Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Wraith]

3 corpses is 1 less than 4 corpses. That's a 25% decrease of corpses that cult could use to get dust!

WHAT AN AMAZING OFFER. UNDISPATCH NOW!

Good point. I keep thinking about this in SAII terms.

Undispatch: Fate

[Trilobite]

Except that 25% decrease goes into the next day phase and will present another chance for cult to get corpse dust when we dispatch Fate later anyway.

While the uncertainty of the flip hangs over the town for yet another day.

There's really no reason not to dispatch him now.

In fact, should multiple people die, this argument can be used to keep him from flipping for days. I'm not a fan of that.

[Benmage]

dispatch fate

can I rob grave fate (on phone, looking to contribute tonight when I get home SC2 has been crack + crazy weekend )

[kunkstar7]

Kunkstar defended your scummy little arse claiming that he understood the case in context. However, his defense was not indicative of someone who understood the case in context.

This is an entirely confusing

statement

, and it doesn't sit well with me (

I read

it

in context

and it still didn't look acceptable)

Bold and italics for emphasis. Unless you are saying that that single statement is your entire case on MoI (which you have stated is not true), then you have misrepresented the section as a whole. I specifically stated that I read the

statement

in context and it didn't make sense. I never claimed to understand the case, actually I stated otherwise and asked for clarification on the case:

What exactly constitutes your case on MoI? I found a lot of mention of him being bullying, yet then you diverge and say he is being passive-aggressive as a scumtell.

I am looking for your intention and motives in attacking MoI, along with reasoning. When I read a lot of "VOTE MOI KTHX" style posting it serves no purpose and doesn't express to me why you want MoI lynched. You are not furthering your case. When I went back to read the situation between your two I noted that a lot of your recent posting was as such, and couldn't surmise your case on MoI. I did not understand your attack on MoI (Here your statement that I didn't understand the case applies, with the exception that I never claimed to understand it.).

In Response to Wicked:

1. He has completely flown under the radar.

Chalk it up to playstyle, game speed, whatever, I can't really provide a response to this.

2. He tunneled on Furcolow for a large portion of the game and didn't change his vote until page 51.

I'll say that I wasn't particularly thrilled to go into this game again with Furcolow. I'll admit that I let my emotions rule my judgement towards Furcolow and I felt his mess of a N0 claim was a manifestation of his murderous intent.

3. Prior to switching his vote to ReaperCharlie, kunkstar gave no scumreads apart from Furcolow. The rest of his posting had consisted of town reads and theory posting. He has avoided taking stances.

How have I explicitly avoided taking stances? Or is it merely a lack of mention of stances? Yes, I'll admit that I do have a lot of theory posting, but that's what I enjoy about Stars Aligned.

4. All of his votes have been opportunistic. The vote for Furcolow was when the spotlight was on him. The vote for ReaperCharlie was after 8 players had already voted him. His reason for voting RC was very weak. It looked like he was trying to jump on the bandwagon using his own reasons. Then, there was the vote for El Goosuki today which was the third vote on the bandwagon. Considering the sizes of the other bandwagons, this vote does look opportunistic as well.

My vote on Furcolow goes along with the previous point, not sure how it was opportunistic when Furcolow was playing horribly scummy and Percy's final clarification wasn't given to end the matter. Several players even voted Furcolow after myself, are they not opportunistic as well? Considering the lynch threshold I would argue against the opportunitistic claim of the El Goosuki vote, a third vote hardly constitutes a wagon. In any case El Goosuki has continued to display the issues that made me vote for them in the first place.

5. He doesn't give too many reads, but even some of the ones he has given have been bad:

My D1 scumreads weren't strong, but fairly confident in townreads though. Most of its gut D1 for me. El Goosuki has continued to flounder and doesn't provide any input of their own, point in case - MoI vote.

By the way, back from V/LA.

[SpyreX]

@SpyreX - Agreeing with people is not suspicious. What is suspicious is that you were actively trying to avoid accusations of sheeping by putting that 0% comment which had no bearing on your vote. You were padding out the sheeping because you'd been called out on it. You can continue to misinterpret me if you want.

Ohhhh so you're just making stuff up I get it now.

Has done nothing useful. At all. 0%.

Which isn't enough [to warrant a vote over other nothings] but Seacore was tech enough to do the dance right and call out:

So, saying ElG has been doing nothing BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY IN ADDITION TO DOING NOTHING (which others have done) has managed to ACTIVELY GO BACKWARDS is avoiding the sheep by saying directly that Seacore pointed it out before I could.

Awesome.

----

Except that 25% decrease goes into the next day phase and will present another chance for cult to get corpse dust when we dispatch Fate later anyway.

