NY 164: Maniacal Street Mafia (Anticlimatically finished.)

Bacde · Post Post #1500 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 5:58 am

after a reread of page 59, I actually think the Om/HD hydra is town for the schizophrenia

it looks like a legitimate argument, not fabricated

Desperado · Post Post #1501 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 6:23 am

In post 1500, Bacde wrote:after a reread of page 59, I actually think the Om/HD hydra is town for the schizophrenia

it looks like a legitimate argument, not fabricated

How is a legitimate argument indicative of being town? Looks to me like they just don't agree on their reads (which according to other hydra players in this game is the norm).

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1502 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 6:41 am

In post 1501, Desperado wrote:How is a legitimate argument indicative of being town? Looks to me like they just don't agree on their reads (which according to other hydra players in this game is the norm).

"I think we should call this guy scum."
"No, we should call this guy scum!"
"No, no, that's stupid. We need to attack this guy!"
>.>

Nachomamma8 · Post Post #1503 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 6:42 am

In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote:If you are town, do you know how stupid this is? You're basically saying you're willing to put town down -4 if you're wrong. Where's the town motivation in that?

Pride.

Amethyst Kitty · Post Post #1504 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 7:56 am

In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1486, Bacde wrote:I'm down to be lynched tomorrow if you flip town though
If you are town, do you know how stupid this is? You're basically saying you're willing to put town down -4 if you're wrong. Where's the town motivation in that?

Interestinggggg.

mastin2 · Post Post #1505 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:16 am

Votecount shortly.

Twenty-ninth Votecount

:

(

AKA, the "This is getting harder (no, not THAT harder)" votecount

)

Nachomamma8 - 5 (Red Ryu, Bacde, Nero Cain, Slandaar, Desperado, BeautyAndTheBeast)

Red Ryu - 3 (Oversoul, Bulbazak, Syryana)

Cephrir - 3 (Baby Spice, Amethyst Kitty, BeautyAndTheBeast)
fuzzybutternut - 2 (thezmon221, Cephrir)
BeautyAndTheBeast - 2 (Kublai Khan, Thor665)
Bulbazak - 1 (fuzzybutternut)
DLG - 1 (CrashTextDummie)
ArcAngel9 - 1 (DLG)
Desperado - 1 (Nachomamma8)
Bacde - 1 (Om the Destroyer)

Not Voting - 4 (Seanald, Hanzo_5, ArcAngel9, EddieFenix)

With

24

players alive, it's

13

to lynch.

Deadline is on Monday, May 27th, @ 11:30 AM PST, which is in (expired on 2013-05-27 11:31:59).

Spoiler: changes from last official votecount

Spoiler: Player Vote History

Spoiler: Voting History

thezmon221 · Post Post #1506 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:19 am

In post 1476, BeautyAndTheBeast wrote:
In post 1475, thezmon221 wrote:I personally don't have much experience with playing as a hydra, but shouldn't you guys like... be on the same page? Seems kind of strange you would go out and have a little root of confusion emitted there.
I've never been in a hydra where we didn't disagree on more things than we agree on.

I guess I was referring to where one explicitly defies the other and works on his own agenda for a post such as Om/Destroyer's most recent bout.

Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote:If you are town, do you know how stupid this is? You're basically saying you're willing to put town down -4 if you're wrong. Where's the town motivation in that?
Pride.

Screw pride. We don't need to be down -4 in two days.

ISO · Post Post #1507 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:28 am

Even if we did lynch Nacho and he came up town, we obviously wouldn't lynch Bacde anyway, so this discussion is kind of stupid.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1508 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:29 am

In post 1504, Amethyst Kitty wrote:
In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1486, Bacde wrote:I'm down to be lynched tomorrow if you flip town though
If you are town, do you know how stupid this is? You're basically saying you're willing to put town down -4 if you're wrong. Where's the town motivation in that?
Interestinggggg.

What's interesting about it?

P-edit: Why wouldn't we Cephrir?

Desperado · Post Post #1509 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:33 am

In post 1477, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1319, Desperado wrote:can you explain how you are using this as a scumtell (presumably?) on me when you just said this?
It was an explanation of the earlier post. He's not scumhunting that much, but he's definitely scumhunting.

This...doesn't answer the question I was asking you. You were talking about Baby Spice and said "Plus I think that her dismissing Thor and I as town instantly and with no paranoia at all is sort of strange and seems like fake townreads because they actually aren't based on anything." Basically saying her townreads are weak and sparsely supported, i.e. fabricated, which is exactly what I was saying about DLG's townreads. Except you said "he said DLG's townreads were surface and not good enough, but they were still townreads. It was still scumhunting, whether it was fake scumhunting or real scumhunting." So why is it ok for you to call out Baby Spice's townreads for being weak, but when I call out DLG's townreads for being weak, he's still scumhunting and I'm scummy for it?

