Goofbash Invitational (Game Over)

[xRECKONERx]

yeah but you CAN'T ignore context

[Faraday]

isn't that what vca always does? >_>

[Faraday]

oh, dramonic: do you prefer town or scum? I forget

[dramonic]

I prefer third party!
After that I guess I prefer scum than most town PRs, but I prefer stuff like vig to scum.

[Faraday]

okay, thanks.

[xRECKONERx]

isn't that what vca always does? >_>

lolnope

[dramonic]

@dramonic:

1) Why didn't you mention Nikanor while he was being wagoned?

2) Your Fate vote was terrible. Yes, I know this isn't a question. I was going to ask you why you'd voted Fate, but then I noticed that you'd explained it. It was just a bad explanation.

3) Why did you think ABR was town on the day we lynched SensFan?

4) Name three things you'd have done differently this game were you scum. Name three things you'd have done differently this game were you town.

5) Please link to an example of a big case you made on someone when you were town. Please link to an example of a big case you made on someone when you were

scum

.

6) Why are you so confident in your ability to read Faraday and Reckoner? were you willing to trust Faraday/Reckoner's read on me? Also, do you still trust them more than me?

7) Why are you so confident in your ability to read Faraday

8) Lastly, something that's been bugging me:

I posted this defending SensFan:

As someone who shares a QT with SensFan, I'll speak out against the Sens wagon. Some of his stances have frustrated me, but if he's scum, well fucking done, because he's a phenomenal actor. For example, you know when he did that random 180 on Fate on D1 and called Reck town...only to vote Reck again? I kid you not; at that time, he posted in the QT (I'm paraphrasing), "Oh, by the way, I still trust your scum read on Reck, but I'm just trying to get people to think the masons are no longer united to test for reactions." And I checked the time stamps; accounting for daylights savings time, this came BEFORE he called Fate scum. Their whole argument was scripted.Is that a silly gambit that only muddied things up and drew suspicion on himself? Well, yeah. (Sorry, Sens.) But would scum do that in a million years? I've seen scum retroactively claim something scummy they did was a gambit to test for reactions. But this way, Sens only drew negative attention to himself, without reaping the town credit. There was no scum agenda for the move.

You then posted a big case on him. Significant part:

Comes ISO 25 where Sens actually flips around and decides Fate might actually be scum! Can't blame him, Fate's stance on Reck was/is BS. Still, sayign Fate changes his mind suddenly and then Sens changing his mind suddenly is lulzy

ISO 26 is the cult recruit regretting against his leader. He's been kissing Fate's butt all game, but Fate's been apparently talking out of his ass all game. Talk about being a close listener. What Sens seems to be saying here is that Fate makes no sense as town from his perspective but he sheeped him anyway. That's pretty cool and pro-town... right?

Some antagonizing later...

Sens jumps onto Reck in ISO 29, after... wait, I thought you said 4 ISOs ago that Reck was town? Could it be... YOU CHANGED YOUR READ? But that's what scum does, by your word...

ISO 30 is Sens advising Berry not to follow Fate... (ISO 46 is Sens sinking himself)... and then he goes back to sheeping Fate, who he's been spending a while calling scum.

ISO 56 makes no sense at all. He's sheeping Fate but saying he'll vote him if the wagon picks up... what??

Basically, you make a case on Sens for having contradicted himself on Fate...which I'd already explained was confirmed in the QT to be a deliberate.

When Sens pointed out that I'd explained that you, you brushed it off with "stop hiding behind Mina."

Admittedly, Sens' response was pretty unclear, so I'd thought maybe you'd missed my post explaining that Sens was literally posting, "Guys, look, I'm going to pretend to suspect Fate to keep him alive" in the QT while he was backtracking on him.

But then I asked you if you'd seen my post on SensFan, and you responded with this:

Hey, dramonic. I'm just curious about something.

Did you ever read this post of mine?

yes. What about it?

So apparently, you saw my post...but still made a disingenuous case on Sens? Care to explain?