While the uncertainty of the flip hangs over the town for yet another day.

There's really no reason not to dispatch him now.

In fact, should multiple people die, this argument can be used to keep him from flipping for days. I'm not a fan of that.

See, that's the thing.

I see absolutely no uncertainty in that flip. None, zero, zip.

So I'll be THAT GUY and say why bother with it? Not today, not later, not ever.

Its not worth the book or the robbing dance. Unless someone actually thinks there's a chance for a scum flip there in which case lets talk about how space monkeys that is.

[Trilobite]

Except that 25% decrease goes into the next day phase and will present another chance for cult to get corpse dust when we dispatch Fate later anyway.

While the uncertainty of the flip hangs over the town for yet another day.

There's really no reason not to dispatch him now.

In fact, should multiple people die, this argument can be used to keep him from flipping for days. I'm not a fan of that.

See, that's the thing.

I see absolutely no uncertainty in that flip. None, zero, zip.

So I'll be THAT GUY and say why bother with it? Not today, not later, not ever.

Its not worth the book or the robbing dance. Unless someone actually thinks there's a chance for a scum flip there in which case lets talk about how space monkeys that is.

Reads can be wrong. I'm presuming nothing.

Flip > No flip

By far.

@Kunk

Do you have any thoughts or opinions on Magna?

[Seacore]

I agree with Trilo, I don't want to presume Fate's town, even though I'd be willing to bet money on it.

And if we're going to flip him, we should do it now for three reasons.

1) We have more townies than we'll ever have, so we can spread the insanities around easier than later
2) We'll just keep having more and more bodies to grave rob, so we might as well get it over with. If we dispatch him today we'll have 4 bodies. Tomorrow we'll have at least three plus fate if we wait..
3) Information now is better than information later.

[SpyreX]

2) We'll just keep having more and more bodies to grave rob, so we might as well get it over with. If we dispatch him today we'll have 4 bodies. Tomorrow we'll have at least three plus fate if we wait..

Did I miss something?

[Seacore]

Fate is optional because we havent' dispatched him yet.

So tonight we currently have LB, RC and whoever we're going to lynch.

Tomorrow we'll likely have Benmage's victim, the cult's victim and whoever we're going to lynch.

Therefore waiting to dispatch fate is silly.

[SpyreX]

God in heaven I keep forgetting about the LYNCH body needing summer lovin'.

Someday, someday.

[Seacore]

I figured that was probably the one you forgot about.
I think graverobbing our eventual lynch target is the most important grave to rob.

[El Goosuki]

El G: what is the scummiest thing that MoI has done and why?

Someone said he was scummy and not very active, I forget who, I also recall he was on our dodgy player list yesterday for gut read. Most importantly, he's the only viable alternative to our own lynch. To continue being candid, our play has been so bad, we would probably scream for our own lynch if we didn't know our alignment.

-DGB

[Seacore]

El G: what is the scummiest thing that MoI has done and why?

Someone said he was scummy and not very active, I forget who, I also recall he was on our dodgy player list yesterday for gut read. Most importantly, he's the only viable alternative to our own lynch. To continue being candid, our play has been so bad, we would probably scream for our own lynch if we didn't know our alignment.

-DGB

Are any of you attempting to actually contribute? Because if you aren't actually playing please leave the game.

[El Goosuki]

Elli here.
Need to catch up etc.
About the night action...We had only one post each the whole night that boiled down into me saying let's investigate xvart a little while before deadline and the other two agreeing...
Yeah, and I didn't/haven't read hito's guide thing.

[El Goosuki]

Sea, I don't remember you being the typed to get pissed off by anti-contribution (from Rainbow Unicorn I think?)
Or am I remembering wrong.

[Seacore]

You are remembering wrong.

But it's not just anti-contribution in your case. DGB has admitted that you, as a team, have done nothing and look really scummy based on your actions. Basically agreeing that the case on you is enough to warrant a lynch.
If you are indeed town, just throwing a vote on a rival wagon and doing nothing else strikes me as injuring town. Particularly when, prior to my post asking for a replacement, your slot has made no attempt to get caught up. That's not just contributing less than others, doing nothing but appearing scummy.

[Seacore]

EBWOP: Also, my play in Rainbow Unicorn was terribad, not that I've improved much since then, but I've modded a large theme game and I've seen anti-contribution cripple town. A Clash of Kings, both Richard GHP and CSL.

[Baby Spice]

But he can help the Town because he is the closest thing we have to a confirmed investigator.

Disagree. i believe that honour goes to Wickedest.

[Furpants_Tom]

Hey again, everyone got some catching up to do.

