easiest eliminations.

Which is normal. Path of least resistance, river flows from higher elevation to lower elevation etc etc.

DO YOU AGREE WITH MISTYX IN THAT THIS IS NECESSARILY A PROBLEM? I WOULD CONSIDER IT A PROBLEM ONLY IF BOTH T3 AND KITTYTACKY ARE TOWN.

[SCRRRDBEAR]

I really don’t care about the meta of some troll if that’s how u sort them good for u.

Other people can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think that engaging with the slot to me is a waste of posts. I mean I think the guy posts like an open wolf npc but I mean maybe more people need more time to reach that conclusion? I’m just saying why I’m not engaging with it, and you shouldn’t either it’s not worth ur posts.

i don't think they're actually a troll,

they just often get eliminated.

and there's a difference between saying that you're not going to engage with the posts anymore and encouraging other people not to. that's the part i don't really get. i get it in situations where the person is like spamming or just being a nuisance or whatever, but i don't really feel like that applies here?

idk maybe im just sensitive to the sentiment he gave of getting discouraged by feeling like people are ignoring him when he tries to get more engaged, so then seeing you basically telling everyone to ignore him is like... feels like targeted towards shutting down any chance of him showing himself as town if he is

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

I DON'T RECALL EVER SEEING KT GET MISLIMMED AS TOWN OR EVEN GET PRESSURED ALL THAT MUCH BEYOND NORMAL D1 PUSHES.

Explain this vote? I thought her posting was good overall

i didn't like the way she moved onto kitty, it felt like she was searching for reasons to justify it rather than naturally evaluating the situation

and there's been a couple times where its felt like she's inconsistently applied standards when looking at different slots

and that kinda reminded me that FA explained in hood (which misty is in) that her main method of scumhunting is looking for places where people aren't consistent with how they analyze things/how they behave

and i questioned misty on it yesterday and she ignored me and i don't think FA had fully caught up to that point and now she's dead

thats not like a super significant part of the read but it was in my mind at least

i also read a scumgame of hers and it made me realize that my previous standards for her scumplay (based on ktane) were way too low of a bar

mostly just wasn't really feeling the townvibes anymore when i re-checked the iso

ARE THEY FAKING IMPULSIVITY/ANXIETY/PARANOIA VERY EFFECTIVELY IN THEIR SCUM GAME?

[catboi]

Hey val, do you mind explaining for me why you voted mastina on Day 1?

I got the distinct impression she was ignoring what I was saying about Alisae and Norwee being unpartnered, despite trying to engage her on the issue several times, and I was being told that was meta for scum!Mastina; and matched what I remember about the only experience I have with scum!mastina in Control.

Perhaps I fucked up by not checking that out in more detail, but I wanted an answer as to why she was disregarding evidence that didn't fit her mental model, and the most likely answer I could see was that she was scum and had a specific agenda to push, and I was small-fry enough she could just disregard and think I would not be threat.

I know "I thought she was flipping scum" is a bit of an unsatisfying answer, but that's basically what it boils down to.

o...kay. I still feel like that's a really puzzling shift given your suspicion of Alisae unless you thought they were lolbussing each other (which admittedly is not an impossible thought). I was mainly struck by your progression when I was going back to look at mastina voters and found it hard to make sense of.

[SCRRRDBEAR]

VOTE: KITTY TACKY

SEEMS RIGHT. WILL RE-EVAL IN MORNING.

[Mistyx]

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

Sounds like a true statement with anxiety behind it.
Yet somehow, I can’t tell if they’re town or not from it. Since it’s kind of true regardless of their alignment and the fear is so lloud that it sort of has to be intentionally signaled.

why is your response to this post analyzing my alignment and not bear's?

this sounds like a leading question but idk how to phrase it so that it isn't

[Mistyx]

(also short note - i prefer people not use they/them for me, i have my pronouns listed right under my avatar, thanks)

[catboi]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

who specifically would you say has overblown confidence

I went back to actually look at the votes on T3 in detail and it was funny to me because most of them aren't actually expressing a strong level of confidence, just that he's potentially scum. I was mainly thinking of misty going "this can die" and scrdbear going after t3. you also seem decently confident from what I'm seeing.

Actually the people who are the most confident on T3 being scum probably have the least amount of experience with him so that tracks.

It still feels kind of weird that his wagon is that big this early in the day? Especially when the reasoning doesn't strike me as especially strong. But it might just be a repeat of Ircher.

[catboi]

this sounds... weird? why are they fosing him for that?

I have no idea, and I've not been able to get a decent answer.

It started because Alisae said they suspected Dann and Catboi were partnered, and they fos catboi. I asked why they fos'd catboi independently and was told it was because they feel like catboi is scum for pushing kitty if kitty turns out to be town. I've not really been able to get to the bottom of where that feeling comes from - I've tried a few times but got various answers (lightly paraphrasing: makes sense for catboi to push KT if catboi is scum, I think catboi has a scum agenda in pushing KT) that seem to me to be variations on 'gut', which doesn't make sense to me from someone who is apparently also scumreading KT.

To be fair, Alisae also pointed out that catboi hasn't really pushed or interacted with any of Cephrir or PP who were listed as bottom scum reads in 1454, which I haven't checked yet to see if that is true, but if it is could well be a valid reason for scumreading catboi - I just don't know why "they are pushing KT" was the first answer I got to the question of why Catboi?

which doesn't make sense to me from someone who is apparently also scumreading KT.

???????????????????????

Alisae is there a reason you're saying this shit in the PT and not to my face?? Why does it need to be said in a backchannel rather than actually addressing my arguments where I'm making them? Why would Kitty being town make me scum?

