Open 459: There is a New Scum in Town. Game Over Town Wins!

[uctriton00]

Not voting Maenara today. He reminds me of me when I'm town.

KMD has pretty much disappeared after being railed against. Almost like how Fizz did. Either both he and Fizz are townies, or KMD is just copying. I need to read other people in the game first for comparison.

[uctriton00]

Actually LS, what was lame and scummy about being on KMD?

[Lastsurvivor]

Actually LS, what was lame and scummy about being on KMD?

Mm, no, I was talking about your reaction to his vote.

What is this random vote on me for

I don't like how you felt the need to make a snarky remark about the vote, but didn't actually ask him why he was voting you or say anything useful overall.

[uctriton00]

What is this random vote on me for => what is this vote on me for => what is this vote for

[Maenara]

LS is making up accusations all over the place in order to distract people from the wagon on him. In other news, bears are catholic, water defecates in the woods and the pope is wet.

[Majiffy]

I don't think I like the last survivor lynch very much.

Yeah well I don't like you very much.

[the director]

What is the vote count?

[pirate mollie]

I don't think I like the last survivor lynch very much.

Yeah well I don't like you very much.

yes you do

[Majiffy]

Ok yeah I do.

[Lastsurvivor]

LS is making up accusations all over the place in order to distract people from the wagon on him. In other news, bears are catholic, water defecates in the woods and the pope is wet.

Uct asked me a question. I answered. Try harder.

By my count I'm at L-3.

[Maenara]

Well. Good.

VOTE: Lastsurvivor

[penguin_alien]

Lastsurvivor, I'm rereading your ISO and I still don't understand why you think Majiffy is scum. As far as I can tell, you're both voting each other because of your reactions to the other's accusations. What am I missing in your case against Majiffy?

[Nachomamma8]

Look at Fe's ISO. He makes no real posts in between #236 and #317. Fe didn't post...therefore I had nothing to comment on. The read didn't disappear.

He didn't make any "real posts" for the majority of the game. But when he showed up again, it was just more of the same crap. I'd expect that to reinforce your scumread or affect it in some way, but again, you ignored it until other people called it scummy.

if I see something scummy I'm going to comment on it even if it means questioning the people that are on the same wagon as me. Take it or leave it.

ok

I have a very hard time buying that Majiffy convinced you to "change your mind" by just reiterating things that he already said. If you thought Maj was pushing an idiotic mislynch, wouldn't you have already read those points? If you thought Fe was town, like you repeatedly asserted, wouldn't you have read Fe's posts that Maj quoted? What caused you to think differently about them?

Majiffy never specifically changed my mind, but he encouraged me to keep looking over Fe's posts. Originally I had him read as the type of player who would probably be too nervous to pull something like #361 as scum and it seemed like a pretty honest effort, but then I looked over 1298 and I saw how completely different his play was there, and I was pretty okay with hammering.

Keep in mind that when I voted Majiffy, Buldermar hadn't made his first post yet. And I wasn't going to vote Buldermar without him making a post.

You weren't even going to mention buldermar without him making a post? And then we he did and you found it townish (why did you find it townish?), you weren't going to bring him up then either?

[Majiffy]

Rach can we get an updated vote-count?

[buldermar]

Well. Good.

VOTE: Lastsurvivor

Did you have anything specific in mind with your "Well. Good." comment?

[buldermar]

Or is voting your definition of trying harder?

[pirate mollie]

if I unstuck myself from my pet theory for five minutes I would go with maenara being scum.

[Kmd4390]

But if you want to lynch him I'm totally on board. In fact if you can gather 5 of your closest friends in this game so we can do it I'd hammer without a question.

Meh. Now isn't the time to lynch Majiffy. I still think there's a good chance he's town.

---------------------------------

In general, I'm pretty sure that Bork, Director, Kmd, Peng, Mollie, Maj are town. They are in order of decreasing towniness.

NS, Uct, Buldermar, and Nacho I could see being scum. Increasing order of scumminess.

I actually like most of that list... And the Nacho case in 848...

