Worst Role Mafia - GAME OVER!

[saulres]

I am not a third party.

See this? Again, hung up on denying 3rd-partyhood, when we're calling him scum. He's not worried about appearing scum, he's worried about appearing 3rd party.

It makes no sense.

[Amrun]

It's because he's probably a cult recruiter.

He still COULD be scum, though. He's posting in a scummy manner and that is of the utmost importance, more than any sort of role speculation.

[saulres]

Green Goo: Any player who targets the Green Goo with a night action becomes Green Goo themselves. The first Goo is a survivor (neutral); players infected by the goo may or may not become survivors.

[Amrun]

cult.

recruiter.

[Phillammon]

Okay, checks have come back. Goo-ing does not change alignment, it just turns them into goo too. I was focused on third parties because that is what I'm being accused of for my role. I am not a survivor or a mafioso either. I win so long as there are no more threats to the town and a pro-town survives. I may be scummy, but that is different from being scum.

[Oversoul]

:facedesk:

I am going to respond to this crap over the next hour

[Oversoul]

Just curious, Tierce, do you agree with Haylen's "Current Site Meta" thread?

[BBmolla]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Oversoul

Haddock can die later I guess.

[knox]

@whoever,

to anyone curious to how I hunt scum
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p3961597
I try to find scum and net their buddies all at once via conections. That way if I die in the process of getting the group others can pickup where I left off and get the rest of the group. My scumhunting method works better when a mafioso is dead as the first link in the chain is solid so a better chain can be generated.

I probably should have phrased my earlier comment at saulres

as "is your method better or worse than mine and why". I am always up for improving my posting style if it can be improved. I take his earlier response as "my way not necessarily better but definatly not worse"

[knox]

I'm not thinking recruiting someone new is helpful if you can't guarantee alignment -- just more confusion. Is it required?

No it's not, and I sort of agree

What I thought it was before filled me with glee

However, I must note, it specifically says they become

"Neighbors" with me, so uh, yeah, um...

I probably shouldn't use my role, which is a shame

I wanted to bring some others into this game

[BBmolla]

Having a role that allows players to bring non-players into the game is already bad enough; there's no need to worsen it.

This is a terrible case.

How is it bad? It's good, if they're the same alignment as you. BB doesn't know they are, supposedly, but used it anyway.

I find it highly implausible that I could imbalance the game that much by using 1-shot.

I do find it plausible that my second shot would bring in scum.

Saul I don't know what to tell you, I changed my mind. The "Worst" part is that I'm recruiting someone from outside the game, which is obviously bastard.

Also Tierce as town is a force to be reckoned with.

[knox]

[Oversoul]

Oh would you look at that, BB hopping on to my wagon. If I am lynched don't let these two scumbags live to endgame.

Do explain how I have to think even for a moment that the recruited person is scum, if the recruited person is ME and I know that my alignment is town. really. How on earth do you expect me to make a case for a BBscum possibility that DOES NOT EXIST, because I know my own alignment? You're wanting me to paint myself as hyposcum so I'll justify this ridiculous hypothesis of BBscum? No thank you. I'm town, and BBscum would NOT recruit Tiercetown. The moment I flip scum, feel free to lynch him--but that's not going to happen because I'm town.

I'm sorry I don't have your role PM and don't know for certain what your alignment is. I am sorry that I am not going to trust you on your word simply because you said so.

THAT is why I said think for a moment. You aren't even considering the possibility that town are skeptical of you and BB. WE DON'T HAVE THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE. You are making it very difficult to get this information to discern your alignments with your hardcore defensive position of BBmolla.

BBscum actually has the possibility for two hypotheses.

Hypothesis 1 states that BBscum would recruit a player because said player would become scum. Choosing you makes perfect sense in that situation as I have already stated.