And why did you ignore my first question? How did my accusation against DLG for voting AA for not scumhunting when he isn't doing any himself fall flat? We clearly aren't on the same page here.

In post 1319, Desperado wrote:Your final point about me either a) not reading or b) being a speed reader is just...weird. If I c/p'd all four of DLG's posts into Word, how many words do you think it would be? A few thousand? I can read multiple pages in ten minutes. Your assumption that I didn't read his posts because enough time did not elapse inbetween me saying I would and saying that they did nothing to alleviate my scumread on him just strikes me as a lazy attempt to discredit me. Have I given an indication elsewhere in this thread that I'm not reading it?
Depends on what you're looking for, I guess. I might be different, but I focus a hell of a lot closer on suspect's posting than everyone else, and reading DGB's post would take a little longer than that for me. I guess what I found strange was not that you read it that quickly, but that you read it that quickly AND decided you didn't see anything worth commenting on in that chunk.

Did you see anything worth commenting on? It was more of the same from my point of view, which I think was pretty clearly expressed in what I said.

In post 1319, Desperado wrote:One last thing...CTD proposed the mass claim that I'm scummy for "vaguely supporting" (what was vague about "I support a mass claim for all of the reasons Crash outlined in his big post about it", btw?) and his case on DLG is very similar to mine, yet you have him as town and me as scum. Can you explain that?
CTD didn't say that you vaguely supported massclaim, and his DLG case had absolutely nothing to do with why I found him town.

Good thing I didn't say that CTD said that? Read the sentence again. I said that CTD proposed the mass claim that you said I was scummy for "vaguely supporting" the idea of even though I was not vague about my position whatsoever. And are you sure that it had absolutely nothing to do with it? Because you said that "He also easily found other things to look at and didn't stall in coming up with scumreads and townreads," and I'm pretty sure his case on DLG falls into that category. If his case on DLG was good enough to prove to you that he was doing other things and coming up with scumreads, and it was very similar to mine, why is he a townread and me a scumread?

In post 1348, CrashTextDummie wrote:I question his current vote, not just because it's on someone I read as town and unlikely to lead anywhere, but also because there's a good wagon waiting to happen on his second choice, DLG.

I think that DLG and Desp are unlikely partners at this point
, so I'd rather take care of the stronger scumread first.

Well you're finally right about something.

ISO · Post Post #1510 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:39 am

In post 1508, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1504, Amethyst Kitty wrote:
In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1486, Bacde wrote:I'm down to be lynched tomorrow if you flip town though
If you are town, do you know how stupid this is? You're basically saying you're willing to put town down -4 if you're wrong. Where's the town motivation in that?
Interestinggggg.
What's interesting about it?

P-edit: Why wouldn't we Cephrir?

Because he's town and being wrong is not lynchworthy.

I feel like Nacho and Desperado are both stretching for some of their points. So far this doesn't feel as town v town to me as our other arguments have.

Nero Cain · Post Post #1511 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:41 am

you think they might be bussin?

Bulbazak · Post Post #1512 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:43 am

Cephrir wrote:
In post 1508, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1504, Amethyst Kitty wrote:
In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote: P-edit: Why wouldn't we Cephrir?
Because he's town and being wrong is not lynchworthy.

I feel like Nacho and Desperado are both stretching for some of their points. So far this doesn't feel as town v town to me as our other arguments have.

Why is Bacde town?

Also, if Nacho vs. Desperado is not town v. town, then what is it, and what are their respective alignments?

Desperado · Post Post #1513 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:44 am

In post 1510, Cephrir wrote:I feel like Nacho and Desperado are both stretching for some of their points. So far this doesn't feel as town v town to me as our other arguments have.

I wasn't aware I was making points that needed to be stretched for. Can you be more specific?

Bacde · Post Post #1514 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:51 am

In post 1503, Nachomamma8 wrote:
In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote:If you are town, do you know how stupid this is? You're basically saying you're willing to put town down -4 if you're wrong. Where's the town motivation in that?
Pride.

Does anyone else see how nacho makes a post like this, and then a bunch of townsfolk all say "WTF IT WAS PRIDE?! SCREW THAT! WE CAN'T LYNCH NACHO"

Trust me, nacho knows what he's doing, and nacho knows how to play scum

Guys, it wasn't pride

Pride has absolutely nothing to do with it

NACHO. IS. SCUM.

thats all there is to it

If ANYTHING, it has more to do with experimentation than pride, I'm experimenting with a new style

I like to call it "anti-scum to the extreme"

Nero Cain · Post Post #1515 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:54 am

Well I like this new style wich is what is giving me some reservations about you being town but meh...I agree with you so w/e

Bacde · Post Post #1516 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 8:56 am