In response to 849,
-If it's playstyle difference, whatever, but I feel like you need to account for all of the little bit of information you have.
-I feel that I already looked at players->Fe somewhat thoroughly. Fe->players is really all that is left.
-The fact that something can't be defended against doesn't mean it's not a tell. Is it fair to the person you are voting in that case? Probably not. Will it help town if you catch scum and vote them in that case? Absolutely. For example, Fizz was scummy as hell. If Buldorwhatever didn't look scummy, and Fizz hadn't been the counterwagon to a scum lynch, I'd absolutely be voting Buld on my Fizz case from Day 1 (assuming I didn't find anything better).
-

And if anyone's going to shout "LS, your voting Nacho based on his interactions with Fe. Why is it fair for him but not for you?" please read my next statement. What I did makes sense from a town perspective: My Fe read never wavered.

Nacho's read on Fe didn't waver -- it went from being solid town to solid scum.

I don't have fancy statistics or anything to prove this, but I feel like I've seen more scum keep their buddies as scum reads without voting them until they are going to be lynched anyway than I've seen them completely change a read like that. And I feel like I've seen more town go from a town read on scum to a scum read as cases are presented. Scum like to keep their reads consistent because it looks town for whatever reason. A good townie will change their reads quite a bit as more information becomes available.

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getting a strong as fuck townread from UCT, but i never trust any reads i make on him
uct, am i right?

Can you explain this?

By the way, 883 basically sums up my thoughts on Last's Day 1.

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No, that's bullshit. You've repeatedly asserted that you think I will flip scum. But you've also asserted that Maenara is your highest scum read. How can you think both of these things and not think that we're the scum team together? That's a huge disconnect. It doesn't make sense for you to be searching for connectional tells from me when I'm not your highest scum read either.

And yet it's not bullshit to look for scum on the wagon that you are supporting before it even flips... Noted, I guess.....

However, the associative tell that "LS made a case on Nacho and could possibly be bussing him" is flimsy because it all boils down to WIFOM.

WIFOM isn't always flimsy either though... Hell, the entire game is based around WIFOM. Anything that can be considered a tell is WIFOM. WIFOM is basically the core of mafia.

So...

Yeah.

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I don't think I like the last survivor lynch very much.

Why?

[Nachomamma8]

Can you explain this?

Him defending Fizz initially and then having paranoid leanings while Fizz was flaking seems like a subtlety UCT wouldn't bother faking as scum.

[Kmd4390]

Unofficially, here's what I found for a current vote count.

Kmd4390 (2) uctriton00, Buldemar
Lastsurvivor (5) Kmd4390, Nachomamma8, borkjerfkin, Majiffy, Maenara
Maenara (1) penguin_alien
Nobody Special (1) pirate mollie
Majiffy (2) the director, Lastsurvivor

Not Voting: Nobody Special

[Kmd4390]

He actually hopped on the initial fizz case though.

[Nachomamma8]

He actually hopped on the initial fizz case though.

He hopped onto the initial fizz case, but backed off it later and started defending him.

[borkjerfkin]

LS is making up accusations all over the place in order to distract people from the wagon on him. In other news, bears are catholic, water defecates in the woods and the pope is wet.

In all seriousness, what should he be doing, as hypothetical town, in such a scenario?

[RachMarie]

Vote Count 2.4




Kmd4390 (1) uctriton00, Buldemar
uctriton00 (2) Kmd4390, Maenara
Maenara (1) penguin_alien
Lastsurvivor (5) Kmd4390, Nachomamma8, borkjerfkin, Majiffy, Maenara (L-2)
Nobody Special (1) pirate mollie
Majiffy (2) the director, Lastsurvivor


Not Voting

Nobody Special

With 12 it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is in (expired on 2012-12-25 15:45:36)

Sorry for taking so long. RL stuff happened. And NS has been prodded again.--Rach

[Maenara]

Did you have anything specific in mind with your "Well. Good." comment?

"Well. Good. Now I know how many votes there are on you, and can hence vote like I said in my previous post."