NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

bc why are you ignoring what we are saying about hanz

[Cephrir]

It seems clarifications are necessary. When I asked "are you suggesting Nacho is being bussed?" I was talking to Nero Cain (1424) who seemed to imply Bacde was bussing.

When I said I always like catch-up posts I meant big catch up posts full of reads (like thezmon's, and at the time I totally thought Kublai had done one but he actually didn't yet), though I suppose my comment about day-to-day play made this unclear. The two sentences were less related than has been assumed. I was reading Hanzo as nooby/confused town though I suppose nooby/confused scum is also possible. I'm gonna give him a few more posts before making a really definite judgment.

[Bacde]

bc why are you ignoring what we are saying about hanz

I'm not

I don't think I've figured out what to think about hanz

plus I really want nacho lynched so thats probably motivating me to not look at hanz so much

I think most of your points about hanz are valid though

[Bacde]

More arguing. More scum reads based more on meta than anything. More tells on D1...

cos scum like to steer the game

@BATB

Leaders like to lead town. Counter point: Scum like to myslynch leaders. Are you making a point to not be lead by anyone? or just thor.

^^Scum also like to lead town

What is your point Hanzo_5?

@Bacde

My point: They pointed out a useless tell. I think the best I can do D1 is pick out what are clearly bs reasons a fluffy posts. And give my stance on them when I get around to it.

How are we gonna get anyone lynched with bs like that being the reasoning? How can I trust a town that would pkay into that BS? rhetorical...

I can see Hanz being scum, but I'm wondering if he's just being misunderstood. Such as here, his first post is like a "WTF? are you even trying to say?"

But when I asked him about it, he had a somewhat coherent point, at least I think he did

I think his point here was that "leading the town" is a null tell; this was in response to you saying "scum like to steer the town"

I'm not sure you were using "lead the town" as a scumtell, and I'm not sure his comment was relevant to our scumhunt--but was his comment really scummy? I don't think so

I think his tirade of "how can I trust a town who...?" is misguided but not necessarily scummy either

[Om the Destroyer]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak

Om no we aren't lynching Bacde his slot is obvious town

~

[Om the Destroyer]

So from my POV this Nacho wagon consists of only townreads and it's on someone who isn't exactly a scumread from my.
Something is afoot here :/

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

Except I found the scum on the wagon.

I mean, this game has basically become whether or not Nacho should be a good lynch. The focus is completely on Nacho (who is probably town, actually) and nobody is really focusing on his attackers, or anyone else for that matter.

PEDIT: No fuck you Bulb is town omg I'll tell you why Bacde is scum in the QT.
VOTE: bacde

~Pertayter

[Nero Cain]

OM can I get a link?

[Bacde]

@B&TB

I think its a useless tell because its null. Town or Mafia can try and lead the town. Its what leaders do. Its a leader tell. And since leadership does not define allaignment its null.

My question asked simply asks this. Do you not want a leader?

Then it asks if you do want a leader, why do you not want thor to lead you?

The second questioned is ignored if you prefer that no one leads.

@B&TB

Fair enough. In my experience the mafia would rather have the town pointing fingers than having a unified trust in individuals.

Thus my line of questioning sees what you think in comparison to me.

FOS the shit out of this

Put ur damn finger away. If your to busy to question someone your suspicious of then dont say your suspicious. Its more fluff. How about u try to get a read on me instead of tunneling thor. FoS for asking questions about ur weak points. Stop making weak points.

Anyways for now ur just as null as everyone else. D1 is lame lets lynch someone.

<<< Fixed quote tag. >>>

the quoted post at the top is slightly scummy imo, because I don't see his line of questions going anywhere

BUT, his mindset seems townie to me. He isn't interacting with enough players to my liking, but he seems to have a train of thought, and actively attempting to make a splash upon his entrance, and isn't backing down from his points. Also it does not look like Hanz is even suspicious of you, he was just trying to emphasize that he thought "leading the town" was null

I want to see more posts from hanz

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

interesting

[Bacde]

So from my POV this Nacho wagon consists of only townreads and it's on someone who isn't exactly a scumread from my.
Something is afoot here :/

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

Except I found the scum on the wagon.

I mean, this game has basically become whether or not Nacho should be a good lynch. The focus is completely on Nacho (who is probably town, actually) and nobody is really focusing on his attackers, or anyone else for that matter.

PEDIT: No fuck you Bulb is town omg I'll tell you why Bacde is scum in the QT.
VOTE: bacde

~Pertayter

why aren't you asking me questions or even pushing my wagon?

its looks like you just dropped your vote and are chilling on it

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

[Om the Destroyer]

So from my POV this Nacho wagon consists of only townreads and it's on someone who isn't exactly a scumread from my.
Something is afoot here :/

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

Except I found the scum on the wagon.