[Alisae]

ya bro u mad

[Mistyx]

oh i was also considering a dann/catboi team but i havent had the investment to dig in and see how much it holds up so i'm kinda just sitting on it

[catboi]

- fwiw, I think his reactions to me trying to cancel him and get people to just not engage with him, honestly, I buy it, I think it's genuine and doesn't come from a wolf.
- I also buy that one post he also made where all of the normal q players have meta on him but no one else here does. That seems more real than him saying he is anxious about going over post cap.

- So what's probably more likely is wolves are jumping to KT like dogs to a bone.
Way more people suspect KT than Norwee and I mean, just look at his posts.
Guy plays like newbtown.
Listening to him explain his reads makes me think he doesn't understand the game at all. This is why I've been saying that his reads are actually just below random. The way he talks about his reads, how he got them, and like, why, is just incredibly weak and makes me think he would actually just be better off RNGing his vote.

None of this is particularly convincing to me, it's just multiple variations on "he seems real" when I've had very specific issues with his posts that I've brought up and you haven't really bothered addressing. I don't buy that the emotionality is something that's unlikely to be faked in this instance.

And how did you go from thinking his posts were basically scum trolling to this? I don't get what flipped you around.

[fireisredsir]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

who specifically would you say has overblown confidence

I went back to actually look at the votes on T3 in detail and it was funny to me because most of them aren't actually expressing a strong level of confidence, just that he's potentially scum. I was mainly thinking of misty going "this can die" and scrdbear going after t3. you also seem decently confident from what I'm seeing.

Actually the people who are the most confident on T3 being scum probably have the least amount of experience with him so that tracks.

It still feels kind of weird that his wagon is that big this early in the day? Especially when the reasoning doesn't strike me as especially strong. But it might just be a repeat of Ircher.

that was closer to my impression (everyone just kinda being like "yea okay we can vote this") which was why i thought that characterization of it was kinda weird. i don't think anyone is really yelling for his head or has a confident case or anything

id say im more confident than "=rand" but not really that confident. it was originally more of a "vote a scumlean to make them do things" vote and then he hasn't really done anything since that feels towny so

its true i haven't played with him before, you think this is typical from him as either alignment?

[Bell]

I think the fundamental game state problem is that it keeps circling back to the easiest eliminations.

Which is normal. Path of least resistance, river flows from higher elevation to lower elevation etc etc.

DO YOU AGREE WITH MISTYX IN THAT THIS IS NECESSARILY A PROBLEM? I WOULD CONSIDER IT A PROBLEM ONLY IF BOTH T3 AND KITTYTACKY ARE TOWN.

No, that's a silly question.

i will freely admit i'm being paranoid but the "you're either scum or paranoid from sleep deprivation" line feels kind of like a gaslight?

and i don't mean this pejoratively or as a personal attack or anything like that that's just genuinely how it reads to me

i'm becoming paranoid because there's supposedly 5 scum in the game but the most that consensus can come up with is circling back to just kitty/T3, and we don't really have any sort of towncore leadership that i can tell

it feels like there's fundamental issues in gamestate that aren't being addressed so i threw out something that i thought was plausible to explain them

Sounds like a true statement with anxiety behind it.
Yet somehow, I can’t tell if they’re town or not from it. Since it’s kind of true regardless of their alignment and the fear is so lloud that it sort of has to be intentionally signaled.

why is your response to this post analyzing my alignment and not bear's?

this sounds like a leading question but idk how to phrase it so that it isn't

Because just because you want me to focus on what you're focusing on doesn't mean that I want to focus on it. I'm more interested in your motivations and actions because I suspect you of being scum more than the bear.
I think this is fairly clear, but I could see why you'd have to ask. Even if only to keep up appearances. Wow, sometimes I really do sound arrogant. I'm just in my own head, don't mind me.

[catboi]

ya bro u mad

Dear Ali, you still ain't called or wrote, I hope you have a chance
I ain't mad - I just think it's fucked up you don't answer fans


but on a more serious note if you think my points against kittytacky are bad then actually say so to my face? Because otherwise it looks like you're just letting me go off on kittytacky while shit talking me to your clan

[Bell]

(also short note - i prefer people not use they/them for me, i have my pronouns listed right under my avatar, thanks)

Got it, I tend to default to gender neutral these days to avoid this, but it's a really stupid thing for me to do in retrospect since gender affirming is the name of the game, so avoiding offense isn't really the point nor does it actually prevent offense.

I'm stupid is what I'm saying.

[KittyTacky]

I think I may be underestimating T3. Since I’m basically evaluating him as newbie scum.
Which isn’t really true, given they’ve been playing for years.

T3 has a slightly odd playstyle but stuff like this is scummy regardless of playstyle imo.

[Mistyx]

(also short note - i prefer people not use they/them for me, i have my pronouns listed right under my avatar, thanks)

Got it, I tend to default to gender neutral these days to avoid this, but it's a really stupid thing for me to do in retrospect since gender affirming is the name of the game, so avoiding offense isn't really the point nor does it actually prevent offense.

I'm stupid is what I'm saying.

nah dw - i still vastly prefer they to he but prefer she or xe to either

[KittyTacky]

In all seriousness, I think the confidence with which people are calling T3 scum is overblown, I think he is basically =rand right now. I'd still be fine policy yeeting him out of the game if he's going to literally not play it but I also would be entirely unsurprised if he flipped green. Shrug.

Nah I feel coughing up a weird and mostly unexplained list after catching up for so long is scummy and not =rand.