Cyclic Experimentation Set x02 - [Game Over]

[projectmatt]

A case on Warrior so far is impossible with his amount of posts, but here's the reason why I initially voted him. (i've had my reasoning's scattered throughout a lot of my posts but they need to connect together.)


Post #35, with a link since Junpei asked for it.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p3541510

This is the first post from Warrior and as I pointed out previously, it appears far too hard to appear pro-town and happy about the way the game is going. I disagree with Magister that it's a legitimate scumtell, it's just the first post that makes all the coming posts worse.

Post #116
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3542315

Aside from a pointless attack there's nothing to worry about here, but...

#123:
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3542426

This is a very clear backpedal and admittance that what he attacked Too for was not scummy at all when if you read the last post you can clearly see that that post is what sparked his vote. This sounds like a bad attempt to cover up something bad he did, ESPECIALLY since we were in a very early stage of the game and half of the playerlist had not contributed at all.

His other two posts are not townie or scummy. He has not contributed anything else so far. That's it. I don't have a gigantic case on him, I have three posts that are mildly scummy and should be pressured with. The rate of the Unforseen wagon building up because he was "playing badly" made me wary that scum were jumping om something easy. That's why I wanted people off of him, I am especially curious to see what Forseen will say now.

[Junpei]

Projectmatt, I'm not lynching him because he's 'playing badly', rather he is playing very scummy. Go read my post on the matter, Fourseen backpedals hard.

[The Eruci]

:: VoteCount 1x7 ::

FourseenCircumstance (9) -

crypto, Junpei, Stringer Bell, Bunnylover, implosion, nopointinactingup, Kdub, wazzatron, EtherealCookie

warriormode (6)

Magister Ludi, springlullaby, Drunken Piper, projectmatt, Workdawg, Toogeloo

Stringer Bell (2) -

RedCoyote, MagnaofIllusion

crypto (2) -

PeregrineV, diddin

Toogeloo (1) -

warriormode

Workdawg (1) -

Sinestro

Junpei (1) -

SlySly

Not Voting (3) -

whispersilk, Furcolow, FourseenCircumstance

With 25 Alive, it takes 13 to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is in (expired on 2011-11-08 23:07:02).

[Magister Ludi]

mfao

oh god the players on this site

meh, I know how easy it easy to vary my posting style in an effort to try to play to town meta, or at the very least, anti-scum meta. Just because you don't like a specific element of your play being examined doesn't mean we should all sweep it under the rug because you say so.

[crypto]

Actually I'm calling you a pretentious Freudian conspiracy-theory obsessor who over-analyzes all the wrong things but okay.

[EtherealCookie]

This post is weird backwards conjecturing, and I don't like it. Stating you think someone is scum, and thus the person the player (or players in this case), are voting are his scum buddies is a weak and flimsy way to vote. Do you actually believe forseen is scum, or just a dumb townie, like you postulate? If he is a dumb townie, I would expect you to be voting for one of the people you actually call scum. Dismissing someone as a 'vi', and an 'expendable lynch' is straight scum mindset, as it often results in easy lynches on town that put town in an inferior position.

A) What Crypto said.
B) It was the link between Diddin and Fourseen that raised my attention.

Wow, I missed some of his post. Etheral followed not one, not two, but three (count them, diddin, stringer, and crypto) onto the forseen wagon while stating they are all scumbuddies bussing forseen. That is simply terrible logic.

I’m inclined to question your ability to read.
A) Diddin is not on the Fourseen wagon. Good job at reading.
B) I did not say Crypto was bussing Fourseen. I said tl;dr; scum bussing. That was Diddin and Crypto. That was also a conspiracy joke. Otherwise it would’ve been a main point instead of a tl;dr in a reading-intense forums game. See. I make jokes. Haha. It’s funny.
C) I didn’t say Stringer was bussing Fourseen. I said “also scumbuddies” after questioning Diddin’s town read from Fourseen.

[FourseenCircumstance]

While I got a sec, Ethereal why did you vote for me immidiately after you stated that I am probably dumb town, shouldn't you be voting for someone you truly find scummy?