Hypothesis 2 (I think Saul mentioned this) states that BBscum would recruit a player because said player would become town. Choosing you again, makes logical sense although on a much ballsier level because it would mean BBscum would choose the one person who likely would get him killed. Ergo my comment about him playing you.

Also, I have seen scum do these types of ballsy ass moves. Hascow killing his own scumteam with his Day Vig shot. Shadow Dancer giving a very protown looking player a Cop ability from an inventor. I'm not going to ignore the possibility that this is a massive gambit. You shouldn't forget that.

The reason why I asked you about the question regarding Haylen's thread is that you commented on the thread. Although you don't appear to have any comments specifically concerning the topic I am going to assume that you have read it and agree. Haylen said that many people are moving into calling someone scum and then immediately dismissing what they have to say. That is *exactly* what you did when I commented to your quoted marks.

Your hardcore attack on me combined with that little stunt of ignoring my comments are why I think you and BBmolla are some form of twisted Mythological Hydra spawned from the depths of Hades.

I can see you being town but the way you are playing makes me doubt this thought immensely.

Yes, I am quite sure for a "short amount of time" of what BB's alignment is. I defend my townreads when they are being wagoned. You don't have any idea of how much knowledge we've shared, so you're grabbing at straws and, AGAIN, not explaining why certain behavior is or isn't scummy. Why is getting a speedread on the person I was recruited by scummy? It isn't.

Newsflash.

It is.

Your read is premature at best and your "certainty" that BBmolla is town is startling. I know you are a good player, but even seasoned veterans do not come to such conclusions as fast as you did with regards to BB's alignment. Even now it looks like he is watching you fight his battles for him.

You are right. I don't understand how much knowledge you've shared but that doesn't mean I'm completely wrong like you are suggesting. Mastin and I have played in many, many games together. Magister Ludi and I have played in many, many games together. We cannot read each other correctly 100% of the time (as you saw with Pony Mafia). You are telling me with this comment that since you have such a long history you are now an expert on BBmolla? I cannot trust that.

I have PERFECTLY legit reasoning on you. Your whole ISO reeks of scummy behavior. Raising this against you is POINTLESS, because I have no intention of arguing with you, and regardles sof your alignment you are never going to be convinced by a case on you ("oh, I guess you're right, Tierce, I must be scum!"). I'm showing others how scummy your behavior is, and collecting votes on you, because you are acting like Overscum (and scum in general) does and deserve rope for it.

No. You're commenting on it. You ignoring because you think I am scum is worse than anything and ties in with my comment about the Haylen thread.

I will concede points against me that are scummy. I'm not some egotistical person that thinks I am a beacon of towniness. I will give you my logic and reasoning behind comments and let you decide for yourself, but you aren't even giving me the chance to do that. You're simply dismissing me to kill any chance of proving myself to be town.

Noting the Overscum comment.

And you're voting the largest town wagon, who you just fenced on like crazy. Good attempt at self-preservation there, scumbag.

Please explain what largest town wagon means?

Fenced like crazy? I made a single comment and then voted him after you defended him like your life depended on it.

There is no scum motivation to add to the obvtown pile by adding more players to the game, especially when we can talk between us all the time and I can demand a rapidfire answer from him. It becomes hard to fake behaviors and motivations, and to do it deliberately? To bring someone he knows is usually obvtown and can understand where his views come from? That is a town move, one that Oversoul is trying to obscure with scummy WIFOM by saying "what if he's playing you?"

That is exactly the reason why it would be scum motivated.

We've both been burned by passively thinking someone wouldn't do that as scum (Deas in the Kitty Mafia). Why is that so hard to see?

And that isn't WIFOM. I'm bringing all of the possibilities to light.

BB as SCUM would choose the person who can read him best, Tierce, to come into the game BECAUSE

he knows that all of his "neighbors" will be his alignment

.

What

Where did I say this

Ever

Obviously you aren't going to say that, especially if you are scum.

I'm speculating which seems to be why I am getting so much heat.