I mean, this game has basically become whether or not Nacho should be a good lynch. The focus is completely on Nacho (who is probably town, actually) and nobody is really focusing on his attackers, or anyone else for that matter.

PEDIT: No fuck you Bulb is town omg I'll tell you why Bacde is scum in the QT.
VOTE: bacde

~Pertayter

why aren't you asking me questions or even pushing my wagon?

its looks like you just dropped your vote and are chilling on it

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

Why did it take you like 4 pages to finally question my vote?

[Om the Destroyer]

why aren't you asking me questions or even pushing my wagon?

Because you're town and Om needs a tongue lashing.

~

[Om the Destroyer]

So from my POV this Nacho wagon consists of only townreads and it's on someone who isn't exactly a scumread from my.
Something is afoot here :/

Yeah, probably your "Nacho ... isn't exactly a scumread". Herp derp Occam's Razor.

Except I found the scum on the wagon.

I mean, this game has basically become whether or not Nacho should be a good lynch. The focus is completely on Nacho (who is probably town, actually) and nobody is really focusing on his attackers, or anyone else for that matter.

PEDIT: No fuck you Bulb is town omg I'll tell you why Bacde is scum in the QT.
VOTE: bacde

~Pertayter

why aren't you asking me questions or even pushing my wagon?

its looks like you just dropped your vote and are chilling on it

if nacho flips town you are suspect #1

like seriously this is the first indication of a read on our slot that you've made since the

16th page

and it's literally an attack on me because I voted you.

~Pertayter

[Bulbazak]

AND YOU'D BETTER BELIEVE ME WHEN I SAY NACHO MAKES POSTS THAT SCREAM TOWN

I wouldn't say that's the case. I've played with town Nacho, and he still read null until near the end of d1. However, the posts still didn't "scream town", because we even questioned his alignment later in the game. As such, Nacho is normally a null read for me until he does something that allows me to sort him out more. His more recent posts are actually making me lean town.

1422 is probably the best iteration of the case against nacho as of right now

That explains why I don't like the case. It's a lot of crap. The whole thing is either a big case of confirmation bias or a very gutsy scum push. Still trying to make up my mind which.

actually I just reread BS's ISO and nothing really sticks out to me except this post:

Hmm.

I decided to check Nacho's posting history just to see what was happening, and spotted him browsing this forum.

Make of that what you will.

which I can't imagine making if I was town

@bacde

Care to clarify why town shouldnt do that? I dont see a problem with whistle blowing on the lurkers...

Does it look to you like Baby Spice was "whistle blowing" or does it look like Baby Spice was just throwing shit to see what sticks?

This reads as if you think/know that Nacho is town, since that would be the only way that Spice could be throwing crap to see what sticks. I wouldn't think that would be the case if Nacho was scum.

@Mastin

: When's the next vote count? I want to see what the status of the wagon's are.

<<< There were a grand total of two changed votes since the last votecount by this point. So much unchanged. >>>

@Om: What is your Bacde case? I want to see if we're on the same page here.

[EddieFenix]

Specify query on what exactly you want explained.

Mainly this:

The ones I am going after are either

A.) Players of interest to everyone (OS and Fuzzy)
or
B.) Player(s) that have my attention as far as MY interests go when it comes to my reading (Bulba, OS, Fuzzy, B&TB, Bacde, Nacho, Cephrir, etc.)

I wasn't quite sure where you were going with it.

A.) OS and Fuzzy are 2 of the 4-5 big names that keep coming up (other than Bacde's every page nacho push) as we continue deeper and deeper into day 1 that I have has null/scum. I'll ask questions and the game moves forward.

B.) There are players in this game that have MY attention. I'm reading everything they post and I'm calculating my own reads.

Which, if you don't mind my asking Bulba, did something change over the course of day 1 where Om was concerned?

[Om the Destroyer]

@Om: What is your Bacde case? I want to see if we're on the same page here.

His case is basically propaganda, focusing more on persuasion than trying to convince us of why he's scum. He seems to be trying to cherry pick from nacho's iso to find the best quotes he can use to prove his point further. Among that, his points aren't exactly solid either, they're either based on meta or just provide a quote with an implied questionable motive that just tries to influence our judgement further without him really having to give much effort (good example are his posts where he quotes a chain of nacho posts and goes "Does this look like nacho scumhunting to you?" without quoting any of his other posts where he does do that stuff. Really it's not hard to quote posts that don't fit a scumhunting agenda, you could do that for literally anyone this game). When his case is not that, it's basically just pushing a burden of proficiency argument (nacho is not this bad as town so he must be scum). Not to mention that half of his iso is basically just "nacho is scum plz everyone lynch him".
His main focus this game has been on nacho, so it provides a good excuse to distract from proper scumhunting, most of his other reads don't really have much explanation to them, and he's not pushing them anywhere near as hard as he is with nacho. The rest of his iso consists basically of fluff.
Also I'm not super strong on this one but he's also joking about him being scum too much, which in my experience comes from scum more often than not (I've done it before and I've seen others do it too).