1) The wagon wasn't interesting.
2) That's mean ;_;
3) Guts
4) *cricket* I'd probably have been more active as scum. Maybe. That's about it for what I might have done different...
5)

Spoiler: scum case (kinda)

Sooo, you don't like the empking wagon, but you say anyone voting pacman will be met with fustration (and possible a vote), but empking voted pacman. How do you reconcile these two things?

It's a forward-facing thing, if the people on EPM don't remove their votes they'll get flak. I wasn't "there" earlier to establish EPM's status as a VI, but I'm there now and I confirm he's a VI and doesn't have half the smarts to come up with fakeclaiming townie in his first post as scum.

Hardly. I've acted in a way I believe that is probably the most pro-town of anyone in this game. What pages of this thread have you read?

They have cures for that. Mainly cyanide.
I've read about the first 5 and the last 10, more or less. It was a painful and obnoxious experience.

What are you talking about? When did I connect the two? Why are you saying Maxous is scum but not voting him? When did that become the reason for me wanting maxous dead? What analysis has been tampered with? Darox died as a cop (I assume) and he made some pretty pointed statements about two players being town. I have no idea where this is coming from.

First, I'm not saying Maxous is scum, I'm saying that's what you're saying.

This post:

What I was trying to say is

being off of the town wagons

on Lowkey and Dana (like Oman was) does

make me naturally inclined to read them more as scum than town

. (This may be a difference with you.)

I usually find it more suspicious when somebody is on both town wagons, but then off of a scum wagon.

(and I don't really count the reckoner wagon one way or the other)

I misread it at first, but after rereading it it's not just you contradicting yourself about Maxous scummy and Reck being non-countable, it's just you contradicting yourself within a single post. Read the underlined post. The original idea with Maxous is that you seem to hunt by, VCA and indicate within your nonsense of a post that being on both town and off reck is a scummy thing. Which is exactly what Maxous did not do. Yet he's in your suspect list. Logical reasoning would say he should be in your townreads, so when you're done trying to use an argument with gapping holes in it come back.

Also, counting yourself as green in votecount analysis and then giving that to the town saying "oh look, these three are special there must be evil in there!" is pathetic in the way that you are just as likely scum as any other in there (and for that matter are more likely) and yet try to provide evidence that pretend it's not the case. Your evidence is tampered with in that it ignores your own existence and treats you as confirmed town. Considering oneself town is fine, presenting evidence for the town to use that would indicate you are is scummy as fuck.

And yes, Darox called Fonz and Lowell town in all likelihood, what's your point?

I posted a pretty nice one about 3 pages ago, well within the 10 pages you claim to have read.

Is your case 882? It's just the same point 3 times in a row. "Emp says Pacman is either awful town or gambiting scum", "Emp won't explain his vote on pacman" (wait, didn't your point 1 just DISPROVED THAT?), "His reasons for voting Pacman (which I just said in point 2 I didn't know, but I disgress) don't please me so he's scum!"

Good case Ludi.

Vote empking. Or die.

Try me big boy <3

Spoiler: town case, kinda

[redacted], how in hell are you going to claim winger is obvtown. You need to back that statement up right now.

Also, you need to actually say what your case is on me. "oh lord" doesn't cut it. If you're going to shamelessly sheep other player's cases, at least indicate which player you're sheeping. And what exactly do you mean "I'm sad you're still alive."

Also, your list of "obvtown" players is sort of weird; why that order? It's like you wanted three for a crowd and then dumped one more in to blend.

Question 1: Because... He is? His play is very readable, and it reads town. In his cripticness he's freaking transparent.


Question 2: Fitz' case on you is pretty damn correct, and your response is all twist and ad hom.
You've completely failed to respond to multiple accusations laid against with anything other than "well, () means or, duh you suck at grammar". No. (mis)lynch means that you're incapable of taking a stance because you're not willing to wet yourself or take a risk. Clear opinions are protown. Crappy fence-sitting deserves death.

You're bitching at lurkers but tunnel Snake and ignore the others (as seen clearly through ISO 7).

You're selective scumhunting (Like ISO 9: Snake hasn't posted content in weeks but is inactive, Ani has posted content elsewhere but he's less scummy???)