This after the d1 pigeonhole votes until RC and the 180 from "Ben killing is awesome" to "Ben is a plague" is a whoooooonellly of a switch.

I'm not sure I'm seeing the inconsistency here. In D1, I attempted to use my vote to pressure Bowser into answering questions; which didn't work. In D2 I attempted to use my vote to pressure BenMage into answering questions, which didn't work. I'm consistent, I'm just not very successful.

And in D1, there was no chance Ben would kill, because he'd announced his target and someone would block it. So lynching or attempting to lynch Ben was a bad plan. Today, there is a good chance Ben will kill, because we don't know who he's aiming for. And his judgement is pretty awful, so I'm not hopeful it'll be cult.

That said, Plan A was to pile on a lot of pressure early in the day, and get him to spill the target so we could go back to ignoring him. But no-one backed the play, so I guess that's not happening.

Am I the only one who finds Xvart and El Goos targeting each other slightly hinky. Especially with El G choosing to look for something that couldn't be there.

Nope, that's definitely odd. And for xvart, a rather unlucky coincidence, considering his N0 action was to target someone also targeted by Baby Spice.

Xvart's explanation for his Goo action is interesting, but by the end of D1, I'm pretty sure that Furcolow's story was well accepted. Moreover, given that there had already been a mod clarification that pretty much spelt out what would happen in Furcolow's case, I don't know what additional proof you were looking for. So it's difficult to see exactly how your action benefited the town.

Warding people on N0 and N1 is fine; but the unique circumstances of your actions are starting to cause me puzzlement and dismay.

Xvart: Do you think that anyone else was likely to have been targeting El Goosuki last night?

done iso on MoI, but he is town.

why? I want a damn explanation of these town reads on him because I see nothing to indicate that.

his attack of furcolow's confirmness is not something cult will do, and so hard. i think they would have given up that argument long before MoI did. they won't want that much attraction that early on an unlikely mislynch.

WHY do you not think [Benmage]'s cult? What has he done to make you think that?

that would be the greatest gambit if he is really cult and not being caught soon. there are too many risk for a cult to claim stalking someone, without any reason.

Your basic argument is that you don't believe that cultists take risks, right? And so far you've absolved BenMage, MoI, and LostButterfly of cultic tendencies because they've all played too dangerously, correct?

So I'm curious - Manho, where would scum be trying to direct attention today?

Does anyone genuinely believe this kill is more likely to hit scum than town?

me.

Manho, who do you think Benmage is targeting?

why Rez Wicked???

Cuz he's cul.

I think this is a pretty important question, and it could use a real answer. Yes, you claimed first; but if you're cult, you would know that Wickedjstr had been rezzed, and could falsely claim it before the real doctor. It's also a great way of explaining your blood, if you've been taking part in the ritual.

SSBF seemed legit to me; but your answers so far aren't similarly compelling.

Nopoint, why rez Wicked? Why not answer Plum?

Vote: kunkstar7

He is such obvious scum. Just read him in isolation. The points against him:

1. He has completely flown under the radar.
2. He tunneled on Furcolow for a large portion of the game and didn't change his vote until page 51.
3. Prior to switching his vote to ReaperCharlie, kunkstar gave no scumreads apart from Furcolow. The rest of his posting had consisted of town reads and theory posting. He has avoided taking stances.
4. All of his votes have been opportunistic. The vote for Furcolow was when the spotlight was on him. The vote for ReaperCharlie was after 8 players had already voted him. His reason for voting RC was very weak. It looked like he was trying to jump on the bandwagon using his own reasons. Then, there was the vote for El Goosuki today which was the third vote on the bandwagon. Considering the sizes of the other bandwagons, this vote does look opportunistic as well.
5. He doesn't give too many reads, but even some of the ones he has given have been bad:

He's been pretty quiet, true, and he's avoided making too many waves - he's got a real submarine vibe to him. I agree that he was looking at Furcolow for way longer than necessary. I think xvart is guilty of that, too. I don't have a problem with theory-heavy players, nor cautious players, for that matter; so that part doesn't worry me; except that players who are cautious and theory-heavy usually try and bracket their weak gut-reads with some kind of fact-based security blanket, which he doesn't. Overall, yes, kunkstar7 is someone I think is potential cult.

4) Again today I see almost no direction from Magna in his scum hunting. I see a lot of defending himself and being generally kind of pissy about being called out as scum, but I for the life of me cannot tell you who Magna is suspicious of or wants lynched. I still find it weird that he isn't pushing the AV case Spyrex is still on about. I don't see anything that has changed from that really. Magna, do you find AV scummy or not? If no, what changed? If yes, why are you not voting him?