~Pertayter

[Bulbazak]

Which, if you don't mind my asking Bulba, did something change over the course of day 1 where Om was concerned?

More of a change in interactions/relationships. I've been watching Oversoul connections and have been finding Ryu and Bacde increasingly scummy. With Om's recent desire to vote Bacde, I feel that the 2 are not scum partners. At the moment, I'd rather pursue Ryu/Bacde, as they are scummier than Om was.

P-edit: Plus I like that explanation. It reads genuine.

[Thor665]

You are being disruptive and not in a good way; disrupt the game by trying to divide town seems to be your gameplan.

Was I being disruptive by...questioning some wagons? Or something else?

D1 is not my day. I read mosy everyone as null. anyone can play to appear town. which is why we even have town reads. The lynch and reasoning behind it is all that will stand out to me.

@Thezmon

Your reasonless list is nothing but filler. To paraphrase you, you said "Hey im here and im doing stuff, Im not done yet so it looks like im not doing anything".

Im bringing this to light because I see it as fluff and everyone else should too.

Pot...kettle?
I presume you have a distinction here.

^ @Thor: This is what shows Mollie using her town reads to help her build reads. She's working with us and others and it's what she does as town.

I'll be honest with you.
This is a 50 page game or something.
You have 4 examples.
2 of them look like massive stretches to me.
Whassup?

Okay, let's even go with the theory that I meant logging off...what does that tell you about my alignment?
Y'know, since you're now implying I am lying about what I meant.

cos scum like to steer the game

And town...don't?

Also, how was that helping me steer the game?

Mwu-hahaha! I have fooled town into thinking I went to bed...the FOOLS!

I guess I had to escape all the massive pressure I was under from half the game calling me townish or something...what?

no. I answered the question.

You did.
But you lied via omission.

Because that's scummy as hell.

no its not. would you like me to post the post where you said I could not possibly be the cult leader in the cult micro game? cos that is what I was thinking at the time when bc asked that.

How is that remotely a rebuttal to what I'm accusing you of there?

Unvote: Red Ryu
Vote: BeautyAndTheBeast

[Amethyst Kitty]

Town reads, Town reads everywhere... and not a single reasoning attached to them other then Meta of my Partner... I'm a head of this Hydra too gaise

That being said, I'm currently playing catch up but

Bacde, leave Thor alone He is town this game. We both read him as such (I think)

Nero, I gave you that answer because I don't want to go back into set-up speculation. Mollie's point on you being an SK/Indie makes sense but you just pushed it away like it's nothing and called it terrible. Makes me wonder

ZMON, WAI ARE WE TOWN?

Jiffy, it's time to redeem yourself

VOTE: Cephrir

~Mara

[Oversoul]

Why were you voting Ryu in the first place Thor?

Where is Ryu anyhow?

[Thor665]

1. Because he was terrible.

2. Being terrible.

Any other silly questions?

[BeautyAndTheBeast]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bulbazak

Om no we aren't lynching Bacde his slot is obvious town

~

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but so is Bulba.

PEDIT: No fuck you Bulb is town omg I'll tell you why Bacde is scum in the QT.
VOTE: bacde

~Pertayter

@Mollie

- Hydra theatre?

Unvote: Red Ryu
Vote: BeautyAndTheBeast

Thor, I'm town. Vote Cephrir or Nacho.

Jiffy, it's time to redeem yourself

VOTE: Cephrir

~Mara

I am so hard right now.

VOTE: Cephrir

[ArcAngel9]

OMG, another 20 pages to go.. Will catch up today..

[Thor665]

Thor, I'm town. Vote Cephrir or Nacho.

What do you think of Mollie's recent posts?

[EddieFenix]

So, my next question is, why was there not a whole lot of change in your reads from pre-gambit reveal to post-gambit reveal? Was it because the players attitude stayed the same? Their play style stayed the same? What...?

I haven't given my full reads yet impart because I want to see people's responses to various things.

What "various things" are you talking about in specific?

Plus I am still fleshing stuff out.

Elaborate on this.

If you mean my town reads/scum reads on those players I just mentioned it does boil down to their reactions were something I more or less suspected and didn't really change much of my perspective on them.

Ok... Walk me through your PRE-reveal thoughts and reactions from those who rejected it and those who supported it. Those who you might be waiting on to respond, you can react as they come in and catch up.

Oooooooooooooooooversoul.... Oh OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVERRRRRRRRRRRRRSOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUULLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!! Answer me, drat you!!