[crypto]

I did not say Crypto was bussing Fourseen. I said tl;dr; scum bussing. That was Diddin and Crypto. That was also a conspiracy joke. Otherwise it would’ve been a main point instead of a tl;dr in a reading-intense forums game. See. I make jokes. Haha. It’s funny.

Jokes are risky business on this site.

[EtherealCookie]

While I got a sec, Ethereal why did you vote for me immidiately after you stated that I am probably dumb town, shouldn't you be voting for someone you truly find scummy?

There definitely is a reading problem around here.

B) It was the link between Diddin and Fourseen that raised my attention.

[Sinestro]

My persona:
Open and friendly. Strategy-minded and easy to read.
Loyal to a fault. I love Neighborhoods and Masons dearly. <3

Last game, our general strategy was to pass abilities between people and clear people by having them pass abilities to scum. If two people passed an ability between each other, and one flipped scum, the other was cleared. We had 4 people cleared by the end of the game, and it wasn't hard to finish it off. Obviously, the poison mechanic is intended to make that less efficient.

Ok yeah I reviewed last game though I didn't pay attention to the game. Allow me to get caught up.

KAWAII IS NOT A PERSONALITY TRAIT, COOKIE.

Oh ho crypto. I played with you once in WWA, but you were long dead by the time I got there.

Wouldn't it be useful to just straight up claim all abilities anti-town and transfer it to whoever is decided to be most scummiest, and then lynch/kill them somehow?

I like this idea.
Assuming of course, as Junpei has pointed out, that there ARE anti-town abilities.

crypto is town*

Treestumps are not anti-town, Cookie.

I'm mostly analytical and brief, although I can get longwinded when I'm very sure of something.

Kdub is also a cultist.
Looks good in the color black? (#434343, anyone?)

Yeah Ludi's colorpost is weird.

wazzatron gets scumpoints in my book. While crypto's antics are absurd, I think he's town. Scum wouldn't just run out into the middle of the thread and go QTENQEHATHJQJQAJQ$J SELFVOTE AND WAGONHO. Pushing easy case on silly player is scummy[?]

I agree with lullaby that a secondscumteam is more likely in a sequel setting and revised passing rules but that's not improtant right now.

RVS DOES do something. It helps stimulate conversation, Junpei. Is it always needed? No of course not.

Magna- your plan is good and all though why, in Step 2, do you claim who you passed the power to? Is that just to confirm the town via not being scumbags passing to each other?

Don't lynch SlySly. He just came back.

Also fair warning – Any player that sends a powerful Pro-Town ability (Doc / Investigation / Vig) out of play by ‘forgetting’ to send a cycling choice is to be lynched immediately. I put this out there so no-one can claim “oops, I forgot”.

No problem.

I should also state that I am a bit of a loose canon in games of organization. I like to do my own thing, and find that a little chaos tends to monkey wrench (and make more interesting) the game a bit. The main reason for this is that scum are already informed, so I don't like to aid that in any way. Sometimes it's fruitless, but other times it has worked to my advantage.

This could be a problem.
See, town needs to follow orders.
That's just how this works.
:/

crypto why the Magna vote?

DEFCON 2 Me v. Scum Fate, Fate won that battle.

I remember, and can vouch for the validity of this claim.

Kdub powers don't flip like people do. People just flip town/mafia/SK. Not sure about powers. :/

NO HIPLOP.
1. THAAL
2. BE THE LAST CORPS STANDING
3. YELLOW BITCHES

By the by...

I have a power. One that has been described as "anti-town" by at least one person.

is it a factional nightkill??

HIPLOP U SO FUNNY BRO

But seriously why Toog?

Toog should vote. Just saying.

@Sinestro – Do you plan to sign your posts or just let the clear differentiation between Andy and Hiplop tell the tale?

I'm fine with signing them, though it should be blatantly obvious as to who each of us are.
Magna we ARE voting someone.

Ok I think we're done with stragetizing back to scumhunting.

springlullaby is leaning scum at the moment. Don't like how she pretty much just said what implosion said with reads.

