Newbie 1391 - Game Over - FINALLY!!!

[StubbsKVM]

Fixed Quote tags. Apologies.

So, reads.
TOWN:
Gen_Wolf

In the end, I don't think this is a likely-Antagon scum move. My personal rules for listing are that newscum are most likely to have at least one buddy in null/null leaning listing, bus heavy scum are most likely to have at least one buddy in scum listing, protective scum are most likely to have at least one buddy in town listing. Idea behind newscum is that they don't want to leave obvious connections to their partners so they don't want to single them out with such an obvious connection, which is pretty much exactly what Antagon did to Gen Wolf here. Don't think he would fuck over his partner as he was going down this way since he showed at least a little respect for his partner by attempting to root out a PR before he went down.

Well, Antagon is not newscum. He's joined november 2012. I don't have any experience with him before, so anything he would do or wouldn't do is a big question mark for me.

Thank you, finally someone appreciating my post.

In the midst of a bunch of people attacking you, it seems unnatural for scum to immediately begin buddying someone who finally takes their side a bit. As scum, it means that you did something right in that person's eyes and you don't really want to do anything to fuck it up, so it ended up coming across as more of a "thank you for showing that my side has validity" more than anything else.

Cornered as he was, Gen Wolf could have reached out like this, so he could get some help getting out of the situation he was in. This is not alignment indicative to me.

You oaks are so far off who scum actually are they just not killing because your doing the work for them.

This comes from such an extremely paranoid place that I seriously doubt it could be coming from scum.

Not really. This thought process was initially why I reconsidered my read on Generic. It proved to be false.

Honestly, I obviously want town to win. However, if it came to it and after some discussion people are unsure I would rather have them lynch me than potentially expose a PR or what not. I'll take a bullet for the team in that regard but I just encourage everyone to use the time we have.

This is also really, really town and not the type of post that I think scum-Gen is capable of faking.

Or it could be a last attempt to shift our opinion on him.

On a more general note for Flay's play, play between here and what we're seeing now seems very different.

I would still like for someone to explain how I'm being 'inconsistent'. I'm seeing a lot of bare claims designed to delegitimize me, but nothing actually provable.

I'm on my phone right now so no big post, but I am at L-1 is that right? Somebody better have a GOOD case...

My predecessor definitely had some dumb things to say (including not wanting to lynch Antagon), so if I still look like a good lynch by the end of the Day, so be it.

From my limited understanding of Flay as scum, he takes an aggressive stance towards people who suspect him, which is something he started out with upon replacing in (suggesting playstyle), but then dropped it immediately after reading the game. I don't think that scumFlay is the type of player to posture for the "oh just kill me if my predecessor was too scummy"; he wouldn't bring that up in the first place, would try to get his foot in the door with the analysis posts he made and defend Gen as scummy but still town.

His suspicions as scum are also not really fleshed out so well; he tends to control rhetoric as opposed to actually try to sort people out. He's hoppy, he's opportunistic, he's pretty much a classic scum player in that respect. But certain things lately have seen extremely genuine, in a way that scumFlay can't (or didn't) replicate in that previous game; he didn't focus on lurkers for lurking, he focused on making people who should be centers of attention, and the latest "I will not hammer Generic" would require himscum refusing to hammer a townie when as scum he has pretty much every reason to.

Overall, I might be giving Gen Wolf too much credit and underestimating Flay-scum, but the slot seems town town town to me and I have serious difficulty imagining them flipping scum.

I have no previous experience with Flay. And I'll admit that his play has been pretty good. But I fear that he is just an excellent player and has the ability to come back from the position he was in.

---------------------------------------

So basically, from all of the arguments you made, there isn't one that makes me think that he is 100% town.
Sure, it's possible. But I still doubt it.

Karnage/Miss Stranger has been a strong townread throughout this entire game. And then all there's left is me and you.

So for me, choosing between Flay and Karnage is still easy. Unless there's something huge I'm missing in my Karnage read?[/quote]

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Prodding champ.



Vote Count 5.2

Mr. Flay - 1 (champinoman)

Not Voting - 4 (Karnage, Mr. Flay, Nachomamma8, StubbsKVM)

3 to Lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2013-08-27 07:00:00)

.

[Mr. Flay]

But I fear that he is just an excellent player and has the ability to come back from the position he was in.

This is so common it has a 'name': "Lynch Flay Just In Case". All you're doing is saying you have no refutation, but I MIGHT be scum. Which, while true from your perspective, is utterly useless information.

Why is Karnage/Stranger such a strong townread for you? For me it's closer to null... they say nothing egregiously wrong, but nothing super amazingly town, either.

[StubbsKVM]

But I fear that he is just an excellent player and has the ability to come back from the position he was in.

This is so common it has a 'name': "Lynch Flay Just In Case". All you're doing is saying you have no refutation, but I MIGHT be scum. Which, while true from your perspective, is utterly useless information.

Why is Karnage/Stranger such a strong townread for you? For me it's closer to null... they say nothing egregiously wrong, but nothing super amazingly town, either.

Well, it's not so much Karnage's content, but Miss Stranger's.

We are at the point where I have to choose between 2 people.