Nacho isn't playing to "out his reads" or "find scum" this game, he's

manipulating people

(and he can do it with one word even as shown w/ the pride post)

that is not the way town-nacho plays

Look at these two posts intended to manipulate me using fear out of my push on nacho:

In post 1478, Nachomamma8 wrote:Mollie, Bacde, I'm not screaming at you guys for being idiots this game because you do have a point because I'm not exactly happy with my reads yet. It's not that I'm lacking motivation for this game and it isn't that I'm being useless (that's bullshit, Bacde), but I definitely am not being as aggressive and on point this game because I just don't have things worked out yet. I have a pretty good scumread in Desperado, a pretty decent town core, but I don't feel comfortable with the game to the point that I usually do. Although, Bacde:

In post 1459, Bacde wrote:if nacho flips town you are suspect #1
If I flip town, you're living in my scumlist for a while. You owe me that much.

In post 1483, Nachomamma8 wrote:Will you?

Also, why has he forgotten about this:

In post 1487, Nachomamma8 wrote:That's fucking stupid. I want you to follow my reads.

If he wants me to follow his reads, why isn't he pushing them harder? If he wants me to follow his reads, why does he keep saying to me "No you have a point I haven't been playing as well as I'd like this game"

Guys, excuses like that are scummy on their own. But when he simultaneously says that he's unhappy with his reads, but ALSO wants me to follow his reads?

Scum.

Bacde · Post Post #1517 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:01 am

In post 1501, Desperado wrote:
In post 1500, Bacde wrote:after a reread of page 59, I actually think the Om/HD hydra is town for the schizophrenia

it looks like a legitimate argument, not fabricated
How is a legitimate argument indicative of being town? Looks to me like they just don't agree on their reads (which according to other hydra players in this game is the norm).

what is the motivation for a scum-hydra to have an argument about their reads?

besides WIFOM-town reads from players like me

I mean he could be scum but its good enough for me to not lynch today

ISO · Post Post #1518 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:06 am

@Bulba:

Bulbazak wrote:
Cephrir wrote:
In post 1508, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 1504, Amethyst Kitty wrote:
In post 1494, Bulbazak wrote: P-edit: Why wouldn't we Cephrir?
Because he's town and being wrong is not lynchworthy.

I feel like Nacho and Desperado are both stretching for some of their points. So far this doesn't feel as town v town to me as our other arguments have.
Why is Bacde town?

Also, if Nacho vs. Desperado is not town v. town, then what is it, and what are their respective alignments?

Huh. I thought I had already laid out my reasons for that read, but I guess I've never stated them clearly. Even though I don't agree with his main line of reasoning, it's plainly genuine, I don't think anyone will argue with that. I liked his interactions with AA9 particularly and find he often puts my thoughts in better words than I did when he's not talking about Nacho. In my experience the overall tone of his Nacho push doesn't come from scum and he's taken a few inconvenient positions (admitting Oversoul could actually be scum, for instance, which seems detrimental to his argument, could have agreed to lynch me for a free vote tomorrow and backed off, didn't take the easy route and suspect Hanzo, and now offering to be lynched, which is something I think we'd only see if he were honest or bussing, and this isn't a bus)

Obviously I feel like Nacho or Desperado is scum (probably not bussing), and I haven't figured out which one it is yet. What led me to say that now is 1509- the first point seems pretty good and makes me feel like Nacho is using a double standard, but the third point sucks and is a huge reach.

Desperado · Post Post #1519 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:09 am

Pretty much just the WIFOM. My point is basically that there isn't motivation for either alignment in any direction because I don't think the argument was motivated by anything. It was a hydra arguing over its reads. They have been arguing all over the thread about a bunch of different things...so it speaks more to the way Om/HD approach the hydra than on their alignment, in my estimation.

Bulbazak · Post Post #1520 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:12 am

In post 1518, Cephrir wrote:In my experience the overall tone of his Nacho push doesn't come from scum

Why couldn't it?

In post 1518, Cephrir wrote: and now offering to be lynched, which is something I think we'd only see if he were honest or bussing, and this isn't a bus

I've seen scum say this when pushing town before.

Bacde · Post Post #1521 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:21 am

In post 1520, Bulbazak wrote:I've seen scum say this when pushing town before.

I've seen town say the same thing when pushing scum before

Bulbazak · Post Post #1522 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:29 am

In post 1521, Bacde wrote:
In post 1520, Bulbazak wrote:I've seen scum say this when pushing town before.
I've seen town say the same thing when pushing scum before

Point being that it's a null tell, and not the town tell that Cephrir says it is.

ISO · Post Post #1523 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:38 am

First point: That's mostly me saying 'gut' in more words.

Second: I mean I'm not saying it can't possibly come from scum I just don't think it's too likely.

Bacde · Post Post #1524 (ISO) » Wed May 15, 2013 9:48 am

bulbazak one of these days we are going to agree about a single read in our games

like seriously, one freaking read