Cookie has a good point on StringerBell. Outing more of Toog's role information is not a good idea even if I think the panda would know to keep his trap shut.

I really like Drunken Piper's Couplet posting. <3

SlySly calling Junpei out for a "slip" is fine and all but not followed up by a vote is scummy.

springlullaby
StringerBell
Junpei
warriormode for the rolefishing
SlySly for the non-Junpei vote after the case

Toog and crypto are town.
as is implosion.

Toog trying to play 'loose cannon' 'dont tell me what to do dammit im Chaotic Good' isn't condusive to FOLLOW THE PLAN mentality, but.

I DO think crypto is taking his wagon too seriously.

The consensus of the posts so far says magna knows what he is doing in this game, so I am going along with it.

Sheep the plan, yes.
Think for yourself.
Scumreads besides the obvtown crypto?

vote fourseencircumstance

Not dealing with this. This ends now.

I'm going to assume he's a VI.
Is he? Do you just have personal history (like diddin?) or what because it isn't shotty so I don't know about him.
Your response just sounds like "LYNCH THE IDIOT" so I wanted some clarification.

I'm thinking give-the-VI-theBotD but if there's significant meta then...

Vote: FourseenCircumstance

Other notorious scumreads are listed above.
Would you rather have a comprehensive list of reads from us?

We're both in the game now and comparing notes and whatnot over in Korugar.

[Kdub]

I'll speed up your wait, Kdub.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=18300

ISO him, I believe he asks to be lynched many times.

Well, that link demonstrates FC's VI behavior, but it doesn't explain the behavior that diddin called scummy when crypto did it.

diddin says crypto is scum for backtracking on warrior wagon after someone calls him on it. FC does the exact same thing against crypto. diddin then says FC is town because he's playing similar to his town meta supposedly. I asked for evidence of FC doing this (not just being a VI in general, which I accept). diddin himself has yet to provide evidence of this past behavior.

[Junpei]

I would like a more detailed explanation on your warrior scumread, because the case against him is terrible, and I want to know if you have anything else to say since you added 'for rolefishing'.

Well that IS the meta diden was probably going to give, given that he was in the game (as a hydra, I don't remember the hydra's name though). But diddin using that game as proof of his towniness is ridiculous. Fourseen knows that him and I and Magna are in the game, and that we'd all be very vocal. As scum I definitely would seem him acting like in that game to sway us.

[crypto]

For the record I never "backtracked" w/r/t my warriormode vote. This isn't a hard concept, fellas.

[crypto]

I missed a sentence in the middle there. The point is that I voted one suspect, then removed my vote to vote another suspect, then returned to the original suspect.

[PeregrineV]

This post is weird backwards conjecturing, and I don't like it. Stating you think someone is scum, and thus the person the player (or players in this case), are voting are his scum buddies is a weak and flimsy way to vote. Do you actually believe forseen is scum, or just a dumb townie, like you postulate? If he is a dumb townie, I would expect you to be voting for one of the people you actually call scum. Dismissing someone as a 'vi', and an 'expendable lynch' is straight scum mindset, as it often results in easy lynches on town that put town in an inferior position.

A) What Crypto said.
B) It was the link between Diddin and Fourseen that raised my attention.

Wow, I missed some of his post. Etheral followed not one, not two, but three (count them, diddin, stringer, and crypto) onto the forseen wagon while stating they are all scumbuddies bussing forseen. That is simply terrible logic.

I’m inclined to question your ability to read.
A) Diddin is not on the Fourseen wagon. Good job at reading.
B) I did not say Crypto was bussing Fourseen. I said tl;dr; scum bussing. That was Diddin and Crypto. That was also a conspiracy joke. Otherwise it would’ve been a main point instead of a tl;dr in a reading-intense forums game. See. I make jokes. Haha. It’s funny.
C) I didn’t say Stringer was bussing Fourseen. I said “also scumbuddies” after questioning Diddin’s town read from Fourseen.

While I got a sec, Ethereal why did you vote for me immidiately after you stated that I am probably dumb town, shouldn't you be voting for someone you truly find scummy?