So it's not so much "let's Lynch him just in case", because according to the plan, there's a chance I'll have to vote Karnage tomorrow anyway.

[champinoman]

Weekend got the better of me again. Bloody bucks weekends...

I see that we are speeding this day up nicely with nobody even placing a vote.

[Mr. Flay]

It's kind of moot with you two driving the bus.

[champinoman]

It's kind of moot with you two driving the bus.

Well everyone has said that they are happy to follow the plan.

Flay: Why are you not voting Stubbs after saying he was your best choice?
Stubbs: Why are you not voting Stubbs after saying he was your best choice?
Nacho: Why have you not placed a vote on who you find scummier out of Stubbs and Karnage? (you said you consider Flay the least likely)
Karnage: Why have you not placed a vote on who you consider the next scummiest after Nacho?

It's irrelevant whether or not these initial votes lead to a majority. We need to see where everyone sits so that it doesn't become a last minute panic to get someone lynched.

[StubbsKVM]

We still have 8 days, and I like the fact that we're discussing our reads.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Prodding Karnage.

[Mr. Flay]

It's irrelevant whether or not these initial votes lead to a majority. We need to see where everyone sits so that it doesn't become a last minute panic to get someone lynched.

We know who my choice would be - I've already said, in 817. Voting does NOTHING until you two make a choice, and it's not like anyone in this game is going to quicklynch with 5 alive. Just look at yesterday... there was a solid building wagon on Nacho for inactivity, and when he came in, everyone fell in line.

[Karnage]

If we aren't going to lynch nacho today then VOTE: Mr Flay

[StubbsKVM]

Nacho, I would like to hear your thoughts again before the hammer.

[champinoman]

It's irrelevant whether or not these initial votes lead to a majority. We need to see where everyone sits so that it doesn't become a last minute panic to get someone lynched.

We know who my choice would be - I've already said, in 817. Voting does NOTHING until you two make a choice, and it's not like anyone in this game is going to quicklynch with 5 alive. Just look at yesterday... there was a solid building wagon on Nacho for inactivity, and when he came in, everyone fell in line.

So you are not voting to avoid a quicklynch that you said isn't going to happen? I asked for your votes to see who was reluctant to place them.

[Mr. Flay]

*shrug* That's not what I said at all. I said NO ONE is going to quicklynch, on anybody, in this fucking game. One living scum is not going to quicklynch anyway.

So say that I VOTE: StubbsKVM. What changes? I've said three or four times he's my first pick for non-Nacho scum. No one else is voting him. What have you learned??

I don't mind voting him, but I don't see what it accomplishes at this point in time.

[Nachomamma8]

Well, Antagon is not newscum. He's joined november 2012. I don't have any experience with him before, so anything he would do or wouldn't do is a big question mark for me.

It's an unlikely move, and I see nothing from his meta to suggest otherwise.

Cornered as he was, Gen Wolf could have reached out like this, so he could get some help getting out of the situation he was in. This is not alignment indicative to me.

Cornered? It was Page 5.

Not really. This thought process was initially why I reconsidered my read on Generic. It proved to be false.

What do you mean by this?

Or it could be a last attempt to shift our opinion on him.

Mellow. JMO must just vote me then end the game. You have a very good way of making the games un-entertaining.

Anyways, I am ready for the almighty twist. I see the newspaper headlines tomorrow "Tamuz replaces in to get an almost perfect scum win". People will be shouting your name from the rooftops. People will be speaking of Newbie 1381 for centuries. This game will set a precedent throughout mafiascum that will overshadow any past achievement ever ascertained on this site. They will speak of how you fought to the very end. You will be a scum legend among scum, a ultimate victor among victors. One day, in my children's history class they will speak of Tamuz, the almighty mafiascum player who was so good he fooled everyone by creating fake numbers to ascertain 'who was scum'. When the numbers did not work, it was through no fault of his own, obviously, but rather the fault of the townie who did not act townie enough. They will praise you, worship you, honour you. For you are the almighty Tamuz.

Anyways, that is how I feel about this game. Sad that it has come to this but glad the end is in sight.

You see, I know I am not scum and yes if I want to speak from a negative perspective I will. At the end of the day it makes no difference, ultimately I could say "I know I am town" but you see Tamuz, I am town unlike you. Now, saying you have played a better game than me to convince JMO you are town and I am scum would be a lie. You played a harder game than me, and that I can admit.

This is Gen Wolf's last resort. Rife with AtE and cheap potshots. I didn't see that here.

I have no previous experience with Flay. And I'll admit that his play has been pretty good. But I fear that he is just an excellent player and has the ability to come back from the position he was in.

Maybe, but what suggests that's the case? What makes Karnage/Stranger town?

[Nachomamma8]

but Miss Stranger's.

Explain.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho: Why have you not placed a vote on who you find scummier out of Stubbs and Karnage? (you said you consider Flay the least likely)

I wanted to talk to stubbs a little bit first.

Vote: Karnage

What do you think of my Flay town case?

[Nachomamma8]

It's kind of moot with you two driving the bus.

There's no real reason to drive a powerlynch bus today, is there?

