Judge, Jury, and Executioner - Over


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Post Post #825 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:58 am

Post by Teleporting Speed Hippos »

AurorusVox wrote:
whispersilk wrote:Doesn't that make defender more likely to be town?

No, because if the "scum-plan" was to frame KoC for executing Thor, defender would want to come straight in and point the finger.

MoS is being a jerk but probTown. If you're gonna white knight, you make sure you do it before the townflip.

Oops.
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Post Post #826 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:09 am

Post by Nocmen »

I find it implausible that there is not an ability that could be used to manipulate the kills at least once. If KoC is scum, he's playing a huge gambit. I don't like the fact that his only defense for his actions is WIFOM. Something that was beginning to be setup much earlier in the game with his votes on Thor. Something that it seems like requires Day Talk, which I don't see from Ice Guy's previously modded games.

Unvote: Vijay
Vote: d3fend3r
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Post Post #827 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:15 am

Post by whispersilk »

AurorusVox wrote:
whispersilk wrote:Doesn't that make defender more likely to be town?

No, because if the "scum-plan" was to frame KoC for executing Thor, defender would want to come straight in and point the finger.

MoS is being a jerk but probTown. If you're gonna white knight, you make sure you do it before the townflip.


No, my point is that is defender is scum, he would have already known the details. The fact he didn't read what NoC said properly and got confused could indicate that he's town. Why would scum draw attention to themselves like that?
"That whisper is quite dangerous. She has been correct 100% of the time. Mime vig, scum vig, and now scum lynch. I've never seen such perfect accuracy before o_o. Enemy or not, I tip my hat to her. Her skillz are in the mad category." - hahonryuu, Paris Mafia 3
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Post Post #828 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:19 am

Post by IceGuy »

Vote Count


Knight of Cydonia (7): WrathChild, WrathChild, TheShadow, Nero Cain, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Ser Panda
Nocmen (7): D3f3nd3r, Quilford, DoomYoshi, TheShadow, TheShadow, Nero Cain, vijay2vasandani

D3f3nd3r (5): Nocmen, DoomYoshi, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nocmen
Gooner (4): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, DCLXVI, DCLXVI
WrathChild (4): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin
TheShadow (2): Quilford, Quilford
StrangerCoug (2): Ser Panda, Nero Cain
whispersilk (2): Sir Bastion, guille2015
guille2015 (2): Nocmen, DoomYoshi
Mastermind of Sin (2): guille2015, guille2015
Nero Cain (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, StrangerCoug

18
votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has
3
votes.
With
19
alive, it's
10
to hammer.
There are
57
votes in play,
0
of which are frozen, leaving
57
votes active.

Deadline is August 31st, noon CEST.
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Post Post #829 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:42 am

Post by DCLXVI »

whispersilk wrote:
Lynchings and killings are barbarian.
This game features an orderly judicial system.

Every day, the town selects three defendants in a democratic vote. The three defendants will be jailed by the sheriff at the end of the day and brought before the court.

Unfortunately, the mafia has not only infiltrated the town, but also the judicial system. Luckily, the judge is always guaranteed to be a law-abiding citizen, and the jury is still randomly selected.
However, the executioner is selected anew every night by a suspicious clerk, and the cases always seem to end up before the court in a particular order.


In a deliberation phase, one defendant each will be assigned to the judge, the jury and the executioner by the mafia. They will be given a defense statement by the defendant and are expected to return a verdict by the end of the deliberation phase. Both judge and executioner can freely decide to convict or acquit; for the jury, a vote will be held, with a majority required for conviction.

However, as the numbers dwindle, the judicial system will start to crumble. At first, there will not be enough citizens to fill a jury, and only judge and executioner remain.
Finally, as not even a judge and an executioner can be found in the town, vigilante justice makes a return.


It doesn't look like there was any other way for Thor to have been killed other than by the executioner.
The only chance of a vig in the setup is when there is no longer enough players to make up a jury.
I'm assuming that "killings" in the bolded section above would also apply to a SK as it obviously does to a vig and scum.


Whispersilk, try not to spread misinformation.

IceGuy wrote:
Vigilante Justice
When there are four or less players, normal lynching mechanics apply,
with no Night and no Deliberation Phase. There is one exception: If nobody was lynched, Mafia gets 36 hours to nominate a person to kill.


viginante justice doesn't mean there will suddenly be a town vig when we get down to a few players, it means there will be lynches.
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a scumtell.
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Post Post #830 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:14 am

Post by StrangerCoug »

whispersilk wrote:No, my point is that is defender is scum, he would have already known the details. The fact he didn't read what NoC said properly and got confused could indicate that he's town.

Misreading a person's statement is a null tell, not a town tell.

whispersilk wrote:Why would scum draw attention to themselves like that?