There definitely is a reading problem around here.

B) It was the link between Diddin and Fourseen that raised my attention.

Part of it may stem from the fact you are quoting people yet excluding the forum's automatic name and post numer quoting function. Therefore, you are responding to someone that we don't know who it is.

[SlySly]

Strategy notes

Last game, our general strategy was to pass abilities between people and clear people by having them pass abilities to scum. If two people passed an ability between each other, and one flipped scum, the other was cleared. We had 4 people cleared by the end of the game, and it wasn't hard to finish it off. Obviously, the poison mechanic is intended to make that less efficient.

MOI, this is the part that bothered me. Since it appears to have worked so well in the first game, I seriously doubt the mod would run a sequel that would be so easily broken by the same methodology.

--------

So,

IF

there are no abilities that can stop the poison, then people who have passed abilities to scum or have had abilities passed to them from scum are "cleared." However, there are a few reasons that they might not be:

1: there might be some kind of ability which can explicitly stop the poison kill. If this is the case, and the ability has no beneficial aspect, then that person should claim either today or tomorrow. We can deal with it by dumping it on someone scummy and nuking them out of orbit. or lynching also works. It's also theoretically possible that the scum have some kind of poison kill though, so yeah.
2: there might be some normal protective ability (like a doctor) that happens to protect against the poison kill.

If anyone has a doctor ability, then they should ask the mod if that ability will protect against the poison kill.

They shouldn't claim, for obvious reasons. They can claim later.
3: the scum have an ability which directly combats the poison, for example, a factional one-shot free pass-between-each-other ability to prevent us from clearing people. I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is in the game after the strategy we wound up using last time, and there's no way to detect it, so people who pass abilities to scum or get them are probably just going to be somewhat townier, as opposed to being clear.

Illustration of why passing plan may not clear people like it did the first game according to implosion:

function wifom(){
if(nopoisonblockingame)
{
if(passedabilitytoscum || receivedabilityfromscum)
{
recipentorpasser = cleared;
}
else(doc)
{
if(canblockpoison)
{
doc = shhhfornow;
}
else
{
doc = askmodifcanblockpoison + shhhfornow;
}
}
else(scumhasposionblock)
{
if(factionaloneshotfreepassbetween)
{
implosion = notsurprisedatpowerinclusion;
power = undetectable;
passersorreceiverstoorfromscum = somewhattownier => !cleared;
}
}
}
else
{
switch PoisonBlockPowerWIFOM :
case scumpower then
if(scumhaspoisonblock)
{
return "so yeah";
break;
}
else
{
return ???
break;
}
case townpower then
if(abilityisworthless)
{
dumponscummy;
recipent = vigorlynch;
return assumevigorlynchsuccessful;
break;
}
else
{
return ???;
break;
}
end
}
else
{
return ???
}
return wifom;
}

Compiler results: fatal error FY2944752: unexpected crap logic wifom overflow; execution terminated.

------------

This isn't a plan, this is a wifom maze with multiple dead ends and disconnected flow leading to town confusion.

------------

Tomorrow after work and WS game 7, I will try to sit down and finish my iso's and review the current wagons to see if I agree with them or think they are being driven by scum. The posting has been way too much to keep up with easily during a very busy product delivery week of work. The weekend should help me get good and caught up.

[crypto]

Part of it may stem from the fact you are quoting people yet excluding the forum's automatic name and post numer quoting function. Therefore, you are responding to someone that we don't know who it is.

EC was quoting himself.

[PeregrineV]

Like ProjectMatt, get town vibes from him

Feel MoI is town, but never played with him as scum- also like Implosion as town

Unvote.

Vote: Stringer Bell

Unvotes Fourseen because it was an RVS vote, but not for another person. Votes later as part of the 6/10 package.

Want to hear more from warriormode.

Not liking workdawg's 216- chock full of badness, probably because I think both "top wagons" are lacking substance.

pedit- lol, that's even funnier.