You try to invent crap where it doesn't exist with ridiculous stretches (ISO 10).

Great big response to ISO 11 is
paragraph 1) ad-hom
paragraph 2) ad-hom and fence-sitting
paragraph 3) selective accusation, considering ani is vastly worst but you're willing to switch for no logical protown reason
paragraph 4) ad-hom, again
paragraph 5) Is a point for Snake being busy and Ani being scumlurker, but you're ignoring that of course
paragraph 6) Useless IioA. Thank you, we didn't know that lynching a lurker when there are 2 means there's a lurker tomorrow!
paragraph 7) If you're null on Snake, you should be pushing a wagon on a scumread instead of going "shrug he's doomed regardless, I'll just go with the flow". Know who else goes with the flow?
paragraph 8) Because blackmailing busy people is soooo protown.
paragraph 9) ad-hom and useless crap. We all knew Snake would get replaced out if he wasn't hammered. Stop pretending your blackmail is protown
paragraph 10) "look, I didn't vote him!". Look, you said you wouldn't vote him before 24 hours!
paragraph 11) The point of the "ultimatum" was to easily have somewhere to dump your vote without reasoning on an easy mislynch. Unfortunately for you, he DID replace out.
paragraph 12) And that's a great reason not to keep your vote on him?

Back to the ISO!

You want Haschel's opinion on tclaw, bvoigt and nathanael, three players you've mostly failed to mention all game? OH come on:
You have 1 point about Tclaw, saying you don't like his reaction on P.1 (or 2, whatev)
You have adressed Nat seriously once, to ask his read on Ani, without stating a personal opinion
You have never adressed bvoigt
Why do you not want opinions on player you have reads on? Oh wait, commitment, right.

Iso 16: More ad-hom, more "I didnt vote snake love me!"
paragraph 4 is a damn huge BS block. You say you wouldnt unvote Ani (oh wait what about Snake who you THREATENED?), and say it'll depend on his read of tclaw... Why the FUCK are you trying to use Haschel's reads to justify Ani's actions? Rethorical question, don't answer; it's cause you're scum.

ISO 17 is more crap about the Snake ultimatum being innocent, we wont get into that it's been clarified that's BS.
You blame Winger of being opportunistic. Opportunism is to be "yeah, I agree!" and vote on that. Just saying "vote" is not opportunism because it ATTRACTS ATTENTION (like caps!). Blaming Winger for you being attacked by Triglav and Fitz is pretty hilarious also.
You also change your vote to winger. Where's that updated read on Haschel who hasn't freaking posted since you said you wouldn't unvote him?

ISO 18 adds Nat (me) to the bunch in a beautifully arbitrary fashion, considering you called me town in 16. Also Ani is falling in scumminess, even though you CLEARLY stated that you thought he was scummy.

Wait... I'm town, but I'm scummier than Ani?

ISO 19 is a monument to hypocrisy surrounding my playerslot. Winger has FoSed me then didnt mention me. Sounds like a lingering suspicion. You've asked Haschel about me (without mentionning me before), called me town, then set me as 3rd on your scumlist. You can't be fucking serious!
Add to that the fact you're asking Acro to justify Winger's behaviour. That. Is. Crap

ISO 20 is just ridiculous. You call Winger scummy, then ask him to convince you bvoigt is scummier. Huh... you trust your scumreads-read?
For future reference, if you've seen explanationless votes pass by with little to no reasoning or questionning, you've seen shitplay. kthx.

ISO 21 Yep, four votes on you for a vote you didnt make. A vote you said you'd make, for a goddamn shit reason, while finding other players scummier, without a deadline looming over you. I'll be frank, nobody cares that you made the vote or not. THe point is the intention.

Oh, and if "I'm sad you're still alive" isn't clear enough, it's me saying I don't have a dayvig to kill you with, God knows I wanna.


Question 3: That's a pretty random assumption for you to make. What specifically about my protown reads feels like I dumped one in there in addition to the three others? Could it be... there's no COMMA BEFORE FISH??? Or I missed the memo about 4 townreads being a huge no-no... Order is that in which the name came to mind.