If I was scum, recruiting Tierce would be dumb as shit. She reads me like a book.

I'd have not recruited as scum for pretty much the reasons Tierce has stated.

This is why I think BB is scum...

BB as SCUM would choose the person who can read him best, Tierce, to come into the game BECAUSE

he knows that all of his "neighbors" will be his alignment

.

What

Where did I say this

Ever

O hai, may I present to you Overscum, who is making cases out of convenient 'if's and WIFOM and completely ignoring Occam's Razor, as well as completely NOT trying to read either of us outside the recruitment action?

Tierce are you kidding me?

My reason for going after you two is your accusations that I am scum and then your flippant dismissal of my questions because you think I am scum and BB's actions AFTER you were recruited.

I gave reasoning as to why you could be scum and you dismissed it. The recruitment is only one aspect. Granted it is a large aspect in my theory, but still there ARE standalone aspects of my theory.

And I think you should know by now that Occam's Razor does not apply to me.

By the way, adding to the crap reasoning by Oversoul: how do you even think it would be balanced to add two scum players to a game while not altering the town pool? Why would BB announce this instead of lying low and recruit scum players 1) without anyone knowing it was his doing and 2) the night before LyLo, thus rendering the game an immediate scum win when town numbers = scum numbers? There is no reason for hypoBBscum-with-recruitable-scumbuddies to recruit last night. None. Ever. No, it does not add 'towncred' he might need now, he could 1) do it in silence and 2) later in the game and no one would know.The more I try to look at this from that "omg they are both scum!!1!11!one!" perspective you might have if you were town, the less sense it makes. You're not stupid, Oversoul. You're scum who knows we're both town and thus isn't even seeing the glaring holes in this theory.

I'm not going to setup speculation or balance speculate since that never ends well at all. I will say one thing, how is adding a town or more fair for any third party/scum? I'm speculating about the information I do have about BB's roles and the possibilities surrounding it.

BB announcing a recruitment would make perfect sense if he thought his life was endanger meaning he wouldn't be able to get to LyLo.

That comment about how I'm not stupid has burned more towns than I can even imagine. Magua tried to use that logic to push my lynch in AFFC after I derped it up and mixed up my colors in my role PM. You've read that game. YOU KNOW MY FEELINGS ON THAT STATEMENT.

Your last comment? Really, Tierce? If I was scum and knew you both were town (which even scum wouldn't know because you could very well be THIRD PARTY which you YET AGAIN are conveniently forgetting) why would I make such a big stink? It obviously isn't helping my case since I'm only attracting attention to myself. Try to pile on more artificial scumminess while you're still alive.

@Oversoul Who is worse? dana or BB

BB. Now that Tierce is in the picture he is content to let her do all the work.

Dana I just don't like in terms of play style although I seem to recall thinking he just has a scummy meta regardless of alignment.

Oversoul: I find it interesting that his anger over being voted seems to parallel that of Hippo's. Possibly a connected 3rd-party group? Lookit:

Words cannot even begin to describe the amount of "what the $@#$!?". I've thought up of some pretty weird ass theories. I've seen some pretty weird ass theories. But that. THAT takes the cake.

Are are a Traflamadorian?

Regardless, what I completely don't understand is how he went from "I personally do not find BB scummy" to thinking that because Tierce is voting for Oversoul, BB is worthy of a vote, especially instead of Tierce. I just don't follow that flow at all.

I've explained. In essence, she is fighting his battle for him while he slithers to the back.

Plus, BB's alignment would be more indicative of Tierce's alignment on the off chance that Tierce was actually town.

I'm not sure I like your questioning of Red Panda since it looks like you are implying he is scum when he is a mason...

Then followed by your next post after both Dana and Amrun vote Phil and... I'm getting suspicious of your slot.

Hey.Hey guys.Why is everyone ignoring my case on Oversoul?

Because it is ridiculous.

