Newbie 1361: The Ninja Council (Game Over)

[mrbungle]

should read as:

well whatever. it doesn';;t look like people want to lynch him so he can provide his own defense for the time being. i'm more interested in talking about leviathan.

see post 108

tldr of that post is that he's being somewhat active yet not pushing anything or giving any relevant original opinions. his most game-related contribution so far is saying that he has a town read on me all the while suggesting that i should be lynched. apart from that all he's done is make some non alignment indicative posts about nature of self voters . in fact those posts are his largest contributions to the thread

[gene1991]

I have a question for everyone: Do we really want to take 19 more days to decide who to lynch? I mean, I don't know how we'll be any better off in 19 days than we are now-ish. Then again, maybe I just want it to be tomorrow already so we can have new information by having one less person to be suspicious of.

It would be nice if the people who aren't talking so much (myself included), would talk more, but there's honestly nothing really to say. The only thing to talk about is who we think is maf. but we have nothing to base anything on, really. And then we talk about how your reasons are based on nothing therefore you are maf. But your original accusation was based on nothing and was just for the sake of needing to have a discussion. So it all comes down to nothing. I based my reasoning on your reasoning which was based on nothing. We have nothing.

I just want it to be tomorrow already, I guess. I can imagine it being beneficial for day 2 to last for weeks, but not day 1.

[FLLhawk]

I have a question for everyone: Do we really want to take 19 more days to decide who to lynch? I mean, I don't know how we'll be any better off in 19 days than we are now-ish.

Consider that town starts with no alignment information, whereas scum starts with all the alignment information (sans power roles). Given this situation, it is in the town's best interest to have as much discussion as possible before lynching because discussion = information. We don't necessarily have to go a full 19 days if we have a good bead on someone, but at this point it is only beneficial to scum if we rush to a lynch just for the sake of moving to day 2.

The best thing you can do is try to generate discussion. Try asking people questions. Also ask questions of those who have said little. Follow up on those questions and vote if you are not satisfied with the answers or don't get answers.

[gene1991]

Well I wasn't thinking that we would lynch someone, I was thinking that we would no lynch today.
I guess that's because that's how I've always played mafia, where night always comes first, and day 1 someone has already died. so now that we don't have that, I don't know where to go. lol.

[FLLhawk]

Well I wasn't thinking that we would lynch someone, I was thinking that we would no lynch today.

No lynching is an awful idea. We want discussion and a lynch because both provide important information. Even a mislynch provides valuable information. Furthermore, the town's win probability is always higher with an odd number of townies. Thus, town has a higher win probability at 5/2 than at 6/2.

[mrbungle]

imo the only lynch that makes the slightest bit of sense RIGHT NOW is borno, for lurker policy reasons. but that's a silly lynch and we should wait. there's no point in speeding up the game if a few people have yet to start playing.

gene who do you to lynch? have you read my arguments about leviathan?

and fllhawk is right. no-lynching is a huge waste of town's ability to figure out motivations

[FLLhawk]

so now that we don't have that, I don't know where to go. lol

If you are town, the only way you can gather information at this point is to ask questions and generate discussion. If you aren't sure what kinds of questions to ask, just browse through the first few pages of some game threads and you'll get some good ideas.

[leviathan93]

First of all, Id like to say that I am extremely busy. therefore I WILL be popping IN and OUT of games without much warning. I haven't had much time fully comprehend and post my thoughts on the matter. just add little bits of insight because I WANT to be helpful. but I guess if y'all would rather I never said anything at all I guess I could just not waste the effort to even do that. =P

more specifics upcoming. but heres a bit.

bungle is obvious naive noob town but his inciting everyone and riling everyone up as well as his continued talking and digging himself a deeper hole seriously makes him a liability even though I still think he is town and most likely not scum. just that he probably shouldn't make it to lynch or lose or further along in the game if he is going to continue acting the way he is.

My proposed Alignment: Town. but BAD town.

Borno needs to simply stop lurking and join the game just so we can start getting reads on him. However people should understand that just because he is lurking that isn't necessarily a scum tell.

my proposed Alignment: NULL

David Jones

I like that he actually has content in the 3 posts he has. post 47 of his seems like he is trying to be helpful and not overly so. I give him town points for that. his second main post post 99 is nice as well. nothing out of the ordinary seeming. he posts his current reads though. my only critique of that is that I would prefer more reasoning and more posts before saying his reads but good nonetheless.

My proposed Alignment: leaning Town

FillHawk

This is what I like to see. 16 posts. He seems to be into the game and probably has a good grasp on it. I give FLLhawk a major town bonus for the way he conducts himself. He seems experienced and rational. He seems very much townie for me because of this. His post on 107 really gives me a "helping town" vibe. and just the way he has currently dealt with the game gives me town vibes.