[wazzatron]

My
wazzatron gets scumpoints in my book. While crypto's antics are absurd, I think he's town. Scum wouldn't just run out into the middle of the thread and go QTENQEHATHJQJQAJQ$J SELFVOTE AND WAGONHO. Pushing easy case on silly player is scummy[?]

... why? this is the whole paragraph and there is nothing that is pointed at me in the rest of the post can you please clarify them scumpoints.

Foreseen I'd like to see you vote who you think is scum

ML i have no idea wtf you are on the reasoning to voting someone is worth more than when or whom

with what your saying the theory is always

Player B votes Player A
Player C votes Player A
Player C is scum regardless on what reasoning he had if Player A flips town

... this isn't how it works the reasoning shows the underlying scum.

Scum can vote town but know they are town and can make slight slips which show who is scum and who isn't, it isn't about the order of voting or anything like that.

This said i'd like to see what Foreseen says and until then i don't want a lynch, but this doesn't mean i'm gonna unvote.

[Magister Ludi]

Actions speak far louder than words. I can't believe i'm even having this discussion. I couldn't decipher what else you said.

Do you have an opinion on warrior?

This said i'd like to see what Foreseen says and until then i don't want a lynch, but this doesn't mean i'm gonna unvote.

What are you anticipating forseen is going to say that could make you unvote?

[warriormode]

Sorry I've been gone all day.

I know Project matt asked me to analyze the wagon on me. so that will be on my agenda tonight. Anything else?

[warriormode]

Vote count #2
warriormode (3) Magister Ludi, wazzatron, crypto

These are the three people that jumped on me after my post.
All because they think I’m faking enthusiastic town
Granted all three gave their separate reasons and were not just like “oh I agree.”
I didnt like their reasons at all obviously cause i mean my vote was RVS.
And I showed a little emotion/fluff off my FIRST post...

Vote count #3
warriormode (6) Magister Ludi, wazzatron, crypto, implosion, springlullaby, Drunken Piper

Three more jumped on me after my vote on Toogeloo.
They didn’t like that I was trying to lynch him for only having the reason being he has anti town power.

To clarify (and I know I didnt say this when I voted him) He was going against the plan (has an anti-town power which is worse), he didn’t make a single read on anyone, and he asked for sympathy when he acts scummy (thats no good.)

Vote count #5
warriormode (6) Magister Ludi, wazzatron, implosion, springlullaby, Drunken Piper, projectmatt

Crypto jumps on the fourseen wagon.
Projectmatt votes me because he didn’t like any of my posts and especially how I tried to “cover up my vote on Toogeloo.” That definitely wasnt my intentions. Stringer just asked me about by vote, and I gave my reasons.
Then asked me a question about what I thought of the plans, I stand by my answer, and I guess he didnt like it. fine whatever.

vote count #6
warriormode (6) Magister Ludi, springlullaby, Drunken Piper, projectmatt, Workdawg, Toogeloo

This is where I have a problem. Definitely one scum here in my wagon.
And Two more people jump off and two others happen with that crappy “oh i agree” reason. Magister and PM have already given fair (but wrong) reasons and have also elaborated further. The other four not so much.

Conclusion: One to 2 scum between Spring, Drunken, Workdawg, and Toogeloo. (possibly wattazon and implosion for jumping on the big wagon)
My money is on Workdawg and Toogeloo. so vote stays for now.

[warriormode]

By the by...

I have a power. One that has been described as "anti-town" by at least one person.

So much for the whole "claim days later thing.", eh?

So, will you be able to use this anti-town power for the good of town, or should you be lynched to make sure the power goes away?

Sorry for multiple, but Toogeloo, you need to answer this too.

[wazzatron]

@warriormode i was never on your wagon (yet) OK just check my posts that was a mod mistake.

@ML i think that warrior hasn't really seemed scummy his "rolefishing" which is in my mind a bit farfetched a word but i think it was in towns interest more than anything else, people have other opinions and that's up to them but i believe that was something done by a townie, i think the announcing of an "anti-town" ability though may have been done by scum and i will keep an eye on him.

you have to realize something i vote for who i find most scummy, at this point it is foreseen he may propose a case to seem less scummy and he might make someone else look more scummy i focus on finding scum

[MagnaofIllusion]

Note that in all the explosion of play that Toogelo has faded into the background. He continues to provide no reads or positive input.