That second one was posted as an alt, hence the redacted at the beginning

6) I think I'm decent at reading Faraday, and I think I'm acceptable at reading Reck. I kinda trust them with their read on you, but I have an issue with their playerslot that remains unresolved so I'm not certain. Also I've pretty clearly certain I've stated I don't view anyone as conftown.
7) see above, but more precisely I nailed him as scum day 1 in Lost Season 4 (Well, never managed to convince anyone, but I KNEW HE WAS SCUM!) and his play here is not the same at all.
8) I skipped that post the first time and when you asked me to go over it again I only looked for a part addressing me.

[Faraday]

tans iso done! abr iso done! blackberry iso done!


imma finish it tomorrow don't feel in the mood for more SERIOUS MAFIA right now

[tanstalas]

Spoiler:

Questions:

@tanstalas:

1) You made an MD thread saying you were much better as scum than town. What makes scum come more naturally to you than town? What do you think your strengths and weaknesses are as scum? As town?

It's easier for me being scum because I have inside information. I KNOW who is scum and who is town. Playing town is harder because I don't know people's alignments. As scum I can see where people are pushing and can nudge mislynches along.

2) Name three things you'd have done differently this game were you scum. Name three things you'd have done differently this game were you town.

If I was scum I probably would have fakeclaimed something by now, depending on the circumstances. I would have been lurky as all hell as well. When I play scum I am usually less active. That's about all I can think of, as for if I was town, I can't answer this because I am town, so I wouldn't have done anything differently.

3) Why did you think Minineko looked more townish than dramonic? I'm not sure where your strong town read on him came from yesterday.

Like I said, he was on all the scum lynches. Unless he busses people like crazy I thought that was very townish compared to Dramonic not being on a correct lynch yet.

4) Why did you go from saying you thought the scum was either me or dramonic at the beginning of D6, to the scum being Irish Carbomb or dramonic in the end? It seems as though it was solely because no one else was willing to follow your suspicions of me.

TBQH, you could be scum, I'm going with my gut on this, you seem to be posting a lot of stuff, and not just fluff, if you were scum I don't know if you would play like that. Also helps that others think you are town as well, and know your meta better than I.

5) In a past game, have you ever viciously bussed a scum partner before for town cred? Have you ever voted for a scumbuddy? Have you ever defended a scum partner?

Yup, I think you kinda do need to bus at least one of your scumbuddies. And as far as the defending of a scumbuddy I am sure I have, I just can't remember any specific examples.

6) Why should we clear you as scum and not IC, who was on the Blackberry and

Nikanor

ABR wagons?

If IC is scum, he would know ABR was scum he would not have known BB was a traitor. So he bussed 1 buddy. I have been on more scum lynches than him. So I guess it comes down to you thinking I bus my partners out of my wazoo or not

7) Be honest. Would you have bet a bottle of alcohol on your alignment were you scum?

I had to check my ISO, I don't even remember saying this.. oh alcohol, the solution to and cause of... bleh...

I don't know, that's the first time I ever said anything like that, and don't even remember saying it. Not to mention it is against site rules

[Mina]

STOP INDIRECTLY REFERRING TO ONGOING GAMES ON RADIOSCUM. *slaps Irish Carbomb*

[xRECKONERx]

WE DIDN'T.

[Mina]

(note to Patrick: they didn't ACTUALLY discuss ongoing games, so don't worry, no modkills are in order.)

That said, Reck's big VCA post was useful, because tans and ABR's lone votes on each other look a lot more like distancing when you see them in context with all the major wagons going on. I'll reread the end of Day Three and beginning of Day Four to see how organically the tans vs. ABR fight originated.

(Actually, something that tipped me to Minineko over tans yesterday was how tans jumped off Nikanor to vote dramonic when there was no momentum going dram's way. Maybe I'm just thinking of MLP Mafia, in which a wagon on my buddy snowballed while I was V/LA--in that case, I stalled unvoting so I wouldn't lose my spot as first on the wagon if he flipped that day. But then again, this was AFTER DGB had unvoted Nikanor. I also saw scum do something similar recently in an off-site game, so maybe I've got the logic backwards.)

