Micro 158: borkgame (Game Over)

[Majiffy]

Holy cow I go to sleep and ya all post a novel...

actual content after coffee..

I feel like you have this exact post in a text document on your desktop, to post whenever you enter a game after some extended period of time.

[RachMarie]

umm that would be silly especially since most games are not this voluminous.... just some that are.

[Selkies]

I was so excited when I saw there were new posts.

[Varsoon]

Faking scumminess is good for early reaction tests, even if it gets you quickhammered because you'll flip town and it'll narrow the suspects to the wagon. Also, it generates content from reactions.

Disagree to an extent. It DOES, but you need to be able to get yourself out of the hole you dig. If you can't, and you get lynched, VCA on the wagon is often useless as town and scum will both be jumping on for the same reason - you were being legitimately scummy.

Exactly my point. If you can't make yourself as transparent as possible, you lose as town. That's what town failure is, it's inability to command rhetoric.
Ironically, that's the same for scum failure.

Faking scumminess is good for early reaction tests, even if it gets you quickhammered because you'll flip town and it'll narrow the suspects to the wagon. Also, it generates content from reactions.

This is

What

"Fake scumminess"

"People who vote you are now scum instead of scumhunting town who look for, oh idk, scumminess?"

What

At this point, I'm feeling like we both think in a very different way and the way we engage the game is wholly opposite. This also may be due to the fact that I'm town and you're scum, but I think that ideology is more typical than alignment-based modes of thought.

Varsoon, if you've answered this before I apologize for asking again.

Aside from here at MS have you played much mafia?

- f

No, this is my first exposure. I was introduced to the game by another player on this site who is also acquaintances with me and Does Bo Know. As of now, I have only ever completed one game of Mafia in my life, and it was on this site.

Varsoon's post 200 is so spoiler-filled that I'm not gong to try to quote it and insert my observations.

I asked earlier about mafia experience and that post is bristling with mafia theory (rather unique theory in my estimation) so I'll retract that question.
His reply to Bo's 104 is interesting. He explains that his non-voting post about scummy absolute statements was a reaction test, but seems ambivalent about the utility of such testing.

His reply to other-Selkies' post 141 struck me as unintentional irony. He asks that we format our posts so that they are easier to quote and respond to in a post that I'm discouraged from quoting and responding to. :/

Reply to other-Selkies' post 143:

More interesting game theory. I think I remember reading a game played to this theory once. It was painful to read. One town special after another was put to L-1, and forced to out before a vanilla townie was finally lynched. I lost interest after reading into day 2 and found something less depressing to do.

Here the previously ambivalent reaction test is now a trap, which other-Selkies has haplessly wandered into.

Will get to his scum reads in a bit.

@Varsoon, I'm reluctant to just dismiss this as scummy. I'm going to break down and read your previous MS game.

- f

It's hard to respond to roughly 10 pages of posts without either saying too little or being hard to cite. I'm sorry about that. Consider keeping your own posts and responses as concise as possible and do as little quoting as possible and then people's responses to you will, ergo, be less convoluted.
I'm sorry the game you read was terrible. I hope that this game isn't terrible, and that my involvement in it doesn't make it so bad for you. The last thing I'd want is for other people to not enjoy the game, since that's its main draw. Again, I think that my way of engaging the game and thinking about it is worlds apart from yours, and that's what is causing such a rift between us.

Our other game is long for the first day, then painfully short afterwards, as I put us in Lylo on a stab in the dark and to move the game forward, but made the mistake of mislynching on the final day instead of suggesting either a no-lynch or thinking it out. I think that I'm just not really happy with the way that longer games pan out, and I feel more attuned towards games with less players. I'unno. Read up.

Anyway, kept reading this and Bo's antagonism of Sven seems off.
I think Ice's assessment of Rach is fairly telling, and I'd like to see what she thinks about it.
Still holding Sven and Selk as my highest scum-reads, Bo's conning as less town to me, Icebox as more town than before.