Whispersilk and Furc have yet to post at all.

All three of these players need actual input soon.

--

crypto is angry town. He may be hypocritical about revealing reads and such, but I still think he's town. I stand by my Fourseen vote, I haven't seen anything from him to make him less scummy than he was, nor anything from anyone else that has been scummier than Fourseen.

This is the kind of minimalist posting response I would expect from scum with a little bit of pressure while others are under heavier scrutiny – stick to stated position, add a weak ‘read’. Smacks of trying to stay as low profile as possible.

Stringer is a good Vote!!!

--

The recent votes by EC and Sinstro for Fourseen stink to high heaven and I’m highlighting them here. One of these two is probably scum of some flavor ...

B) It was the link between Diddin and Fourseen that raised my attention.

Oh, so your basis for voting for Fourseen is the diddin link. Even thought diddin actually hasn’t flipped. So despite calling Fourseen VI that could go either way you joined the wagon based on relational information that doesn’t yet exist conclusively re: Alignment.

Why are you not voting diddin (who you clearly think is scum)?

I'm going to assume he's a VI.
Is he? Do you just have personal history (like diddin?) or what because it isn't shotty so I don't know about him.
Your response just sounds like "LYNCH THE IDIOT" so I wanted some clarification.

I'm thinking give-the-VI-theBotD but if there's significant meta then...

Vote: FourseenCircumstance
Other notorious scumreads are listed above.
Would you rather have a comprehensive list of reads from us?

This is bad. Both Junpei and myself have clearly explained that Fourseen is a Shotty style VI. There’s not “significant meta” that says he is scum. Junpei is just basically shouting “LYNCH THE IDIOT”. This vote screams of 'just browsing' and not actually reading the game content.

--

I feel like a huge slacker in here. Most of the players in here have a lot more experience than me and every time I see something suspicious, someone else has already brought it up.

Crypto is working his way back to town IMO. He' active and stirring things up. I'm a big fan of that generally.
MasterLudi is rubbing me the wrong way. Refusing to explain tells is annoying.
Stringer is mildly suspicious... but I'm not sure it's very much.

Scumdar goes Ding!!!!

Cognititve Dissonance? Check – crypto is working back towards Town due to activity but Magister is ‘rubbing the wrong way’ for not giving reads. Crypto is also blatantly not giving reads. Yet crypto isn't also rubbing you the wrong way and is in fact becoming more Town as his 'wagon' disappates.

Fence-sitting on Stringer? Check – until we have a flip not conclusive but worth bringing up.

--

It's the fact that he changed his mind right after someone said it was scummy that he unvoted warriormode that was bad, not changing his mind in general.

Crypto isn’t getting lynched today, despite the fact that he’s dead weight. Stringer has just commited the same move – he unvoted his RVS vote without re-voting, got called out on it, and immediately jumped on the nearest easy place to park a vote – Fourseen.

Vote Stringer with me diddin.

--

Come on MoI, you were in TV Mafia, you saw what Fourseen did, you should be saying this to him as well!

The difference is that I believe Fourseen literally is a Shotty style VI who isn’t capable of better. I have no evidence to supports that Crypto is a VI.

Also he has stated no real reads or given any real comments, he has backpedaled in the above post on the only opinion he had. It's time to get rid of this guy now. He is very scummy already and he is just going to annoy me with his awful posts and people going "VI TOO SCUMMY TO BE SCUM!". If we encourage this type of play by letting him live, then it will spread. He dies now.

Nope. Sorry, no. I’ve already explained why Fourseen’s tactics don’t come from a VI-scum mindset. If you’d like to show where I am wrong in my line of thinking feel free. But unless you can show how his stupid play benefits scum (no-one so far has, just that he’s bad which is beyond dispute) I’m not convinced.

Take for example these two back to back posts –

ENOUGH............