I voted him yesterday. Got shit for it, and I've had enough negativity on this site for a while. So I figured instead, I'd let him try to defend himself again.

Waiting for the inevitable Saulres Vote on Oversoul.

For future reference: Amrun, saul, dana jumped off their wagons and onto Phillamon between #601 and #612; likely no more than one scum in this set, see connections with Oversoul

if

he flips scum.

THIS. THIS right here ladies and gentlemen is why I do not trust Tierce or BBmolla with a damn dollar.

I bolded, underlined, and changed the color of the keyword in this post. IF. IF I flip scum. This comes after Tierce has vehemently saying that I AM/MUST be scum. You do not get to make switches in diction of this sort without a flip or role information and neither of those have happened. Now you aren't so certain?

[BBmolla]

I'm sorry I don't have your role PM and don't know for certain what your alignment is. I am sorry that I am not going to trust you on your word simply because you said so.

Instead of calling us scum and making up bullshit theories, you could scumhunt.

[BBmolla]

You are right. I don't understand how much knowledge you've shared but that doesn't mean I'm completely wrong like you are suggesting. Mastin and I have played in many, many games together. Magister Ludi and I have played in many, many games together. We cannot read each other correctly 100% of the time (as you saw with Pony Mafia). You are telling me with this comment that since you have such a long history you are now an expert on BBmolla? I cannot trust that.

You should, it's the truth.

Oversoul you're literally ignoring everything we're telling you.

There is literally zero motivation for me to recruit Tierce as scum. Seriously, would you look back and just look?

-If I was scum, then odds are she wouldn't be once I recruited her. A fucking scum recruiter would be so game breaking it's not even funny.
-If I was scum, I wouldn't recruit the player who can read me perfectly, that's like asking to get lynched.
-If I was scum, why the hell would I bring in a player who can actually scumhunt? I mean, look at the players in this game, more than half the game is inactive pretty much. How would that benefit me?
-If I was scum, why the hell would I go against what I said I was going to do and bring attention to me?
-If I was scum, why would I fake a post restriction lazily to the point where it was obviously fake?

Fuck WIFOM bro, recruiting Tierce would be god damned suicide.

Obviously you aren't going to say that, especially if you are scum.

This is so god damned retarded. Why wouldn't I claim Mason recruiter as town.

I'm not going to setup speculation or balance speculate since that never ends well at all. I will say one thing, how is adding a town or more fair for any third party/scum? I'm speculating about the information I do have about BB's roles and the possibilities surrounding it.

Oversoul there is no way in hell you are this stupid.

BB. Now that Tierce is in the picture he is content to let her do all the work.

She's got good points bro. I want Haddock to hang personally, but I'll settle for Scum-Oversoul-Faking-Dumb as well.

I bolded, underlined, and changed the color of the keyword in this post. IF. IF I flip scum. This comes after Tierce has vehemently saying that I AM/MUST be scum. You do not get to make switches in diction of this sort without a flip or role information and neither of those have happened. Now you aren't so certain?

This is

The biggest pile

Of bullshit

I've seen

In ages

[Oversoul]

I'm sorry I don't have your role PM and don't know for certain what your alignment is. I am sorry that I am not going to trust you on your word simply because you said so.

Instead of calling us scum and making up bullshit theories, you could scumhunt.

How isn't this scumhunting? It has transcended into scumhunting in my opinion.

I am listening to what you both are saying, but that doesn't mean I believe any of it. I did consider the fact that you both were town evidenced by my initial resistance to vote you. When Tierce thought she could get away a mislynch on me and you decided to take a backseat now that you have a White Knight is when that plan failed.

-If I was scum, then odds are she wouldn't be once I recruited her. A fucking scum recruiter would be so game breaking it's not even funny.

I don't understand why you guys are trying to use balance as reasoning in a game like this. There might be some attempt balance, but it is far from balanced.