Oh, and Reck, I meant a response to how you'd have handled the vengeful claim/unclaim as scum, not to why you claimed as town. But it doesn't really matter, because at this point, you guys are pretty obvtown.

Actual responses to dram's and tanstalas's posts coming later.

[Mina]

EBWOP: just to clarify, all I meant was that the discussion of the pros and cons of VCA was awfully coincidental. I don't think it was out of line at all.

[Faraday]

(Actually, something that tipped me to Minineko over tans yesterday was how tans jumped off Nikanor to vote dramonic when there was no momentum going dram's way. Maybe I'm just thinking of MLP Mafia, in which a wagon on my buddy snowballed while I was V/LA--in that case, I stalled unvoting so I wouldn't lose my spot as first on the wagon if he flipped that day. But then again, this was AFTER DGB had unvoted Nikanor. I also saw scum do something similar recently in an off-site game, so maybe I've got the logic backwards.)

uh...i don't geddit splain

[Faraday]

like i read it but it's just :words:

[xRECKONERx]

VCA post was useful

SUCK IT FARADAY

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, and Reck, I meant a response to how you'd have handled the vengeful claim/unclaim as scum, not to why you claimed as town. But it doesn't really matter, because at this point, you guys are pretty obvtown.

oh yeah I can do this too, lemme finish this radio show

[Faraday]

VCA post was useful

SUCK IT FARADAY

LOOK I'M HETERO, OKAY

[Mina]

Am I that incomprehensible?

Okay. Say you're scum. Your buddy is getting wagoned, and you've decided to hop on.

What's the strategic purpose of then switching your vote to someone else, when you know your buddy will flip scum that day?

Originally, I'd thought tans switching to dramonic (who had no votes on him, although IIRC, someone had attacked him earlier) was a towntell. Thing is, after tans' vote, DGB switched to another wagon, so maybe tans figured the momentum against Nikanor was starting to dissipate and thought it was safe to switch his vote. Also, then I saw HT Reddy/Fell do just that in the Westeros game when his partner Manderly was wagoned--he was early on the wagon, but then started a rival mob on someone else who ended up lynched instead.

Again, I know that in MLP, I was conscious of the fact that I was first on the wagon, so I really didn't want to move my vote from inHim if I could help it. But I could also see tans thinking the coast was clear and trying to subtly dismantle the Nikanor wagon.

[xRECKONERx]

Oh, and Reck, I meant a response to how you'd have handled the vengeful claim/unclaim as scum, not to why you claimed as town. But it doesn't really matter, because at this point, you guys are pretty obvtown.

oh yeah I can do this too, lemme finish this radio show

well uhhhh I think claiming vengeful as scum would be suicide so I can't really give you an honest answer here
ESPECIALLY suicidal with Nik/ABR/suicidalblackberry as scumbuddies

If I were to ever claim vengeful as scum it'd be when I had a strong buddy who could go on to win the game without me so yeah

[Faraday]

>_>

<_<

yes clearly the fault is yours, and not mr jameson! gotcha now. i don't know, i tend to tunnel regardless so don't switch my vote frequently so w/e?

also tbh I thought you KEEPING your vote on inhim in mlp was scummy it looked idk anyway ^_^

[Katsuki]

Gee,

thanks

, Katsuki. <_<

I take it you aren't very attached to your scum read on IC, to the point that I can ignore it and make my own decision, right?

I'm still very attached to it, but we're at a point where I'd rather you screw up than me.

Ok so it's not actually like that and more so that I haven't had much time for mafia the past week or so, and probably not for the forseeable future either.

GOOD LUCK MINA~!

[Katsuki]

And yeah Mina you don't need me to remind you that I've been attached to this read of mine since D1.

JUST MAKING SURE YOU STILL REMEMBER YOUR DEAREST AND BESTEST HYDRA BUDDY

[Faraday]

v/la till tuesday (maybe)

[Patrick]

Votecount

Irish Carbomb (1) -- tanstalas

Not voting: Irish Carbomb, Mina/Katsuki, dramonic
4 alive, 3 to lynch.

Nobody due a prod. The deadline hits on the 3rd of October