[Mr. Flay]

Huh? I don't know what that means, but champino is still conf town. Why would I trust anybody else? I've made my case, and seen nothing from Stubbs to make me want to change my mind since.

[Nachomamma8]

driving a powerlynch bus means that we vote, everyone follows. as in the bus we drive will be going over 80 miles per hour and whoever it makes contact with gets crushed and instantly dies.

the bus we're driving today is more akin to a bus through a swamp; we'll go a little slowly so the bus is only going to kill people who get pulled under the muck because no one is willing to get their new boots dirty saving them.

[StubbsKVM]

Just adding stuff through reading.

Antagon

^
gets called out for lurking, and when actually posting, adds nothing besides explaining backseat hunting.
First actual input at post 174. Congratulations.
That vote on Nacho was really bad.

champinoman

First actual post looks good.
That reads list (138) looks weird. "Everybody is scummy" and "Generic is leaning town" doesn't match.

Feel It

looks at other games to get a read on Gen_Wolf and says exactly what I think. Good.
seems like there's some suspicion on this guy. My gut says this is wrong.
Calling town "the town". That's a possible scumtell.

Fegelein

^
His reads worry me. Gen Wolf isn't scummy, but Nacho is?

Gen_Wolf

^
wants a hammer at post 20? And he's supposed to be SE?
Next post and he says he isn't serious. It's a reaction test. That's a crappy reaction test for a newbie game. Imagine all newbies agreeing and voting. That would have been bad.
Now he says his post was "clearly a joke". I don't agree, this is a newbie game. Asks why SE is different from being a complete newbie. Is this another joke?
His vote for Fegelin when Antagon and Nacho are under pressure makes up for something though. Looks like he's not choosing the easy way out by joining a wagon.

Generic

His first posts says he won't say anything yet. Weird.
Not liking his reaction to Nacho voting for him.
That reads post is very, very good. Town
Post 224 is good.

Miss Stranger

can't make up my mind about her in the early posts.
That large post looks like actual hunting and deserves some town credit. Lots of questions too.
Congrats on the pregnancy. Good luck! I can relate to how you feel. I have twins
Your posts are hard to analyse because of their length and massive quoting. I find myself getting distracted and skipping parts. I see you've taken a little offense at people commenting on them. If I wasn't catching up 10 pages, I probably wouldn't have mentioned it

Nachomamma8

*
Loving his first posts. This looks exactly like my first game with him, in which he was town.


Needless to say that I probably missed some parts. This took me a long time to read. I thought 10 pages was easy, but those posts were looooooooooooooooong.

now let's see what I posted here.

Antagon: I don't trust this guy at all. He adds nothing, but decides to put Nacho(who is a null-read on his list) at L-1 when things get dangerous.
Champino: I have a hard time reading him. I'll give him a scum lean, based on my gut feeling.
Feel It: Is actively scumhunting and posts stuff I generally agree with. I may have to reread on him on the L-1 situation, pretty sure I missed some points there.
Fegelein: that comment I put there was from one of the early pages. There's something about him that just doesn't feel right.
Gen Wolf: Those comments were pretty horrible. His being less active later on resulted in votes moving away. I'm not convinced he's town, but I will not chase him today.
Generic: Town. No point in explaining further.
Miss Stranger: Town. I like her commitment.
Nachomamma: His day 1 looks exactly like my earlier experience with him where he was town. Lynching this guy over meta? Who suggested this and why?

So: town to scum:

Generic
Miss Stranger
Feel It
Nachomamma
Gen Wolf
Champino
Fegelein
Antagon

VOTE: Antagon

These were my reads lists from day 1.

So: Good Scumhunting, Committed, asking a lot of questions.
I don't really want to go all over her posts again to quote what was town when and why.

[StubbsKVM]

Miss Stranger has struck me as very, very town for this entire game. I've liked her T/S scum lists, I really liked her pick up on Antagon, I've liked her questioning... now it might be because I'm a bit tired after all of that, but I think the Miss Stranger read is one that is shared by pretty much everyone (save Gen Wolf) and so doesn't need much explaining.

SCUM

champinoman
Mr. Flay
Feel It
Generic
Stubbs
Miss Stranger

TOWN

I'm fine with massclaim with the caveat that the tracker should claim VT unless the tracker sees some information that doesn't mesh with results OR Doctor claims first. One of the combinations we need to watch out for is Tracker/One-Shot Bulletproof which would be really bad to massclaim, and this means that we'll be pretty set even if we have this setup.

Why do I need to explain it anyway. You've called her your biggest townread yourself.

[Nachomamma8]

Why do I need to explain it anyway. You've called her your biggest townread yourself.

I did. Have you ever experienced a stale townread before?

[StubbsKVM]

Not really no.
Explain?

[Nachomamma8]

A stale townread is when you have a townread on this guy for doing some townie things during the game which you can't really remember, then you lynch some people you find scum and they flip town and it's time to do a hard reset. If people haven't done things to renew their townread, then the townread gets "stale" and you should probably go through their posts and remember why you thought they were town again, maybe even talk with them a little bit and make them reassure you themselves. Think of what happened at the end of Arc's game.