-If I was scum, I wouldn't recruit the player who can read me perfectly, that's like asking to get lynched.

I've said why if you have balls big enough to fill one of the Great Lakes that this could happen.

-If I was scum, why the hell would I bring in a player who can actually scumhunt? I mean, look at the players in this game, more than half the game is inactive pretty much. How would that benefit me?

You get towncredit for bringing in someone useful, you don't have to work as hard at finding any third party lying around, and you would probably get a friend in the process.

-If I was scum, why the hell would I go against what I said I was going to do and bring attention to me?

Once you recognize this fact the defense has to go out the door. You realize that right, BB?

-If I was scum, why would I fake a post restriction lazily to the point where it was obviously fake?

I have no idea why you would want to do this as either alignment. Although this comment does make me feel reminiscent of AFFC.

This is so god damned retarded. Why wouldn't I claim Mason recruiter as town.

That would only open you up to Mafia shots if you were third party. Plus, the Masons had already been claimed at the time of your claim iirc. I am probably wrong about that sequence of events though.

Oversoul there is no way in hell you are this stupid.

My brain is swiss cheese. Sometimes you get the cheesy parts. Other times you get the holes. I don't really see a problem with what I said there.

She's got good points bro. I want Haddock to hang personally, but I'll settle for Scum-Oversoul-Faking-Dumb as well.

Where is this burden of proficiency coming from? I haven't won an award and I haven't been publicly praised for my skill, but this still happens.

And again. I am giving the town enough information and viewpoints to let them come to the most informed decision.

[BBmolla]

I have no idea why you would want to do this as either alignment. Although this comment does make me feel reminiscent of AFFC.

Okay let's put it this way.

What is more scumsided.

7 town, 2 Scum

or

7 town, 3 Scum

?

[BBmolla]

I don't really see a problem with what I said there.

^Meant to quote this.

[Oversoul]

I have no idea why you would want to do this as either alignment. Although this comment does make me feel reminiscent of AFFC.

Okay let's put it this way.

What is more scumsided.

7 town, 2 Scum

or

7 town, 3 Scum

?

The second one.

[BBmolla]

I have no idea why you would want to do this as either alignment. Although this comment does make me feel reminiscent of AFFC.

Okay let's put it this way.

What is more scumsided.

7 town, 2 Scum

or

7 town, 3 Scum

?

The second one.

Which is why scum recruiting scum doesn't make sense.

[Oversoul]

I think it does...

ShadowGirl + any stray killing role like GNR would fix the problem realisitically..

But I'm crazy.

[Amrun]

Yeah, if you have the set-up in front of you and this is 9-10 player... Which we don't, and it isn't. Terrible argument.

[BBmolla]

Yeah, if you have the set-up in front of you and this is 9-10 player... Which we don't, and it isn't. Terrible argument.

So if you were designing a 26 player game, you don't think 20-6 compared to 19-7 would make a difference?

And I'm aware of third parties, idgaf, they only makes town weaker which solidifies my point.

[Amrun]

Yeah, if you have the set-up in front of you and this is 9-10 player... Which we don't, and it isn't. Terrible argument.

So if you were designing a 26 player game, you don't think 20-6 compared to 19-7 would make a difference?

And I'm aware of third parties, idgaf, they only makes town weaker which solidifies my point.

Yes, but we don't know that it's 20-6 v. 19-7 - and depending on town roles, it might not. And that's NOT how your role works. It ADDS a player.

[BBmolla]

Yeah, if you have the set-up in front of you and this is 9-10 player... Which we don't, and it isn't. Terrible argument.

So if you were designing a 26 player game, you don't think 20-6 compared to 19-7 would make a difference?

And I'm aware of third parties, idgaf, they only makes town weaker which solidifies my point.

Yes, but we don't know that it's 20-6 v. 19-7 - and depending on town roles, it might not. And that's NOT how your role works. It ADDS a player.

20-6 = 20-7 in balance?