My proposed alignment: My strongest town read at the moment.

Gene boy

I get an innocent newbie vibe from him. something that I really think is had to fake. the questions. the fact that its his first game. =P as well as what he is saying seems honest (which I know is hard to trust in this game) but I do believe in too noobie to be scum. its not an effective scum ploy.

My proposed Alignment: Town

Nacho. I always think its hard to judge someone with barely any posts. nacho seems to be stable with his 4 posts. comes in with questions for people and actively scumhunting. the only thing I don't understand is the vote for NcCage.

My proposed Alignment: Null

NicCage

Honestly, I don't see anything of substance. The self-vote was awful like they always are. the discussions it always causes are like wow and pointless. and other than that to me there has been nothing of use. something seems to be going on here.

My proposed Alignment. Null leaning scum. need to see more.

Pirate Mollie

From playing with her a few times in past experiences. I have come to find that this game is indicative of more town play than scum play. Of course thats just from like 5 games worth of data but still. It is what is currently leaning me town. I like that she seems to be apart of the game with 16 posts. She seems helpful and rational. and I guess I just need to see if she makes a scum move later in the game.

MY proposed Alignment: Leaning Town

[leviathan93]

therefore VOTE: nicCage

[Nachomamma8]

lol this might be offensive but i don't mean it to be.

that distinction came from when I learned pirate was a female. that explained away a lot of her apparent anger/frustrations at being accused of being a liar. I'll go back and reread her stuff though because it's getting annoying with her being completely disinterested in any further discussion.

and besides, everyone is over-playing how strongly i was willing to lynch pirate. my case on her was the FIRST case of the game. first cases are USUALLY WEAK. I knew this even while making the case, but I'm not the type of player who sits back and hopes that everyone else will get discussion going.

Also, a good amount of my town read on her is just based on a gut read..... the subjective kind of read that you can only get through having an intense discussion with someone.

I think that it's obviously stupid to go easier on someone for their righteous anger based on gender; two players here who I played with when I first started out are pretty famous for righteous anger as either alignment. But, I don't really think this has anything to do with you, so dropping for now.

In any case, you have completely missed the point of gene's post. I reread his post and he is absolutely not paranoid. He has essentially made a case that your 'who we gonna night kill nacho' post could lead people to ignore it based on WIFOM.

Why do you care so much whether he's paranoid or not?

I have a question for everyone: Do we really want to take 19 more days to decide who to lynch? I mean, I don't know how we'll be any better off in 19 days than we are now-ish. Then again, maybe I just want it to be tomorrow already so we can have new information by having one less person to be suspicious of.

It won't be 19 days, but it definitely should be more than 1 day. I'm not confident in who I'm lynching, and no one is even pretending to be anything different, sooo.

[mrbungle]

levi I don't like that list. you devoted a good amount of space to talking your town reads, but your main scumread, the person you voted for, is justified with a just few short sentences.

i don't specifically dislike that read, but can you give more info about it?

or at least, try to engage nic in some type of discussion? i'm feeling an amazing lack of care on your part concerning your main scumread

[leviathan93]

levi I don't like that list. you devoted a good amount of space to talking your town reads, but your main scumread, the person you voted for, is justified with a just few short sentences.

i don't specifically dislike that read, but can you give more info about it?

or at least, try to engage nic in some type of discussion? i'm feeling an amazing lack of care on your part concerning your main scumread

then don't like it.

I play by finding out who IS town. not who is scum. by whittling down the most likely to be town players leaves the rest to be where the scum are. That I have with my nulls and the null leaning scum.

i don't engage people in discussions because they just deny it. there is no point to that and that is just fluff. True discussions just happen not when you try to force them.

plus as I already said. not seeing much substance from his posts. thats a big scum tell in my opinion, but can't be the only thing looked at. I voted him. therefore thats where my pressure is. If he wants that vote off him he is going to convince either why he ISN"T scum or who else is BETTER likely to be scum.

[mrbungle]

also, levi is STILL soft-pushing for my lynch even though he's made it explicitly clear that he thinks I'm town. he's putting a lot of effort into discrediting my posts without addressing specific issues. he's even gone so far as to suggest me for a future lynch whilst saying I'm town.

and this stuff:

First of all, Id like to say that I am extremely busy. therefore I WILL be popping IN and OUT of games without much warning. I haven't had much time fully comprehend and post my thoughts on the matter. just add little bits of insight because I WANT to be helpful. but I guess if y'all would rather I never said anything at all I guess I could just not waste the effort to even do that. =P

absolutely reeks of scum-guilt

[leviathan93]

lol. I don't soft push. =P

I AM pushing for you death but not now. =P that is the truth. no guilt here. =)

[FLLhawk]

Why do you care so much whether he's paranoid or not?