This is WIFOM.
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Post Post #831 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:53 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Lurking is not a scumtell. Don't be stupid.
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Post Post #832 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:59 am

Post by Sir Bastion »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Lurking is not a scumtell. Don't be stupid.


Is this in response to me or to something since?
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #833 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:38 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

To you.
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Post Post #834 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:19 am

Post by DoomYoshi »

I disagreed with wrathchild's assertion that KoC yelled mod-error. No such event occured.
MoS, many things appear to be obvious to me. If I only didn't say the things that appeared obvious I would probably post nothing. I don't think you have a legitimate gripe with the death of arugula if you made no effort to defend him. Even now, all I have heard is that he was obvtown. For what reason, I wonder, expecting no reply.
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Post Post #835 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:27 am

Post by Axelrod »

Okay then, with KoC claiming Ex. I have nothing to add to that. It would seem we now have one of 2 possibilities:

(1) He's scum and simply playing a gambit. Scum named him Executioner, he killed Thor, but they were afraid he might be "caught" if he lied about being Ex., and so he just came right out and claimed it, and lied about pardoning. This is possible. It would be a gambit, and risky, but definitely possible.

(2) He's Town, and the scum have a way to override the Executioner (or any group?). Could be like an "extra" kill or something like that. They decide to send Thor to a Townie to avoid any of them being "caught" as Ex. and don't care what the Ex. does because the plan is to kill Thor anyway. I guess this is also possible, but it bothers me more the idea that the scum have some kind of override or way to kill independent of the Judge, Jury, Ex. set up. Seems anti-theme.

I am leaning towards the "gambit" side of this equation. It's simpler for one. KoC's general hostility and referring to everyone as f****** ****** does not get him any points either. The burning rage seems a bit over the top. The only thing that gives him points is the meta of "would the scum really be that afraid - on N1 - of being "caught" naming a scum Executioner to the point they would make up a gambit like this." Whereas, if they really had this over-ride power, it makes reasonable sense to name a Townie Ex. on a Night they are just going to kill the target anyway. Removes the target and further creates the possibility for a frame job. Why "frame" KoC though? Why pick him as Ex? This also doesn't make a lot of sense to me under this theory. I would think I would want to pick someone more "Townie" looking if I was scum.

This is enough for one:

Vote: KoC


On a different subject, I don't understand the votes for Nocmen. At all. For Nocmen to be scum, you would have to believe that there were 2 Town and 1 scum nominated, and the scum chose to send their own (1) not to the Jury, where he'd have a chance to be judged by a group which could include mafia members (2) not to the Ex., who they could name themselves and guarantee safety (3) but to an unknown guaranteed Town Judge, who could very easily have been someone voting for Nocmen and wanting him dead. This would have been a huge, and seemingly unnecessary gamble for the scum. I can't believe this is what happened. I can very easily believe it with Nocmen being Town. That makes just so much more sense. You can WIFOM things to death, and maybe the scum were hoping the Judge would do just that, but I tend to doubt.

MoS is rubbinog me the wrong way for many reasons, the worst of which are his pronouncements with certainty regarding things he has no business being certain about, not to mention things which is he flat out incorrect about.

Vote: MoS


It appears Gooner has been awol from the site since 8-6, so his non-participation in the Jury is kind of a null tell. I am waiting for him to come back and say something more. I don't have any real "reads" on anyone else in there. I think Whispersilk comes off slightly better looking for how he was against the Argula lynch. Given what people had said it would have been very easy to just pile on as scum without fear of looking especially suspicious.

All I got time for for now. Back home on Monday,
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Post Post #836 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:49 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Axelrod wrote:KoC's general hostility and referring to everyone as f****** ****** does not get him any points either. The burning rage seems a bit over the top.


This is retarded and should not be factored into your case.
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Post Post #837 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:33 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:To you.



Ahh ok then.

Well I never said you lurking was a scumtell. In fact i specified you never interacted with arugula's wagon specifically at any point during day 1, The most interaction you had with arugula was asking him to vote for yoshi. That's not lurking and I never insinuated it was.

to put simply is I'm wondering why now you feel the need to talk about the stupidity of the arugula wagon not once but twice today when you avoided it completely on day 1.

perhaps i thought you might want to discuss scum motivation behind the wagon but then you say

The lynch on Thor seemed more scum-driven though, since town players are often suckers for VI lynches.


So how influenced by scum do you think the arugula wagon is now? Do you think the jury vote was scum pushed as arugula suggested?

Where is the productive intent?
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #838 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:53 pm

Post by DoomYoshi »

Good point On the nocmen wagon, axel.

UNVOTE: Nocmen
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Post Post #839 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:07 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Sir Bastion wrote:
Mastermind of Sin wrote:To you.



Ahh ok then.