I judge people based off of the content they produce.
Become transparent in your content,
Prove your alignment.

[Selkies]

My reply to your "case" on page 9 needs attention

[RachMarie]

wait what?

Varsoon have you played a Newbie game yet?

You have never played Mafia on another site and this is your 2nd game?


ehh seems like an easy lynch here guys n gals what exactly is your case on him?

[Selkies]

Varsoon's post 200 is so spoiler-filled that I'm not gong to try to quote it and insert my observations.

I asked earlier about mafia experience and that post is bristling with mafia theory (rather unique theory in my estimation) so I'll retract that question.
His reply to Bo's 104 is interesting. He explains that his non-voting post about scummy absolute statements was a reaction test, but seems ambivalent about the utility of such testing.

His reply to other-Selkies' post 141 struck me as unintentional irony. He asks that we format our posts so that they are easier to quote and respond to in a post that I'm discouraged from quoting and responding to. :/

Reply to other-Selkies' post 143:

More interesting game theory. I think I remember reading a game played to this theory once. It was painful to read. One town special after another was put to L-1, and forced to out before a vanilla townie was finally lynched. I lost interest after reading into day 2 and found something less depressing to do.

Here the previously ambivalent reaction test is now a trap, which other-Selkies has haplessly wandered into.

Will get to his scum reads in a bit.

@Varsoon, I'm reluctant to just dismiss this as scummy. I'm going to break down and read your previous MS game.

- f

It's hard to respond to roughly 10 pages of posts without either saying too little or being hard to cite. I'm sorry about that. Consider keeping your own posts and responses as concise as possible and do as little quoting as possible and then people's responses to you will, ergo, be less convoluted.
I'm sorry the game you read was terrible. I hope that this game isn't terrible, and that my involvement in it doesn't make it so bad for you. The last thing I'd want is for other people to not enjoy the game, since that's its main draw. Again, I think that my way of engaging the game and thinking about it is worlds apart from yours, and that's what is causing such a rift between us.[/quote]
I am not sure you know what my way of engaging the game even is. I've been playing for years in a short-day format where game days last 12 to 24 hours usually. And majority lynch is usually not the lynch mechanism - player with the most votes dies unless nolynch is voted. I'm in learning mode, adapting strategies that work well in that format to how the game is played here.

Our other game is long for the first day, then painfully short afterwards, as I put us in Lylo on a stab in the dark and to move the game forward, but made the mistake of mislynching on the final day instead of suggesting either a no-lynch or thinking it out. I think that I'm just not really happy with the way that longer games pan out, and I feel more attuned towards games with less players. I'unno. Read up.

I like larger games. 12 players or more preferably. I'm going to back off, given your actual amount of in-game experience. Practical experience goes a long way in proving and tempering theory.

Anyway, kept reading this and Bo's antagonism of Sven seems off.
I think Ice's assessment of Rach is fairly telling, and I'd like to see what she thinks about it.
Still holding Sven and Selk as my highest scum-reads, Bo's conning as less town to me, Icebox as more town than before.

Oh well.

I judge people based off of the content they produce.
Become transparent in your content,
Prove your alignment.

I strive for strategic transparency as town. I strive to look transparent as scum. I find the former much easier than the latter. I believe I've been transparent so far, and I plan to keep it that way.

- f

[Selkies]

gah. screwed up a quote.

[Varsoon]

wait what?

Varsoon have you played a Newbie game yet?

You have never played Mafia on another site and this is your 2nd game?


ehh seems like an easy lynch here guys n gals what exactly is your case on him?

Hope you're not serious.
If you are, fuck you.

[RachMarie]

well that was a strange response to recognizing your level of experience

Lemme explain here it is nothing against you, easy lynches are something scum look for and jump on to say see how towniy I am, especially if there is already suspicion on that player. I am often an easy lynch in games too so it is nothing personal. Basically you kinda pushed my IC button... I am an IC in the Newbie games, plus just starting to mod my first one.