After I am done this Engineering Homework I will post my thoughts....

While I got a sec, Ethereal why did you vote for me immidiately after you stated that I am probably dumb town, shouldn't you be voting for someone you truly find scummy?

So Fourseen is under great pressure. He says he will come back with his thoughts after homework. His next post is THAT? That’s his ‘thoughts’ on the game? That doesn’t read a scum wanting to stave off his lynch. That reads as just a Town VI. If he flips scum then egg on my face. But specifically stating you would be back with your thoughts and immediately failing to produce while near lynch isn't the thing of scum play. Scum who don't actually want to provide comment don't actually promise to and fail. They just lurk.

--

Some people are bordering on ridiculous. There's any number of reasons to withhold reasoning. At the end of the day, who votes for whom and when is much more important than how or why

Nope, not in the least. Without giving reasons the when and how you voted are going to be interpreted in the least beneficial light by other Town. Being a good Town player is about transparency. Your job is to let other Town (if you are Town yourself) know why you suspect someone and making it a reason to join the wagon.

Otherwise your ‘hidden’ read can’t really give you any credit with other players and leaves you open for accusations of Bussing if you are Town.

Now if you are scum … feel free to continue to take this position. You get no credit for good lynches and bad lynches you champion make your likelihood of being lynched increase.

On Magna. Magna voting for stringer while not joining the warrior wagon sounded off a few alarm bells for me as well, though i'm not sure what to make of it. Stringer read townish to me in his first few posts, and a little worse recently, but after evaluation, certainly nothing to put a vote down on. Considering magna is opposed to stringer's voting for fourseen It would have made sense to join the opposing large warrior wagon, or comment about the state of the rest of the forseen wagon. He appears to be trying to kick start a little stringer wagon to both dodge the terribad forseen wagon and avoid talking too much about warrior.

After reading this I smell undermining. I’ll explain to you again why Stringer is scummy.

He unvoted warrior because it was ‘RVS’ without revoting. At the stage this happened we were far enough into the game that he had plenty of places to place a vote. He’s called crypto Town. Why not place a vote and pressure the person on crypto’s wagon who he thinks had the worst reasoning? If he was worried about the speed of the Warrior wagon why not look into the vote on said wagon that in his mind was the weakest?

He then receives comments saying that move is scummy (which were correct). His reaction was to jump at the first easy wagon he could – and low and behold perennial VI Fourseen delivers with classic dumb play.

When called to explain his vote Stringer’s explanation is that “He’s the worst thing around”. That’s basically not an answer – he can’t actually show why he is scummy but just calls him so. And despite the fact that Fourseen's wagon exploded much faster than warrior's he has no concerns about the speed. Cognitive Dissonance right there.

None of this is driven by reads on warrior or Fourseen. I don't currently read either as having scum intent in their posting.

If you are Town you’ve already decided that warrior is scum and everything you see is being colored by that pre-flip. Aka Tunneling. I don’t particulary find your case compelling. I don’t see specific scum intent in his plan review that you can’t also apply to about 75% of the posters in the game. Your wagon reasoning is dependant on unknown alignments. I can also probably find many games where multiple Town wagons appeared Day 1 and your line of thinking (obvious counterwagon) led to mislynches down the line.

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Magna- your plan is good and all though why, in Step 2, do you claim who you passed the power to? Is that just to confirm the town via not being scumbags passing to each other?

It’s to forge links for late game, in the case that a pass results in a death, and to put scum stupid enough to lie about their passing in a 1v1 with Town who can say “No, you didn’t pass that to me”.

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MOI, this is the part that bothered me. Since it appears to have worked so well in the first game, I seriously doubt the mod would run a sequel that would be so easily broken by the same methodology.

Again, this doesn’t matter. The benefits of information to Town a significant enough even with the expected / known Mod adjustments that there is no reason to call it into question just because it worked before. Town gets information they can use to an unknown degree, scum don’t get helped.

Your little Appeal to Fear “Oh my, it may not clear people and result in WIFOM” is noted.

@SlySLy

– I really want to know who you think is scum. I await your post.