This is probably the reason why I'm swinging towards MoI as scum. In D1, I felt he was a genuinely odious individual to share a forum with; but I could see what he was trying to do - savaging a few people he thought were potentially dodgy, trying to shake them down for info.

Today, not so much. He's just flailing and flinging the occasional OMGUS.

MoI - what do you think of AV today?

Furpants:

Top cult suspects ASAP please.

nopointinactingup - double rez participant
Feysal - double rez participant
kunkstar7 - submariner par excellence
xvart - too many night action coincidences

SpyreX, what do you think of xvart?

Re: Fate - I don't see how flipping today instead of tomorrow helps us. And giving more unverified "townies" a chance to sneak corpse dust is a bad idea, unless there's something really good in it for us. Today we have wicked and Furc as effectively confirmed, and one of them needs to launder; so we can afford 3 corpses - RC, LostButterfly and the lynch.

Unvote
Vote: Kunkstar7

[Triglav]

@Triglav - I think I'm the only person in the whole game who still thinks Benmage is cult, so "OMG HE MIGHT GO MURDERER" being bullshit isn't really something to ask me to respond to. If he is an investigator, I don't think he'll get very far as murderer if we can shut him down effectively, and I'd recommend lynching him on D5 if he makes it that far just in case. I've said multiple times why I think he's cult but I must just be crazy since I'm 1/25 that think so.

I follow. Think you're crazy, but follow. There are starving children in Africa who could use your tin foil to save dinner for tomorrow night.

Dispatching is a no-go here. Why kill town? If you disagree with Fate-town, why? Please point out more than "OMG reads can be wrong!" Remember, the kids in Africa.

[nopointinactingup]

2. The two people rezzing me

is

noteworthy. Nopoint being the first person to claim the rez before I even claimed that I had been rezzed means he is probably another confirmed town (he might be a good grave robber too and possibly a better choice than Furcolow. nopoint, what do you think of grave robbing?). Feysal claiming to have rezzed me could be him covering up for his blood if he is a cultist or murderer. There's nothing to confirm that, but I'm keeping an eye on him.

I asked the Mod some questions. His reply looks consistent. I don't think he could have known that if we both rez you from a cult kill, it would be BOTH SUCCESSFUL and we'd both get blood. My only concern is his apathy towards the fact that we both claimed rezzing you.

With only one murderer they have automatically fulfilled a.) and don't have to worry about b.) either, so the only thing they have to do is murder two more times. I think it was stated last SA game that we should focus on cult during the day and murderers at night. Does that strategy apply here too? Thoughts on this?

[/quote]
I think if the murders go way out of hand. We can sacrifice Benmage ( make him take the murderer route ) to stop the murderer from winning.

I don't have a strong enough town read on nopoint right now.

You never do

I think this is a pretty important question, and it could use a real answer. Yes, you claimed first; but if you're cult, you would know that Wickedjstr had been rezzed, and could falsely claim it before the real doctor. It's also a great way of explaining your blood, if you've been taking part in the ritual.

SSBF seemed legit to me; but your answers so far aren't similarly compelling.

But I really did Rez him because he's cul
Not to mention he was being his townish self and that he's obvly the "middle town" that cult would pick.
I could see myself doing such thing if I was cult though ^_^.

Nopoint, why rez Wicked? Why not answer Plum?

What are you trying to elicit from my response? And why not ask Feysal? Is it because ... I'm voting you?

[Furpants_Tom]

Nopoint, why rez Wicked? Why not answer Plum?

What are you trying to elicit from my response? And why not ask Feysal? Is it because ... I'm voting you?

Two people just happening to rez the cult kill is a huge coinkydink. I'm trying to figure out who had a genuinely townie reason to protect him, because I think there's a good chance you're not both telling the truth. And I'm not asking Feysal because... he already answered. For reference:

As it is I find it somewhat suspect that we have two claimed successful Wicked Rezzers. Question being - to both of them -

why Rez Wicked???

I had a res kit and 8 potential targets to use it on. My feelings about them were mostly neutral. hitogoroshi I considered town, despite the Fate fiasco, but he also felt too obvious. I considered xvart, but settled on Wickedestjr, since he'd been catching up and I thought he might be overlooked otherwise. Apparently not.

[nopointinactingup]

Could happen, considering he seem to have the same POE thoughts as me and there was only 8-9 potential people for rezzing.

[Furpants_Tom]

Plenty of things "could" happen. Virtually none of them do. Given that I'm not sold on either you or Feysal, I think it's worth investigating.

[Furpants_Tom]

Sorry; I dropped the question in that last post.

Who were the other "middle townies" that you considered?