So say player A is new and makes posts...

3 players go oh yeah scum slips and vote....

then someone else jumps in and votes (especially if it puts the player at l-1 or hammers them). Or just keeps harping on them being scum without ever setting down a vote. That tends to be a good scum tell.

[Majiffy]

Exactly my point. If you can't make yourself as transparent as possible, you lose as town. That's what town failure is, it's inability to command rhetoric.
Ironically, that's the same for scum failure.

Unfortunately, not all players play the same; which is why I brought up my comment. Using your strategy as a broad-catch all will do more harm than good, and expecting it to be followed as gospel will hurt your reads more than it will help.

[Selkies]

Votecount 1.2

[3] Svenskt Stål (Does Bo Know, Disturbed_One, Selkies)
[2] Selkies (Varsoon, Majiffy)
[2] Varsoon (Icebox, Jennifer)
[1] Does Bo Know (Svenskt Stål)
[1] Majiffy (RachMarie)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-04-24 20:00:00)

I didn't realize Varsoon has two votes on him. The count isn't up to date. orcinus-Selkies moved our vote to Majiffy, so I believe it's currently a 4-way tie. orcinus and I have been talking off and on about Bo. Right now, I'm thinking that's where our vote should be. I'm at the point where I'd like our votes to be consensus.

- f

[Selkies]

^^ By "our" I mean orcinus' and mine. Though some consensus with players I'm feeling townish about would be pretty cool too.

- f

[borkjerfkin]

Votecount 1.3

[2] Majiffy (RachMarie, Selkies)
[2] Selkies (Varsoon, Majiffy)
[2] Svenskt Stål (Does Bo Know, Disturbed_One)
[1] Does Bo Know (Svenskt Stål)
[1] Varsoon (Jennifer)

[1] Not Voting (Icebox)

With 9 alive, it is 5 to lynch.

Let me know if you see any problems.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-04-24 20:00:00)

[Majiffy]

Will you be around? I'm going to start with some ISOs because hell if I'm going to reread this damned argument.

- f

>still waiting

[Selkies]

Will you be around? I'm going to start with some ISOs because hell if I'm going to reread this damned argument.

- f

>still waiting

342
343
344
346
356

I posted some thoughts about Bo earlier during the dust storm. 271

[Selkies]

^^ By "our" I mean orcinus' and mine. Though some consensus with players I'm feeling townish about would be pretty cool too.

- f

And Selkies are consensed enough.

VOTE: Bo

- f

[Svenskt Stål]

[Svenskt Stål]

Gonna get som schoolwork done (lol) then I will have an hour to contribute.

Majiffy, from a quick skim you are coming of bad in your efforts on selkies, change gear and move on.

[Svenskt Stål]

Dont fear me people, the kraken that is my morning mood will not be unleashed.

[Majiffy]

ff - I was talking more about the 'are you going to be around' bit, I thought you wanted to interact directly with me.
Sven - You'd be the only other gear I'm considering at the moment, so you should probably hold your tongue.

[Svenskt Stål]

That seems so fucking retarded, "I am considering you as an alternative, so stfu". But its you so nothing should be suprising.

On a diffrent note, as jennifer and disturbed one checked in yet?

[Selkies]

ff - I was talking more about the 'are you going to be around' bit, I thought you wanted to interact directly with me.
Sven - You'd be the only other gear I'm considering at the moment, so you should probably hold your tongue.

Damn you I was going to be gone for an hour or so.

I thought that comparing notes might be a decent place to start.

Any thoughts on Jennifer? Have you played a game with her?

p-edit lol

[RachMarie]

DO has

no sign of Jen yet she will probably end up getting the ol cattle prod.

[Selkies]

DO has

no sign of Jen yet she will probably end up getting the ol cattle prod.

No, she made a laundry list post and voted Varsoon earlier. 187