Well I never said you lurking was a scumtell. In fact i specified you never interacted with arugula's wagon specifically at any point during day 1, The most interaction you had with arugula was asking him to vote for yoshi. That's not lurking and I never insinuated it was.

to put simply is I'm wondering why now you feel the need to talk about the stupidity of the arugula wagon not once but twice today when you avoided it completely on day 1.

perhaps i thought you might want to discuss scum motivation behind the wagon but then you say

The lynch on Thor seemed more scum-driven though, since town players are often suckers for VI lynches.


So how influenced by scum do you think the arugula wagon is now? Do you think the jury vote was scum pushed as arugula suggested?

Where is the productive intent?


Actually I was talking about your insinuation that Arugula's lurking made him scummier. You were trying to justify your read from D1 with bullshit.

Who said I have productive intent? That would imply that I actually give a shit about doing more than saying how retarded you guys are.
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Post Post #840 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:21 pm

Post by IceGuy »

Vote Count


Knight of Cydonia (8): WrathChild, WrathChild, TheShadow, Nero Cain, vijay2vasandani, vijay2vasandani, Ser Panda, Axelrod

Nocmen (6): D3f3nd3r, Quilford, TheShadow, TheShadow, Nero Cain, vijay2vasandani
D3f3nd3r (5): Nocmen, DoomYoshi, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nocmen
Gooner (4): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, DCLXVI, DCLXVI
WrathChild (4): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin
Mastermind of Sin (3): guille2015, guille2015, Axelrod
TheShadow (2): Quilford, Quilford
StrangerCoug (2): Ser Panda, Nero Cain
whispersilk (2): Sir Bastion, guille2015
guille2015 (2): Nocmen, DoomYoshi
Nero Cain (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, StrangerCoug

18
votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has
3
votes.
With
19
alive, it's
10
to hammer.
There are
57
votes in play,
0
of which are frozen, leaving
57
votes active.

Deadline is August 31st, noon CEST.
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Post Post #841 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:44 pm

Post by vijay2vasandani »

Yeah Axel, but then they'd have exactly the argument you just presented to keep him alive no?

UNVOTE: KoC
VOTE: Axelrod
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Post Post #842 (ISO) » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:48 pm

Post by Quilford »

Not sure why the top three wagons are what they are considering the level of scummy opportunism present in TheShadow's ISO
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Post Post #843 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:21 am

Post by Sir Bastion »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:

Actually I was talking about your insinuation that Arugula's lurking made him scummier. You were trying to justify your read from D1 with bullshit.


Ahh well as I said that was drawn from recent experience of a long twilight (which you are more then aware of...). So I guess life is full of bullshit then.


Who said I have productive intent? That would imply that I actually give a shit about doing more than saying how retarded you guys are.


If you dont have productive intent then what are you doing with yourself? I rather have a productive MOS then a cranky annoying one, but again life is full of bullshit.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #844 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:58 am

Post by IceGuy »

Vote Count


Knight of Cydonia (7): WrathChild, WrathChild, TheShadow, Nero Cain, vijay2vasandani, Ser Panda, Axelrod

Nocmen (6): D3f3nd3r, Quilford, TheShadow, TheShadow, Nero Cain, vijay2vasandani
D3f3nd3r (5): Nocmen, DoomYoshi, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Teleporting Speed Hippos, Nocmen
Gooner (4): Sir Bastion, Sir Bastion, DCLXVI, DCLXVI
WrathChild (4): StrangerCoug, StrangerCoug, Mastermind of Sin, Mastermind of Sin
Mastermind of Sin (3): guille2015, guille2015, Axelrod
TheShadow (2): Quilford, Quilford
StrangerCoug (2): Ser Panda, Nero Cain
whispersilk (2): Sir Bastion, guille2015
guille2015 (2): Nocmen, DoomYoshi
Nero Cain (2): Teleporting Speed Hippos, StrangerCoug
Axelrod (1): vijay2vasandani

18
votes are currently not on a player.

Every player has
3
votes.
With
19
alive, it's
10
to hammer.
There are
57
votes in play,
0
of which are frozen, leaving
57
votes active.

Deadline is August 31st, noon CEST.

Gooner has been prodded.
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Post Post #845 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:31 am

Post by StrangerCoug »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Who said I have productive intent? That would imply that I actually give a shit about doing more than saying how retarded you guys are.

I'm not happy with the way this game is going either, but that does not get you out of scumhunting. It's still early enough in the game for us to rebound and there
ARE
good scum candidates out there.

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Post Post #846 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 5:19 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

I'm voting, aren't I?
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Post Post #847 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:02 am

Post by StrangerCoug »

Yes, and your double vote is in the same place mine is, but directing an ad hom attack at practically the entire game is unproductive.
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Post Post #848 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:36 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Maybe it will make people stop repeating the same mistake again with KoC.
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Post Post #849 (ISO) » Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:44 am

Post by Sir Bastion »

Mastermind of Sin wrote:Maybe it will make people stop repeating the same mistake again with KoC.


ffs

If you have a problem with the KoC wagon then say so?
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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