I care only that mrbungle generated a read based on non-existent paranoia in gene's post. Thus, it's not so much the paranoia, but the fact that mrbungle used a mischaracterization of gene for his read.

[Nachomamma8]

Do you think that mischaracterization is obvious?

[gene1991]

also, levi is STILL soft-pushing for my lynch even though he's made it explicitly clear that he thinks I'm town. he's putting a lot of effort into discrediting my posts without addressing specific issues. he's even gone so far as to suggest me for a future lynch whilst saying I'm town.

and this stuff:

First of all, Id like to say that I am extremely busy. therefore I WILL be popping IN and OUT of games without much warning. I haven't had much time fully comprehend and post my thoughts on the matter. just add little bits of insight because I WANT to be helpful. but I guess if y'all would rather I never said anything at all I guess I could just not waste the effort to even do that. =P

absolutely reeks of scum-guilt

Interesting you say that, because for me, after I read leviathan's post there, I was thinking, omg, he's so far townsided. For me, that post was in town's best interest all the way. Maybe it was because he actually

wasn't

trying to accuse people of being scum with nothing to go on.
Even if you're town, and you're trying to accuse people just to see their reaction to get information to allow you to really know, well, that can be seen as scummy behavior too.

[Nachomamma8]

It can be seen as scummy behavior but it usually isn't.

[FLLhawk]

Do you think that mischaracterization is obvious?

Yes, it stuck out to me. What do you think of his rationale for a town read on gene based on what we knew at that point in the game?

[mrbungle]

also, levi is STILL soft-pushing for my lynch even though he's made it explicitly clear that he thinks I'm town. he's putting a lot of effort into discrediting my posts without addressing specific issues. he's even gone so far as to suggest me for a future lynch whilst saying I'm town.

and this stuff:

First of all, Id like to say that I am extremely busy. therefore I WILL be popping IN and OUT of games without much warning. I haven't had much time fully comprehend and post my thoughts on the matter. just add little bits of insight because I WANT to be helpful. but I guess if y'all would rather I never said anything at all I guess I could just not waste the effort to even do that. =P

absolutely reeks of scum-guilt

Interesting you say that, because for me, after I read leviathan's post there, I was thinking, omg, he's so far townsided. For me, that post was in town's best interest all the way. Maybe it was because he actually

wasn't

trying to accuse people of being scum with nothing to go on.
Even if you're town, and you're trying to accuse people just to see their reaction to get information to allow you to really know, well, that can be seen as scummy behavior too.

list posts, epecially ones with tons of town reads are SO easy to make. it's the easiest thing in the world for a scum to hide behind lists post and pretend to contribute.

and yes YOU HAVE TO ACCUSE PEOPLE OF BEING SCUM otherwise no progress will EVER be made.

think about a mafia mindset. what is their #1 fear? being lynched. what's a way for them to avoid being lynched? by not drawing attention to themselves (for example, hiding behind lists)

if you're viewing this game from the mindset of "lets all hold hands and never accuse each other" then you're never going to get anywhere.

Leviathan is not pushing his reads or attempting to interact with the thread... that is just flat out scummy behavior. He claims it's his playstyle so I'd have to be taking his word on that wish I dislike in general.

All that being said I've kinda lost interest in the leviathan lynch because based on they way he claims to play town, I can actually see a player like that thinking that lynching their town read is a good idea. Plus he's now provided many more reads than most people have, so

UNVOTE:

Now that leviathan is playing for real, nic cage takes the top spot of "people who are pretending to play but are actually saying nothing of value"

VOTE: nic

[mrbungle]

Do you think that mischaracterization is obvious?

Yes, it stuck out to me. What do you think of his rationale for a town read on gene based on what we knew at that point in the game?

it means i know how to read newbie towns and you do not

I say he is obviously paranoid and suspicious of things. You say he isn't. blah blah blah etc etc.

[NicCage]

Life's been busy, bear with me, I'll have something for you tonight or tomorrow

[mrbungle]

Life's been busy, bear with me, I'll have something for you tonight or tomorrow

would you kindly unvote yourself in the meantime?

[pirate mollie]

nacho are you ready to bus your scummate yes or no

I mean he is being really obvious

[mrbungle]

nacho are you ready to bus your scummate yes or no

I mean he is being really obvious

is there anyone you think is scum other than myself?

do you think nacho is scum for reasons that aren't based on unflipped association cases?

would you mind playing to your win-con? cos i'm town. i'm think that you are town. even if you think i;'m scum there is absolutely no reason why you should disregard everything that happens from now until the lynch

plus i'm not going to get lynched lol so you're just gonna have to stop repeating yourself. even if you think i'm scum, you shoudl still be able to find at least 1 more person you find scummy, no?